For the last time you CAN'T BURN MUSCLE

[JohnAppleQbee]

Muscle is flesh. Your body does NOT use flesh for calories. So when you cut and "lose" muscle remember that was not muscle. Probably just water and glycogen. True muscle stays with you for years and years.

[WSUPTHEO911]

What you are speaking I have read before.. I told that to a friend (who is a sponsored body builder) and we went back and forth for hours. When people say they are losing muscles, it is the water in the muscles, not the actual flesh... Great posting I support this one................-Theo

[firstmark]

Actually when the body is not getting enough calories and starving the body will break down muscle to generate calories.
Proten can be used for caloric needs.
First the body stops building back muscle when it is damaged from work though before it begins actively breaking it down for survival calorie needs.

[JohnAppleQbee]

If it is pure muscle it would've never been lost in the first place.

[WSUPTHEO911]

So what you are saying is if you body does not get enough food, you will become skin and bones (literally) I mean even the most skinniest person in the world has muscles.. But what you are saying is even those muscles will turn from flesh to just skin??? Right

[JohnAppleQbee]

No I'm saying your fat and glycogen reserves in the muscle will get used up. If you stop eating completely you will just drop and die.

[WSUPTHEO911]

I was talking to the guy that said you will lose muscles.

[John Henry]

Originally posted by JohnAppleQbee
Muscle is flesh. Your body does NOT use flesh for calories. So when you cut and "lose" muscle remember that was not muscle. Probably just water and glycogen. True muscle stays with you for years and years.

Of course you can. It is called catabolic state. Prove me wrong.

[Pie-Bald]

The body will not build or maintain muscle it does not need. If you stop lifting or reduce your lifting weights, the body will adjust accordingly. It takes a lot of energy to maintain large amounts of muscle. It would be too inneficient for the body to maintain muscle thats not needed. So, yes the body will absolutely consume muscle tissue. You ever see someone who has been bed ridden for months? Not a whole lot of muscle left.

[JohnAppleQbee]

I started out at 195 and now weigh in at 215. What's it take to get to 235? Will "pumping up" do the job? Onced pumped, will it go away if the training is not continued? One thing I notice about the muscle size I have gained is that it doesn't shrink or decrease when I get sick and miss a month of training: Measurements and weight stay pretty much on the money. Is this true for Bombers?

Yes, I know. Your weight is pretty stable and even if you go out of the gym for a couple of weeks its stays pretty much the same. The first time I encountered this phenomenon was when I started training with a friend of mine who used to be a power lifter and now is a bodybuilder. I noticed that during final exams week (we used to study engineering together) when we would take a couple of weeks off to just concentrate on studying, he would stay the same and I would shrink. I started doing some research on the subject and this is what I found:

The body grows in two ways:

1) Hypertrophy caused by an increase in energy substances in the muscle cell (such as creatine and glycogen). This type of hypertrophy is caused by training that is high in volume (8-12 reps) with limited rest in between sets. This type of training enhances growth hormone output and lactic acid production. (If you stop training that is the reason that the muscles shrink so fast. The amount of the stored substances inside the muscle cell just go back to normal and the muscle shrinks).

2) Hypertrophy caused by an increase in the diameter of the muscle fiber (actual muscle growth). It seems that this type of muscle growth stays longer after a period of no training than the first type. I don't know if there are any studies out there that will back this up, but based on empirical evidence, this seems to be the case. This type of growth is caused by training that emphasizes long rests in between sets (3 minutes) and low reps (5-8). This type of training enhances testosterone level output. It seems like it takes longer to achieve this type of growth than the first one, but it is well worth it.

[MOD]

your muscles atrophy, they don't disappear ( although there are disease that actually destroy muscle tissue ) . all you can do is increase or decrease the size of the fibers, you can't change the quantity. although there is the theory of Hyperplasia that states that a muscle can also adapt by increasing the number of fibers it contains, this however has not yet been proven.

also when you cut, you will also lose intra muscular fat, which will also decrease the size of the muscles, along with the loss of water, glycogen, etc.

[Sonny]

The actual "burning' of muscle applies to the sarcomeres, myofibrils etc. in the fiber, thus reducing the size of the fiber. So I agree that muscle fibers never disappear, they just decrease in size!

[Ghetto boyz]

i have heard different from you. I heard and i know this is true, muscle is energy and so is fat so when you are exercising and eating enough it burns your fat away.If you are exercising to much for the amount you are eating it takes away from the muscle first because the fat it more important to protect the body.So your body will burn away your muscles then move on to the fat, but that is only if you arent eating enough

[Ghetto boyz]

thats why when people starv themselfs they lose alot of muscle. You can got on all you want about what you think but i am talking from personal experinces and i just went through this with all my teachers and i even had to go to the doctor

[drewbie 51]

What happens when you eat protein, like chicken, tuna, steak, ect. you are eating the muscle of the animal. Your body will break this muscle, or protein down into amino acids. your body will then take these amino acids to rebuild parts of the body, particularly muscle, or if you dont supply your body with enough energy(carbs, or fat) your body will use the amino acids as energy. The same thing happens when you diet, especially improperly, your body, knowing its in a caloric defecit, will turn your muscles back into amino acids to use as energy, and as a way to lower its caloric maintenance. It does this by turning your muscle back into amino acids. If you feel like being a know it all, please respond

[drewbie 51]

Although I will admit that its easier for people to gain back muscle back, but Its still no true that you can lose muscle

[TESTOSTERONE]

Originally posted by JohnAppleQbee
Muscle is flesh. Your body does NOT use flesh for calories

Tell that to the victims of the holocaust

[The Rob]

how long does it take to go in a catabolic state?

[MOD]

I'm searching for the study that I read on this, I'll post it when I find it.

[shpongled]

your body can cannibalize muscle tissue. period. no ifs, ands, or buts about it. you speak from personal experince, about how taking weeks off doesn't make you any weaker. well good for you. if you're getting properly fed, you won't lose muscle. but are you starving? your personal experience is not a universal truth.

here is the body's energy preferences, in order. these categories are GENERAL, it can happen in a different order.

1. glycogen stores
2. fat
3. muscle
4. internal organs

like i said, these categories are general. if you starve yourself for 24 hours, your body will begin to cannibalize internal organs, but that doesn't mean it's already used all the muscle and fat tissue. likewise, your body will begin using muscle tissue after about 4 hours of starvation.

"flesh" is a pretty general word. your body is made up of different kinds of tissue. adipose tissue, muscle tissue, and so on. in addition, each of these kinds of tissue has many different types. you are oversimplifying an extremely complex system.

david

[Ghetto boyz]

actually my personal experience is universal truth because last time i check doctors have to go to university, And ya i was sort of starving myself. I had weight training in the morning for and hour and a half then boxing for 3 hours and i wasnt eating enough. If you think any different then go ahead but your WRONG FACE IT!!!!!!!!!!

[T800]

Originally posted by The Rob
I went from 95 lbs to 280 RIPPED in 5 weks eating ONLY eggs, so don't talk to me about hard gainers! (PS: I can deadlift 3 cars and a bus AND I can squat Roseanne)

LMAO Great signature! I can believe the 280 in 5 weeks... I can believe the deadlifts with cars... but noone can squat Roseanne!

If I believed that, I'd believe some of the bull sh!t that people are quoting as gospel truth on this thread.

The issue is so complex that both sides have said things that are right.

As I understand it, muscles have a set number of fibres that remain no matter how big or small you are. However, the size of these fibres changes depending how much development they've had. But to say that your body cannot canabolise muscle tissue just because the number of fibres doesn't decrease is crazy.

Your body must be able to recycle that material as an energy reserve otherwise you would constantly grow until you died. Now last time I looked, most really old people were small and thin rather than built like Lou Ferrigno.

[The Rob]

LMAO Great signature! I can believe the 280 in 5 weeks... I can believe the deadlifts with cars... but noone can squat Roseanne!

why thank you Mr. Terminator

[Kane Fan]

I hate to break up a pissing contest with something so trivial as a fact but I'm going to do it anyway

your all arguing over semantics

one side is saying you don't actually loose muscle tissue if you don't work out
the other side is sayingyou will loose muscle mass if you stop working out/don't eat properly etc etc

now, you have to take a breath here and realize you ARE NOT ACTUALLY DISAGREEING WITH EACH OTHER

the two statements are not (I reapeat NOT) mutually exclusive

when people talk about muscle loss after taking time off or not eating properly etc etc they don't mean they used to have big triceps and today they have none
they mean they used to have big triceps and now they are smaller

there may also be some question as to the possability of the actual number ofmuscle fibers lessening but that is not the point people mean when they talk about loosing muscle after stopping working out, it's a seperate issue entirely

now, can we all stop arguing over a NONissue or are we not quite done yet?

[shpongled]

Originally posted by Kane Fan
I hate to break up a pissing contest with something so trivial as a fact but I'm going to do it anyway

your all arguing over semantics

one side is saying you don't actually loose muscle tissue if you don't work out
the other side is sayingyou will loose muscle mass if you stop working out/don't eat properly etc etc

now, you have to take a breath here and realize you ARE NOT ACTUALLY DISAGREEING WITH EACH OTHER

the two statements are not (I reapeat NOT) mutually exclusive

when people talk about muscle loss after taking time off or not eating properly etc etc they don't mean they used to have big triceps and today they have none
they mean they used to have big triceps and now they are smaller

there may also be some question as to the possability of the actual number ofmuscle fibers lessening but that is not the point people mean when they talk about loosing muscle after stopping working out, it's a seperate issue entirely

now, can we all stop arguing over a NONissue or are we not quite done yet?

Some are agreeing but most aren't.

"Muscle is flesh. Your body does NOT use flesh for calories. So when you cut and "lose" muscle remember that was not muscle. Probably just water and glycogen. True muscle stays with you for years and years."

"When people say they are losing muscles, it is the water in the muscles, not the actual flesh... "

If you evaluate these statements, they are what set off the initial response. Later, they changed their story in the realization that they were wrong:

"The body grows in two ways:
1) Hypertrophy caused by an increase in energy substances in the muscle cell (such as creatine and glycogen).
2) Hypertrophy caused by an increase in the diameter of the muscle fiber (actual muscle growth). It seems that this type of muscle growth stays longer after a period of no training than the first type."

As you can see that is in direct contradiction with earlier statements. It went from "muscle tissue is not destroyed at all" to "there is a kind of muscle growth that stays longer."

NOBODY has argued that the number of muscle fibers can go down, as the initial debate was based on whether or not muscle tissue can be destroyed. And the answer is yes.

David

P.S. The amount of muscle tissue and the amount of muscle fibers are different things.

[LakeMountD]

Originally posted by JohnAppleQbee
Muscle is flesh. Your body does NOT use flesh for calories. So when you cut and "lose" muscle remember that was not muscle. Probably just water and glycogen. True muscle stays with you for years and years.

not true.. sorry... if we took ronnie coleman and stuck him in the desert with no food do you think when he died of starvation that he will have all his muscle left? i think not.. when your caloric intake drops below what your body needs to maintain itself then it converts that muscle to energy.. think about it.. if you have 5 starving ethiopian children in your house and you can only feed 3 for the next 5 weeks then what is going to happen to the other 2? same thing with muscle.. if you cant supply it with the nutrients it needs to maintain itself it will be reused by the body.

[lockmacfly]

not true.. sorry... if we took ronnie coleman and stuck him in the desert with no food do you think when he died of starvation that he will have all his muscle left? i think not.. when your caloric intake drops below what your body needs to maintain itself then it converts that muscle to energy.. think about it.. if you have 5 starving ethiopian children in your house and you can only feed 3 for the next 5 weeks then what is going to happen to the other 2? same thing with muscle.. if you cant supply it with the nutrients it needs to maintain itself it will be reused by the body.

That would mean that a bbuilder can live longer without food than someone else this is not true imo

[VanillaBearB]

That would mean that a bbuilder can live longer without food than someone else this is not true imo

Strong 11 year bump.

[SuffolkPunch]

What a hilarious thread

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catabolism

Now let us never speak of it again.