My keto thread about not losing weight

[klootzak]

Hello, after posting in another stalled weight loss thread I thought I would create my own thread since I'm having difficulty losing weight on keto. I'm now 3 weeks into the diet (actually 2 1/2 weeks) and I have actually put on 4 pounds since I began, so now I am a bit worried that the diet is not working for me or that I'm doing something wrong. I'm 25 years old, 6' 190 lbs (194lbs now) and probably 20% bf. I've been as low as 145 lbs in my adult life however I have never really been that fit or muscular. I should also mention that I had my gallbladder removed about a year ago (most likely from being a a low fat diet. I was vegan for a long time... very thin with no muscle..) It was full of small stones and gave me crippling pain after random meals.


My excerise routine consists of lifting dumbbells 3 x a week and doing HIIT cardio when I wake up on alternating days. Currently I am following the body sculpting routine specified here http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hugo22.htm I do 3 sets of each at 12 reps minus the leg excercises. I will move onto the more advance stuff in probably 2 weeks. (after 2 months of the body sculpting routine) For legs I ride a stationary bike 20 minutes at a pace where my heart beats at 145bpm. On alternate non lifting days I do 20 minutes of HIIT cardio, riding the bike at a moderate pace for 1 minute then going 20 seconds as fast as I can go. I've done this consistanty 1 month an a half adding in the HIIT this week. Previously I onlu did cardio at a moderate pace (145bpm) for 45 minute intervals every other day.


My typcical keto diet day is like this

Meal 1
2 whole eggs cooked in 1tspoon of butter, 4 slices nitrate/nitrite free uncured bacon + Omega 3 oil

Fiber + Spirulina + Vitamin C crystal shake

Black Coffee

Meal 2 - Chicken breast cooked in olive oil + either 2 oz of cheese or 1/4 cup of almonds

(Lifting days PWO shake Whey Suppliment 17g protien, 3g splenda, 15g dextrose)

Meal 3 - Same as meal 2/ or maybe a burger or steak + cheese

fiber shake

Meal 4 - same as meal 2 + flax oil

Fiber Shake + spirulina

Each meal is about 500 calories each. My lean bodymass is probably like 160 lbs, if even that, so thats around what the CKD calculator suggests for me. One thing I should mention is that I have a fairly innactive lifestyle outside of the excercises I'm doing. I work at a desk in front of a PC, at home no less, so I'm not out and about that much doing basic everyday cardio.

I am also aware that I should do 6 meals but even 4 meals I'm in the kitched every other hour almost. I also simply do not really have the appetite for so many meals a day. If anyone has any advice in this regard or perhaps some quick (as in no cooking but grab and go) meals I am open to suggestions.


Some things to note:

I bought a new whey suppliment that contains 3g of splenda per serving. Last week as I took the suppliment my ketostix readings were much lower than when using a suppliment containing 14g of frucose. This may or may not be due to drinking more water and using creatine though I am starting to think maybe it's kicking me out of ketosis. I am unsure how this would be possible since 14g of frucose should have more of an effect than 3g of splenda.

I've been using garlic powder on my meats. I guess garlic contains a lot of sugar naturally and I use quite a bit of it.

I've been chewing on trident gum (after every meal, pretty much in excess..) which contains Xilytol, a sugar alcohol. I read on here last night that this kicks a lot of people out of keto. I had no idea.

I purchased a few new suppliments such as Spirulina and Vitamin C crystals. I am unsure if either of those would kick me out of ketosis. Though spirulina isn't meant to have many carbs. I'm unsure about the vitamin c crystals. Would they contain that citric acid that diet sodas contain?

I've also purchased melatonin lozenges to aid with sleep. They are a mint type that sits under the tounge to dissolve. They say nothing about carbs or sugar though they are sort of sweet. I feel that they do help me with sleep though!

So it appears I inadvertantly introduced a lot of variables that could kick me out of ketosis. I've stopped the trident gum as well as the garlic power. I've spent probably $50 on different whey suppliments that may or may not kick me out of ketosis. The first was Trader Joe's whey power. It has 14g of frucose but my keto readings were always strong when using it. It also contains a lot of multiviamins... I switched for the reason it contains frucose. The splenda whey is vitamin shop whey that contains BFAAs and no frucose. My ketostix readings went really low after using it with creatine... Unfortunately I'm out of ketostix waiting on some new ones so I am unsure where I'm at now.


If anyone knows how I could get the ball rolling with this and start to see some results I would appreciate it. My goal, in regards to my weight, is the be thinner with lean muscle. I've always had fairly weak fleshy muscle tone, even when I was very thin. So ideally I would like to be 165lbs -180 lbs with like 8-12% BF so nothing too extreme. Once I reach this point then I will start to think about the extremes

[jaim91]

I am also aware that I should do 6 meals but even 4 meals I'm in the kitched every other hour almost. I also simply do not really have the appetite for so many meals a day. If anyone has any advice in this regard or perhaps some quick (as in no cooking but grab and go) meals I am open to suggestions.

Could yo uinput your diet into fit day so we can see the macros? It may be easier to gauge what you're missing or have in excess.

Easy snacks: Cheese strings, veggie and cream cheese, beef jerky, tuna/sardine in a can...there are others.

[klootzak]

grams cals %total
Total: 2487
Fat: 160 1440 59%
Sat: 52 466 19%
Poly: 20 181 7%
Mono: 75 677 28%
Carbs: 3 10 0%
Fiber: 0 0 0%
Protein: 246 985 40%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%



Hmm looks like I might be taking in too many calories. If I were to cut out one chicken breast a day that would give me about 2000 calories. I need to think of a replacement meal though.

[jaim91]

grams cals %total
Total: 2487
Fat: 160 1440 59%
Sat: 52 466 19%
Poly: 20 181 7%
Mono: 75 677 28%
Carbs: 3 10 0%
Fiber: 0 0 0%
Protein: 246 985 40%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%



Hmm looks like I might be taking in too many calories.

What are your maintanance cals? Are you taking your main. and subtracting 500 to get what you should be having?

[klootzak]

Fitday.com is great

I see that I was taking in about 500 calories more than I thought I was and have now been able to tweak the diet a bit

[klootzak]

The BMR calculator CKD calculator say BMR: 1991
BMR+Activity: 2389
Target BMR with diet: 1911

With lower activity.

[jaim91]

So if you maintanance is about 2500 then aim for 2000. You could take out the protein because that's very filling, and if you already have a small appetite, you don't really need it

[chimponarope]

Are you definitely in ketosis bro?

[Eileen]

What strikes me is that you need to work your legs. I know you cycle, but no amount of cycling can replace squats. Legs can take (in fact, need) an awful lot of abuse, and they are a huge muscle group. You can do all the dumbell curls in the world, if you are not doing squats and lunges and deadlifts, you won't see results.

For a 25 year old, cycling for 20 minutes at 145bpm won't cut it. That's the minimum you need to stop you keeling over from heart disease, and it's nothing like what you need to get cut. Even your HIIT isn't intense enough. I suggest you do one minute flat out (and I mean balls to the wall), followed by one minute recovery. Do ten of those, and after a week or two, start increasing the sprint intervals.

I would cut all all the shakes except for one whey and dextrose shake after lifting. Don't add Splenda to anything. Cut out all the gum and lozenges and anything else except basic keto food. If your diet is clean and you are working out hard, the ketostix don't matter.

[chimponarope]

Eileen hit the nail on the head!

[klootzak]

Hmm I'm trying to avoid having some massive quads haha. I know it sounds strange but I'm trying not to go for having the body builder type body at this point. I do some dead lifts for my lower back though but I have been avoiding squats.

When I do 20 minutes at 145 bpm I do that after 1 hour of lifting the dumbbells.

When I do HIIT (1 minute followed by a 20 second sprint) I do it first thing when I wake up on an empty stomach. Right now it's about as much as I can do and I really feel it afterwards. I do that for 20 minutes. I'm not sure if I could sprint for one minute straight at this point. I have never been good at endurance cardio BTW. I'm kind of amazed I can do HIIT for 20 minutes straight though I'm sure the moderate carido I've been doing for months has really helped.

Before I did any of this my sole excersise routine was to ride 45 minutes @ 145bmp every other day. All of what I'm doing now has basically branched from that and from being sedentary for years.

I see according to fitday.com that my diet was kind of skewed. I was taking in almost 600 more calories than I had though (and perhaps even more since I would add in fat like heavy cream occasionally because I didn't think I was getting enough fat in)

I used fitday and was able to come up with an ideal diet though. The whey shake I have came with splenda already in it. I guess I will experiment some more once I get more ketostix. I'm taking the spirulina as a vegetable replacement BTW and the fiber for obvious reasons. I will try without the spirulina and again once I get more ketostix.


To chimp.

I have been in and out of ketosis. The first two weeks seemed to have been working but after my first carb up things just seemed to have fallen apart. I ran out of ketostix and I'm currently waiting for a replacement. I do feel as though I'm in ketosis now though just since I am aware of my body's response and feeling once it reaches ketosis.

[Eileen]

Unless you have freaky genetics, you won't get massive quads without lifting some seriously heavy barbells over a long period of time. If nothing else, a few sets of squats will burn extra calories.

HIIT should be really hard, but short. You'd be better doing 10 minutes of really intense HIIT than 20 minutes of half-assed. Try to hit 95% of max heart rate (185bpm) on your sprints.

On keto you are burning fat anyway, there's no point in fasted cardio. Eat something first, then work harder.

If you always do 20 minutes at 145bpm, your body will adapt and you won't feel the benefit of it. Change your routine. Try jumping rope instead.

[chimponarope]

Like Eileen says huge quads don't just appear

What was your carb up like? Could be a lot of the problems you're having.

[JayKid]

If it was easy to get massive quads while losing weight then many people would love that.

However, it's not that easy and it's almost downright impossible (maybe with good genetics). You might get some more toned looking legs, but you will not gain mass on your legs and lose fat everywhere else... it just doesn't really work that way for the most part. It's hard enough for people trying to add mass (whether it's to their quads or upper body) to do so. Trust me you will not get huge quads with squats. So do them.

[jaim91]

Trust me you will not get huge quads with squats. So do them.

Somebody tell Ronnie and Jay that

[JayKid]

Well, I think ya were being sarcastic with that one... but if not I meant that they don't just do squats and get huge legs, not that easy (if only it was, right?). They eat A LOT and have lifted for years and take supps and what not.

[klootzak]

My carb ups have been sort of sloppy.

I'm not a world renown cook or anything so I have very little experience in this area. My first carb up I had stuff like pizza rice and some apple pastry things full of sugar

Second carb up I kept it clean pretty much but it was still kind of sloppy. I had a bag of fat free pretzels, 2/4 a cup (2 servings) or raw steel cut oats, a bag of air popped popcorn, 2 russet potatos, 2 boxes fat free waffles. Oh yeah, 2 pints of duvel beer.

I'd be open to any suggestions regarding a good 2000 cal carb up diet as well. I guess I should probably limit it to the night of the depletion work out to mid day the following day as well.

[chimponarope]

Well, I think ya were being sarcastic with that one... but if not I meant that they don't just do squats and get huge legs, not that easy (if only it was, right?). They eat A LOT and have lifted for years and take supps and what not.

Haha yeah! Big quads don't come easily, even with good genetics.

[jaim91]

My carb ups have been sort of sloppy.

I'm not a world renown cook or anything so I have very little experience in this area. My first carb up I had stuff like pizza rice and some apple pastry things full of sugar

Second carb up I kept it clean pretty much but it was still kind of sloppy. I had a bag of fat free pretzels, 2/4 a cup (2 servings) or raw steel cut oats, a bag of air popped popcorn, 2 russet potatos, 2 boxes fat free waffles. Oh yeah, 2 pints of duvel beer.

I'd be open to any suggestions regarding a good 2000 cal carb up diet as well. I guess I should probably limit it to the night of the depletion work out to mid day the following day as well.

If you want tasty carbs and not feel too guilty, then mix oats with brown sugar and cinnamon, or sweet potatoes with sugar free maple syrup, or a white baked potato with melted cheese.

You could also eat carbs with sugar alcohols in them (quantity of carbs vs. qualitiy). Just make sure you watch the fat content because usually they load foods with sugar alcohols up with fats to make up for the lack of taste, lol

[klootzak]

I think I've finally discovered a nice effective balance. I'm also saving some money thanks to that fitday.com site. I was taking in way too much protein before, my fat intake wasn't very well calculated and I was eating close to 600 calories more than I had thought. (the thought of putting the work into calculating and preparing every meal I eat is something I wanted to avoid, however I now understand the tremendous benefits of such a thing... the $ saved and otherwise...)

Anyways, I have lost all the excess water weight. Obviously I was retaining too much water, and not properly shedding fat. I think I've found the two primary causes of this as well. Apparently, the vitamin C crystals I was using knock me out of ketosis. The xylitol in the trident gum I was chewing also seem to have been knocking me out of ketosis (I’d have a pack or two of this a day, constantly chewing it after every meal)

I'm taking in just under 2000 precise calories a day now. This actually feels more correct to me compared to the 2500 I was taking in before. I don't know if I already mentioned this but at 2500+ calories I felt like I was overeating. I had to force myself just to eat that many calories.. Now at 2000, my appetite has increased, and I feel hungry throughout most of the day. . Anyways I have lost all the water weight from the last carbup. My energy is a bit weak though so I'm going to get some energy supplements and do large, more varied carb ups. Maybe I will start introducing more calories if I continue to feel tired or weak.

[jaim91]

I think I've finally discovered a nice effective balance. I'm also saving some money thanks to that fitday.com site. I was taking in way too much protein before, my fat intake wasn't very well calculated and I was eating close to 600 calories more than I had thought. (the thought of putting the work into calculating and preparing every meal I eat is something I wanted to avoid, however I now understand the tremendous benefits of such a thing... the $ saved and otherwise...)

Anyways, I have lost all the excess water weight. Obviously I was retaining too much water, and not properly shedding fat. I think I've found the two primary causes of this as well. Apparently, the vitamin C crystals I was using knock me out of ketosis. The xylitol in the trident gum I was chewing also seem to have been knocking me out of ketosis (I’d have a pack or two of this a day, constantly chewing it after every meal)

I'm taking in just under 2000 precise calories a day now. This actually feels more correct to me compared to the 2500 I was taking in before. I don't know if I already mentioned this but at 2500+ calories I felt like I was overeating. I had to force myself just to eat that many calories.. Now at 2000, my appetite has increased, and I feel hungry throughout most of the day. . Anyways I have lost all the water weight from the last carbup. My energy is a bit weak though so I'm going to get some energy supplements and do large, more varied carb ups. Maybe I will start introducing more calories if I continue to feel tired or weak.

As you get further and further into keto, you start to learn what your body respond and adapts to. Congrats on learning so quickly! It can only get better

[Max Protein]

Somebody tell Ronnie and Jay that

Amount of juice and hGh those guys have been ingesting, they would probably have developed their huge quads with leg extensions.

[klootzak]

I also wanted to mention that aside from my weight loss stalling a bit, I do believe I added muscle and have become leaner when I was taking in too many calories previously.

My jeans are too loose on me this morning and my midsection definitely looks more cut. I can't wait to see what happens in the next couple months.


BTW I actually do have big quads already. They're gotten larger just riding my stationary bike! I think I will hold off on legs until my upper body becomes more cut.

[jaim91]

Amount of juice and hGh those guys have been ingesting, they would probably have developed their huge quads with leg extensions.

BLASHPHEMY! Jay is all natural...nothing in him but the supplements MuscleTech makes (or something...)

[Eileen]

BTW I actually do have big quads already. They're gotten larger just riding my stationary bike! I think I will hold off on legs until my upper body becomes more cut.

Get a second opinion on that. It's hard to see your own quads clearly. I think mine look huge, but other people comment on my slim legs!

[chimponarope]

BTW I actually do have big quads already. They're gotten larger just riding my stationary bike! I think I will hold off on legs until my upper body becomes more cut.

If you do then you obviously have VERY good genetics for building legs, biggest I ever got mine from just cycling (and I mean proper mountain biking for hours a week) was about 26", with weights they've been upto 29". I guess it depends on your own definition of huge legs, to me anything under 30" is still kinda average on a guy.

[chimponarope]

Amount of juice and hGh those guys have been ingesting, they would probably have developed their huge quads with leg extensions.

Tell me you're joking bro.

Just look at the local gear monkeys in your gym there might be one with decent legs, all the gear in the world won't build a decent physique without the ass busting training regime to go with it.

[Max Protein]

Tell me you're joking bro.

Just look at the local gear monkeys in your gym there might be one with decent legs, all the gear in the world won't build a decent physique without the ass busting training regime to go with it.

Well put. But it seems leg extensions and maybe two heavy sets on the leg press are all they're worth...I mean when I'm natural and I'm squatting 300lbs for reps and you're on roids and shying away from the squat rack because of 'it hurts my knees' or whatever, then you got problems man.

[Tuxd]

Hmm I'm trying to avoid having some massive quads haha.

I have the same problem klootz. My calfs too. I think it is my genetics, I pack fat around my lower body more than my upper. So my legs I always feel are more chunky.

One thing that has really worked well for me is that during my bulk phase I did work on them a little bit with low weight high reps. I also did eliptical and stair climber work and indeed they retained good size.

Then during cutting I neglected them altogether except for a few minor sets between my upper body excercises just to give my upper body rest. My legs have gotten smaller because of this during my cut.

I chose this strategy because I knew I could start my cut with more lbm that way just to have a higher bmr but with the full intention of letting it get chewed away during my cut. As soon as I get to lower bf where those trouble spots are gone I believe my initial bulk up again will make those areas look alot nicer and I'll be speedo ready somewhere like 2-3 weeks of lean bulking/maintenance after my cut.

Hope that helps.

[chimponarope]

Well put. But it seems leg extensions and maybe two heavy sets on the leg press are all they're worth...I mean when I'm natural and I'm squatting 300lbs for reps and you're on roids and shying away from the squat rack because of 'it hurts my knees' or whatever, then you got problems man.

Sounds like the typical ones in my gym. If they train legs it's 2 sets of presses with some warm up weight, yet i'm the freak for squatting 450 naturally.