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  1. #1
    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    Transformation, thought I was doing great, today I saw otherwise. critique (HELP) pls

    I had made this post as my workout journal a while ago. Haven't updated it since 5/5/06. Old link below - it has my older pictures for comparison to the ones below:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=774744

    *any and all critique is welcome, even if its harsh, just dont be a dick about it.*
    *Critique muscle mass vs fat, routine, diet, etc please. thanks!*

    21 years old, jr in college

    I'm 5'9 and weigh around 150. Today for some reason I weighed in at 147 or so as 150 has been my lowest lately.

    Graduated Sr year of hs at 120-122 lbs. Ectomorph but I had a belly and fat on my chest that kills me (I've always had that pubescent gyno and it's never gone away. Once I drop my fat I'm getting lipo - I've been waiting for that since I started visiting plastic surgeons at 15, 6 years ago). Played ice hockey for 9 years but was still always skinny and fat at the same time.
    Gained my freshman "15" or so and that put me to 135. Would work out for about a month every 6 months but have to stop because I'd always injure myself. Now, I've been studying quite a bit and my room is stacked with material, books and bb magazines.

    Now last year in my sophomore year, I was 139 with 17.1% bodyfat. 6 weeks later I was rougly at 155'ish, give or take a couple of pounds in either direction. Weeks 2-3 I was sick with the Flu and then bronchitis back to back so then bulked for 4 weeks. I got up to 163 and then met my girlfriend stopped lifting for 3-4 months this summer. I started lifting in september but this time it was different. I also took stimerex-es /ephedra this summer and went from like 162-155 but I guess I didn't lose much fat after all, water.

    ---------
    Diet:
    ---------
    My diet consists of 4 grilled chicken breast sandwhiches on wheat bread per day, each individually throughout with 1 gal water or close. This is in addition to 4 ON whey shakes (@ 2 scoops = ~50g protein=200g/day). I currently take 50mg adderall xr in the morning, and 20 mg normal dose in the evening (I have really bad diagnosed ADD and I'm finally taking it so I do well in school.) It destroys my appetite but I force myself to eat. Doesn't it speed up your metabolism? That's good for me, right? I've been trying lean out. Comments on that would be appreciated. How about lifting while under it? I took a 10mg and lifted yesterday, can focus on form/contractions better than something crappy like NO-xplode

    grilled chicken breast sandwhiches on wheat (unsure of amount of protein/carbs/fat in these. does anyone know?)
    - Without knowing that I have no idea how many calories or protein I'm taking in, aside from my whey shakes.


    Supplements:
    ON Whey 50mg protein/shake
    animal pak multivitamin
    omega 3-6-9 three times a day
    BCAAs
    l-arginine & orinthine
    krealkalyn 1500 creatine.

    Ebol starting next week.

    I'm really confused, I don't know how much progress I've made if any, since then. Am I going backwards? I thought that I had my diet in check, i eat cleanly, am doing AM cardio (on empty stomach) for the first time and 2-4 times a week at that, and have been using good form, and have been lifting hard to regain everything. Ahh. I hope to look good for spring break. Last year I went down to south padre with my bb'er buddies and everyone there was ripped. I didn't take off my shirt and when I came back from that break I decided to change myself and get into the bb'er lifestyle. This year, my girlfriend and I are going there for spring break and this time I hope to take my shirt off so she won't be walking around with a skinny fat man. She's going to get into lifting with me in the spring.

    It's a very, very clean diet. Good wheat/complex carbs with a grilled chicken breast 4 times a day for the nice addition of lean protein (mustard for flavor as it isn't bad for progress. In addition, one 50g whey upon waking, one 30 mins prior to workout, 1 immediately after (followed by 45 mins later chicken+wheat), 1 before bed (trying to replace it with a casein). Cheat meal 1x/week.


    I'll list my current strength for reps w/o sacrificing form and my (previous repping strength in parenthesis but mediocre form.)

    I get 8-10 hours of rest for sure on mon night/tues, wed night/thurs, fri night/sat/sun


    Monday: Back/bis: Lat pulldowns 90 lbs (135), cable rows 105 (165), db rows 60 (70), tbar rows 70, preacher curls bar+30, & cable curls 20
    Tuesday: AM cardio 40 mins low intensity 3incline 3 mph or 30 mins 6 incline 3 incline 5.5 mph always on an empty stomach.
    Wednesday:Shoulders/traps: db press 45 (45), front db raises 15 & 10 (20 plateau long time), side delt lateral db raises (25), rear delt lateral db raises (30), shrugs 45-50 (65
    Thursday: AM cardio low intensity , evening: legs: squat 135 (155), leg press 180 (180), hamstring curls 60-70 (100), leg extensions 90 (165), seated calf raises 110 (145)
    Friday: Chest/Tris: Incline db 50-55 (65), flat bb 115 (155), decline bb 95 (135), cable xovers 40 (40), machine flys 60 (100) or dips (+45 lbs @ 163), tricep pulldowns 120 (140)
    Saturday & Sunday: AM cardio

    I put my ego aside and dropped the weight drastically. I was much stronger last may than I am now so im just counting on the muscle memory to kick in, while i drop the weight and work on form while eating cleanly and doing things properly and work on symmetry. My strength on everything is pretty much back to normal and is even going higher, but my muscles endurance is lower than it was then.

    I just feel (now that ive seen the pictures) that I haven't really lost any fat in the last two months. I've been working my ass off and trying so hard, especially with school (last time i trained this hard last semester i had like a 2.0, this time i have a 3.5 with my new quality approach to training)

    Here are my progress pics. The pictures #1-2 were taken on sunday after 2 days of moderate drinking and 4 days off. I haven't had a drink since last fall, except maybe 3 times since I turned 21 this august. (my old ones are in the link listed above. I got up to 163 and now im 150)

    *older pics in link above to see how crappy i looked*

    Oh, and sorry for the lame quality of the poses, I'm new to that lol.

    Picture #3+ were taken today after doing back/bis. Strength went up again and I hadn't slept in 40 hours [I'm taking 21 credit hours and its rough. I know my sleep is off sometimes and thats bad.] lol :
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    Last edited by sicdeusvult; 10-31-2006 at 01:14 PM.
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  2. #2
    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    sicdeusvult is offline
    What do you think my bodyfat % is? 147-150 lbs, 5'9

    Any comments and critique absolutely appreciated.


    Oh and I know my legs suck. I just started working them as I've always neglected doing them.
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    Last edited by sicdeusvult; 10-31-2006 at 07:15 AM.
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  3. #3
    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    sicdeusvult is offline
    More (edit!):

    Picture #4 is me at 120 lbs skinny fat. That's how I looked before I started lifting.
    Picture #5 is me this summer a month after I stopped lifting. May 25 was the pic.
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    Last edited by sicdeusvult; 10-31-2006 at 07:21 AM.
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  4. #4
    OK, here in this video Ujjay's Avatar
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    You look like 16-18 percent bodyfat.

    Here's some advice that's hard to take. Lift only 3-4 days a week. I know it may seem like you'll get less results, but it actually works.
    The goal of bodybuilding is to look like a bodybuilder. Period. Not "I just wanna be toned" or "I wanna be strong screw abs." If you don't look like a bodybuilder and don't aspire to then GTFO. Stop worrying if you should cut or bulk, or whether a food is clean or dirty. Instead ask yourself "will this make me a better bodybuilder?"

    ~ZYZZ CREW~
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  5. #5
    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    sicdeusvult is offline
    lift only 3-4 times a week? I do, and then the rest it's either an off day or cardio. andas high as 16-18%? jesus
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    Amateur Natural CeeGee's Avatar
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    no cardio if you want to grow. Or MINIMAL. 40 minutes is way too much.
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  7. #7
    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    it's 30-40. I'm not looking to grow, I was kind of trying to lean up/cut by eating clean and doing cardio in addition to lifting heavy. My bodyfat is too high to bulk again so I was hoping to get to 10% before I did it. I bulked last year when my bf % was too high.
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  8. #8
    Truth JayWesson1's Avatar
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    This is just my opinion but your diet looks pretty clean but you dedication to the Gym is what is killing you. Taking months off at a time isn't going to help you and it is going to set you back. Also the comment about not sleeping for 40 hours is a definate problem. Your diet and training can be spot on but if you are not getting sleep then your body can not recover properly. Just be dedicated to your training, diet, and recovery and with time you will see better results.
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  9. #9
    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    sicdeusvult is offline
    Originally Posted by JayWesson1
    This is just my opinion but your diet looks pretty clean but you dedication to the Gym is what is killing you. Taking months off at a time isn't going to help you and it is going to set you back. Also the comment about not sleeping for 40 hours is a definate problem. Your diet and training can be spot on but if you are not getting sleep then your body can not recover properly. Just be dedicated to your training, diet, and recovery and with time you will see better results.

    Thank you. I just put some lipo-6 (I don't like the ephedra/stimerex-es. It's too harsh) and L-Carnitine 250 in my shopping cart to help out. Should I stick with something as hard as stimerex-es or lighter as lipo-6? Stimerex-es gave me the ****s, *bad* every time I took it (3x a day) and I hear lipo-6 does the same.

    Yeah my dedication was a little off, but summer was a time for me to get some old habits out of my system (a lot of smoking). I'm not stopping again.
    Last edited by sicdeusvult; 10-31-2006 at 08:05 AM.
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  10. #10
    Banned md3sign's Avatar
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    K I'm too lazy to read the whole thread, but where is your leg day!?!?

    Want mass? Squat. No other excersize comes close for overall mass. Add deadlifts too. You're young - unless you have some injury or an unable to do them for whatever reason, you should be doing both. They are serious mass builders and for someone in your position I think they would help a lot. You might want to go on a different program altogether. I was on Rippetoe for 4.5 months and put on 40+ lbs, 30+ of which I believe to be muscle (check sig for journal).

    Also, any reason why you're taking ephedra/ebol??? At your height/weight you should be able to make some serious gains without all that. Just eat more, get your 8hours/night and fix your program. Get as close as you can to 200, then and ONLY then would I recommend taking stims/hormones.
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  11. #11
    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    sicdeusvult is offline
    Originally Posted by md3sign
    K I'm too lazy to read the whole thread, but where is your leg day!?!?

    Want mass? Squat. No other excersize comes close for overall mass. Add deadlifts too. You're young - unless you have some injury or an unable to do them for whatever reason, you should be doing both. They are serious mass builders and for someone in your position I think they would help a lot. You might want to go on a different program altogether. I was on Rippetoe for 4.5 months and put on 40+ lbs, 30+ of which I believe to be muscle (check sig for journal).

    Also, any reason why you're taking ephedra/ebol??? At your height/weight you should be able to make some serious gains without all that. Just eat more, get your 8hours/night and fix your program. Get as close as you can to 200, then and ONLY then would I recommend taking stims/hormones.
    My leg day is on thursday (I squat) in the evening, after I do low intensity cardio in the AM. I've been dying to do deadlifts and thats my wet dream as a bb'er (well, i try atleast) but my best friend who is also a trainer says that I don't have the form down and will hurt myself. This xmas he's going to lift heavy with me and we're going to do more compound movements. I've looked into the rippetoe program and will be starting that after Xmas once he helps me run through the proper form next month.

    Well, I'm not on ephedra now but as I've been eating cleanly and lifting well and doing cardio but my fat is still reallly high. Much higher than I thought it was before when I was fatter and got my bf % by my trainer. I'd like to eat more, last semester I put on like 25 lbs in 7 weeks by eating 4000 cal, 300g protein, 180g+ carbs but I'm so fat bro that it just hurts. I'm transferring to my girlfriends school next year and when I meet her friends, I want to be in shape without a gut so my girl can be proud of her guy and not have some chubby guy with her. I'd like to look like I actually take care of my body. With clothes on everyone say's that its obvious that I lift because I look big somehow with clothes on, but when I'm naked I'm just ashamed.

    Ebol because I wanted to accelerate my muscle memory's recovery while gaining strength on my cutting diet.

    Should I up the intensity of the cardio? HIIT again? Keep it low intensity? I don't know what to do, I'm so lost now. I thought that I had it all down and that I was doing everything great but now I feel fatter than I was before, despite my weight on the scale dropping. I don't know what to do.

    Have I made progress? I felt that I was in the "best shape of my life" until I actually saw these pictures. Atleast I "felt" that way, but not anymore.
    Last edited by sicdeusvult; 10-31-2006 at 08:29 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Ok a few things:

    1) About the deadlifts, that's bull****. You're never gonna learn proper form until you do them. Get Starting Strength, it teaches you WAY better than anyone on here can. Lift in front of a mirror. Start with just the bar and work your way up. Deadlifts are extremely rewarding and make you feel more badass than any other excersize IMO.

    2) You can't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, it's impossible. So pick one. If you're going to do Rippetoe starting next year, you can spend the rest of this year researching and cutting. High intensity cardio (HIIT or not), caloric deficit, high protein/low carbs/low fat diet. Do it right and you'll lose a few points of BF easy.

    Otherwise if you want to bulk, get Starting Strength now, take a week to read it (and take it to the gym with you so you can reference it) and just stick with your clean diet and put on mass. Your fat will still be there, but the extra muscle will still make you look good. Keep in mind between roughly 11-18% bf you look the same.

    So make a choice. I'd get on Rippetoe. It's cold anyway, you're not going to be wearing tshirts, and the lard will keep you warm Regardless you'll need at least a month to cut before beach season.

    edit: if you're interested check my sig for my journal on Ripptoe

    and this: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=923892

    my progress in 4.5 months on the program. my bf probably went up 7-9%, but I still look a lot better than I did due to the increased muscle mass
    Last edited by md3sign; 10-31-2006 at 08:39 AM.
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    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    sicdeusvult is offline
    Originally Posted by md3sign
    Ok a few things:

    1) About the deadlifts, that's bull****. You're never gonna learn proper form until you do them. Get Starting Strength, it teaches you WAY better than anyone on here can. Lift in front of a mirror. Start with just the bar and work your way up. Deadlifts are extremely rewarding and make you feel more badass than any other excersize IMO.

    2) You can't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, it's impossible. So pick one. If you're going to do Rippetoe starting next year, you can spend the rest of this year researching and cutting. High intensity cardio (HIIT or not), caloric deficit, high protein/low carbs/low fat diet. Do it right and you'll lose a few points of BF easy.

    Otherwise if you want to bulk, get Starting Strength now, take a week to read it (and take it to the gym with you so you can reference it) and just stick with your clean diet and put on mass. Your fat will still be there, but the extra muscle will still make you look good. Keep in mind between roughly 11-18% bf you look the same.

    So make a choice. I'd get on Rippetoe. It's cold anyway, you're not going to be wearing tshirts, and the lard will keep you warm Regardless you'll need at least a month to cut before beach season.

    1) All right that's good to hear. I'll get one of my competition bb buddies here to show me when they're not busy. They lift early though when I can't get a chance to get to the gym.

    2) I know that I can't do both at the same time. Right now, that's what I'm doing though. I'm trying to cut but not too hard as I want to preserve some muscle mass without losing too much.

    "High intensity cardio (HIIT or not), caloric deficit, high protein/low carbs/low fat diet." That's what I've been doing though and until these pics I felt like I was making progress. Did that for two months man. I'm going to continue and now harder than ever but I'm a bit disappointed. Thought I looked better.

    edit: Haha, funny enough it was your journal that made me want to do it when I was looking for a new program.
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    md3sign is just really nice. (+1000) md3sign is just really nice. (+1000) md3sign is just really nice. (+1000) md3sign is just really nice. (+1000) md3sign is just really nice. (+1000) md3sign is just really nice. (+1000) md3sign is just really nice. (+1000) md3sign is just really nice. (+1000) md3sign is just really nice. (+1000) md3sign is just really nice. (+1000) md3sign is just really nice. (+1000)
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    About the fat/muscle thing. You're right that you can preserve muscle while losing fat, or keep fat the same while gaining muscle. But you can't increase muscle while decreasing fat (though you can do the opposite lol). So cut or bulk. I wouldn't expect much (if any) strength or size gains if you're cutting though.

    Check updated post for links and info.

    Seriously, you're skinny. A BP split like you're doing is probably not the best thing. You need to hit your larger muscle groups and hit em hard to increase your overall test levels.

    Best thing about Rippetoe (or any other full body compound-based split) is that you'll learn to perfect your form and when you then move on to a more advanced program, you'll still be doing all those same compounds (just with less volume) and they'll come second nature.
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    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by md3sign
    About the fat/muscle thing. You're right that you can preserve muscle while losing fat, or keep fat the same while gaining muscle. But you can't increase muscle while decreasing fat (though you can do the opposite lol). So cut or bulk. I wouldn't expect much (if any) strength or size gains if you're cutting though.

    Check updated post for links and info.

    Seriously, you're skinny. A BP split like you're doing is probably not the best thing. You need to hit your larger muscle groups and hit em hard to increase your overall test levels.

    Best thing about Rippetoe (or any other full body compound-based split) is that you'll learn to perfect your form and when you then move on to a more advanced program, you'll still be doing all those same compounds (just with less volume) and they'll come second nature.

    Well the ebol was for dealing with the "I wouldn't expect much (if any) strength or size gains if you're cutting though." I'm really looking foward to the rippetoe split. I thought my split was pretty decent but I guess not lol (bad rotator cuffs so I try to do things that don't put em at risk). My chest is too fat, the plastic surgeon even told me to lose weight ;(
    Last edited by sicdeusvult; 10-31-2006 at 08:55 AM.
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    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    Well, fat talk aside I guess but how's my muscle mass? I think that my left side is under developed while my right is better. Have been trying to work on proper form and on the left side's contractions too. People in person tell me that they like my back, how is it? My left lat is noticably smaller I think. How big do my arms look? My legs blow but i never used to work them until now. shoulders? chest (ugh).



    Oh and what the hell is the deal with my skin. Looking at my back photos it looks totally scarred and the pigmentation is all weird. The skin texture looks weird as hell too, wtf??? I had back acne as a teen but i dont remember having enough to scar *that* badly. wtf??
    Last edited by sicdeusvult; 10-31-2006 at 10:10 AM.
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    http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

    I've decided that compound movements are the way to go. I'll be starting this program.
    Last edited by sicdeusvult; 11-01-2006 at 07:16 AM.
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    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=947306

    Tossing melting point in there to minimize fat gains while bulking.
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    Across the pond! PhreEkGarden's Avatar
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    Looks like its takin you alittle bit to get all sorted and everything, get on the program and you will see nice gains.
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    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    Yeah it took me a while. I finally chose rippetoe and i'm loving it. log below:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...9#post12661799
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    You need to add some fat to your diet, it will help your hormone levels (which appear to be off). Also, not sure if I'm reading correctly, but are you taking three 50 gram protein shakes? That combined with the 4 chicken breasts is a pretty excessive protein consumption for your size. Ease up on the wheat buns too.

    Since you seem to be concerned about image, I think you'd get better visual results by adding size while keeping body fat in check. I'd aim for 15 calories per pound of bodyweight. 1 gram protein/pound, 20% of calories coming from fat, and the rest from carbs. For you at 150 pounds this works out to 2,250 calories(150 grams protein, 50 grams fat, and 300 grams carbs).

    For training I think you're doing too many exercises. Concentrate on fewer exercises per bodypart and try to increase pounds or reps a very small amount every week. Keep it simple.
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    Originally Posted by sicdeusvult View Post
    More (edit!):

    Picture #4 is me at 120 lbs skinny fat. That's how I looked before I started lifting.
    Picture #5 is me this summer a month after I stopped lifting. May 25 was the pic.
    It's a bummer you have a nice build if you could lose the love handles
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  23. #23
    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dpman View Post
    It's a bummer you have a nice build if you could lose the love handles
    Thanks bro, I've been working my ass off since I made this post. My log below (on page 2) has updated pictures. Feel free to comment there if you would like, it would be appreciated too.

    Since then, I have been taking melting point, ebol, and halodrol liquigels, in addition to doing the rippetoe program. I am now weighing around 146-147 and am at 13.5% bodyfat, give or take a little (but under 14 for sure), as opposed to being 149-150 and 17% or greater bodyfat.

    I've been having *tremendous* success with it so far.

    Link to my current log:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=959027
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  24. #24
    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PassTheChicken View Post
    You need to add some fat to your diet, it will help your hormone levels (which appear to be off). Also, not sure if I'm reading correctly, but are you taking three 50 gram protein shakes? That combined with the 4 chicken breasts is a pretty excessive protein consumption for your size. Ease up on the wheat buns too.

    Since you seem to be concerned about image, I think you'd get better visual results by adding size while keeping body fat in check. I'd aim for 15 calories per pound of bodyweight. 1 gram protein/pound, 20% of calories coming from fat, and the rest from carbs. For you at 150 pounds this works out to 2,250 calories(150 grams protein, 50 grams fat, and 300 grams carbs).

    For training I think you're doing too many exercises. Concentrate on fewer exercises per bodypart and try to increase pounds or reps a very small amount every week. Keep it simple.

    Actually I took your advice to heart and my caloric & fat intake has been in the range that you have said, and I've been having AWESOME success! Appreciated, and as I said to the poster above, the following link is to my new log + progress pics (pics on pg 2):

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=959027
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    Yo ese you dont look bad homes.

    Try the guerilla cardio instead... its hard, but alot shorter and more effective, than moderate cardio. You may aswell do it if you're already doing cardio in the AM on an empty stomach.

    I havent done it myself but its just science, and this style of training is becoming popular.

    This is how it's done:

    ~ 4 mins warmup

    !!4 mins of guerilla cardio:!!

    20 seconds run high intensity ~ 10 seconds rest = 30 seconds
    Perform this 30 second interval 8 times = 4 mins

    ~4 mins cool down.

    Total: 12 minutes.
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  26. #26
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    thanks
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    Was the last pic supposed to be a lat spread??
    Hello
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  28. #28
    Registered User sicdeusvult's Avatar
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    which pic?
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