keto question for some of the experts

[TPRES]

I normally post in the supps section, but have a question for some of the experts on keto dieting. I am on my second week of a cyclical keto diet, and I am wondering if I am taking the best course of action. Okay here it is I am presently 212 at 13% bodyfat. I would like to diet down to 9% by Feb. 15. This means that I need to lose 8lbs of fat give or take. Here is the catch, I do not lose fat easily, and have struggled for years to go below 11.5%bf. My big question is should I continue on the ckd or should I look at hanging in ketosis for a longer period of time? The thing is ketosis doesn't bother me at all, but the 2 days to get there after a carb up is a bitch. I was wondering if I should stay on the 0 carb diet longer, or possibly have just a single carb meal 1-2 times a week, or possibly try a tkd and use some carbs preworkout to help maintain intensity? Any advice would be welcome because I am really needing to lean out, and I don't have much experience with the keto deal. Thanks guys.

[IPR]

Personally I believe the carb-up is valuable as it will refill muscle glycogen, create a anabolic state and increase intensity in the next weeks w/o's and boost your metabolism (its also FUN ). I have also found that I actually lose MORE fat during my carb-up as my system doesn't switch out of a fat for fuel mode (not very scientific I'm afraid).

My recommendation would be to not carb-up for the first 2 weeks, then carb-up in one of two or three ways.

1. Keep weekend carb-up to max 24hrs, which will allow you to get back into ketosis more quickly, plus follow up Sun am with 30mins of moderate cardio to deplete liver glycogen (but leave muscle glycogen relatively untouched).

2. Do a 12hr carb-up and add a mid-week one meal refeed which is low fat, high carb.

3. Extend your days between carb-ups to say 10days.

All the above assumes you are not trying to add lean mass whilst cutting and hence don't need to aim for supercompensation of glycogen in your muscles which takes longer.

btw, the carb-ups should be at above maintenance levels cals.

A TKD would work well, its more a pure cutting only diet for keto. As you only plan to do 4-5 weeks this may be a quicker way to reach you goal.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[Original Poster]

Bump IPR's response.

And..........CARDIO, CARDIO, CARDIO



Good Luck TPRES.........let us know what you decide to do and how it works for ya.

PEACE

[chrisrock]

Originally posted by IPR
1. Keep weekend carb-up to max 24hrs, which will allow you to get back into ketosis more quickly, plus follow up Sun am with 30mins of moderate cardio to deplete liver glycogen (but leave muscle glycogen relatively untouched).

I got a question about the carb up. If my depletion workout is at 11:00 AM, should I start the carb up right after this workout and continue until midnight the next night? That will give me 36 hrs of carb up though?

Thanks guys!

[bachovas]

Ok, after 11 carb up, I'm a bit confused. I used to have my last workout on friday night, sometimes I just wait to saturday and I have a cheat day, and sometimes I would have some rolled oats with protein as my last meal, and have a clean carb up on saturday, either way I never go over my calorie intake for the friday. Now that I'm planning to have my last workout at 1:00 pm on saturdays, should I have my carb up that saturday until I go to bed (around 12-14 hours), or maybe to sunday noon? (24 hours) or to sunday night (36 hours, excessive to me)? If I make it a cheat day I would only go for the 14 hours on saturday.

[TPRES]

A big thanks to IPR. I am going to follow the following course, switch to a tkd and cruise until the 18th. At that point if I feel a good carb up is in order I will do so. Otherwise I will continue on the tkd, and hope for the best. Only wish I had experiemented with ketosis sooner. It appears to work great for me. I began my diet the day after thanksgiving at 226, and in 5 weeks on a traditional diet lost 12lbs with a whopping 1% bodyfat change. Not very good when you consider that only around 2-2.5 pounds of my 12 was actual fat loss. I had some excess water after my last cycle, but still to lose only 2 pounds of fat in 5 weeks of hard dieting sucks. I started the cyclical Keto on Dec. 29, and have had one 30 hour carb up since I began. The results are 2 lbs of weight loss, yet my bodyfat is down 2%, which means good things are happening. Besides the mirror which I count on more than calipers has seen a bigger change in the last 10 days than in the first 5 weeks of dieting. Well thanks again for all of the help and I will keep in touch if I have any other questions.

[IPR]

Originally posted by chrisrock
I got a question about the carb up. If my depletion workout is at 11:00 AM, should I start the carb up right after this workout and continue until midnight the next night? That will give me 36 hrs of carb up though?Thanks guys!

If you are following the depletion approach, yes immediately after your w/o have your shake with liquid carbs (more than usual, say 1.5xprotein grams), then follow this approx 2hrs later with a carb based meal or liquid carbs again and make this the start of you carb-up.

When to stop the carb-up is up to you. It can be Sat midday or later you need to find what suits you best.

[IPR]

Originally posted by bachovas
Ok, after 11 carb up, I'm a bit confused. I used to have my last workout on friday night, sometimes I just wait to saturday and I have a cheat day, and sometimes I would have some rolled oats with protein as my last meal, and have a clean carb up on saturday, either way I never go over my calorie intake for the friday. Now that I'm planning to have my last workout at 1:00 pm on saturdays, should I have my carb up that saturday until I go to bed (around 12-14 hours), or maybe to sunday noon? (24 hours) or to sunday night (36 hours, excessive to me)? If I make it a cheat day I would only go for the 14 hours on saturday.

All of the above are okay IMO.

I carb-up from Fri night through to Sat evening. I also w/o both Sat and Sun mornings, which although preventing supercompensation does allows me to make use of the higher insulin levels and anabolic state following my w/o.

If you still want to use the Sat workout as a depletion w/o, then wait until Sat pm to start your carb-up. If life dictates that Fri through Sat carb-up works best, continue with this. btw, in this case your Sat workout will allow you to extend your carb-up if you want and you will using up some of the muscle glycogen from your Fri pm, Sat am carb intake.

Its not an exact science

[IPR]

Originally posted by TPRES
A big thanks to IPR. ............ I started the cyclical Keto on Dec. 29, and have had one 30 hour carb up since I began. The results are 2 lbs of weight loss, yet my bodyfat is down 2%, which means good things are happening. Besides the mirror which I count on more than calipers has seen a bigger change in the last 10 days than in the first 5 weeks of dieting. Well thanks again for all of the help and I will keep in touch if I have any other questions.

You're welcome.

Glad to hear its working for you, another convert? Chi_town will be happy

Good luck TPRES.

[bachovas]

Originally posted by IPR
If you still want to use the Sat workout as a depletion w/o, then wait until Sat pm to start your carb-up. Its not an exact science

Ok so I'll have my depletion workout on saturday ( 2:00pm ), and I want to do my carb up for 24 hours (sunday noon). How can my body know that I've stopped carbing up? Instead of thinking that I'm eating plenty of carbs on sunday morning and fat protein in the afternoon? Know what I mean?

[IPR]

Originally posted by bachovas
Know what I mean?

errr....sort of

Your body/system will use the glucose present in the blood for energy, refilling muscle and liver glycogen etc until the amount reduces and which time the liver will start giving up its stored glycogen and converting it to glucose.

So, once you stop carb intake, this process begins.

If you are doing a depletion w/o, I wouldn't think a 24hr carb-up will fully compensate muscle glycogen, so shouldn't get any spillover into body fat.

Once you start ingesting high fat food again, the FFA's in your blood will rise and fat will become your fuel source again.

Now for my completely unscientific thought. I don't believe I stop using FFA's for energy/fuel during my carb-up (limited to 24hrs). Although I may not show ketone production as the glycogen level in my liver has become too high, the bodily systems that had adapted to using FFA's don't just simply convert back immediately. Therefore, when I resume high fat diet, its all systems back to nrmal fat burning, but some time is required before ketone production resumes. So, I expect the brain and a few other systems continue working on glucose for fuel whilst stocks last in the liver.

Also remember, with no/low glucose insulin levels will drop quickly, which will happen soon after you stop your carb-up.

Does this answer your question?