Everyone's opinion on Lyle McDonald's interpretation of the CKD

[amarus]

As the post title says, I am interested in hearing what everyone thinks of Lyle McDonald and his interpretation of the Cyclical Ketogenic Diet.

Specifically, I am concerned with the "ketogenic" ration of Proteins/fats.
Lyle says you "must" ingest 1.5g of fat for every g of protein/carbs.

If you do some math, this means that you cannot eat 1g of protein for each lb of bodyweight and still be eating below maintenance:

Lets call our bodyweight "X". Then,
Grams Protein: 1X
Grams fat: 1.5X
Cals Protein: 4.5X (1grm * 4.5 cals/g)
Cals Fat: 15X (1.5grms * 10 cals/grm)
Total Cals: 19.5X

Ideal cals for weight loss on the CKD(as stated by Lyle himself) = approx. 11/12 cals / lb, so this would bring us waaaay over that, even with 0 carbs!

Looks like this approach is geared more towards the average person, rather than a bodybuilder.
Any opinions appreciated.

[Original Poster]

Awsome book, I'm actually re-reading it now


I think his ratio's for fat are a bit excessive IMO. The book's real value lies in the explanation of keto and what the body goes through and how nutrition relates to ketonic diets IMO.

I'm an advocate that a keto must be tweaked and made personal somewhat.

I personaly like 55/45/5 (f/f/c) when on keto, while ingesting all my carbs from fiberous green veggie. I also do a cleaner keto trying to limit the amount of saturated fats and getting more FFA's from fish, olive oil and Flax.

70-80% fats is quite abit high IMO, but a few people use higher fat intakes to help induce ketosis and then scale back to more reasonable numbers once ketosis is reached.

PEACE

[amarus]

Thanks for the reply Chi_town.

70-80% fats is quite abit high IMO, but a few people use higher fat intakes to help induce ketosis and then scale back to more reasonable numbers once ketosis is reached.

I gradually increase my protein once I reach ketosis as well. I just can't stand such high levels of fat (makes me sick).

Friday, before my depletion workout, I eat mostly protein (60-70%), since I don't care about ketosis anymore anyway, plus I've heard that sat. fats decrease insulin sensitivity, which is bad for the carb-up.

I also do a cleaner keto trying to limit the amount of saturated fats and getting more FFA's from fish, olive oil and Flax.

I am supplementing with flax and fish oils as well, but still eat fatty ground beef, etc. As soon as I run out of beef patties, I will start eating more salmon.


What do you do for carb-up? This time around, I am doing liquid carbs for the first 8-12 hrs (dextrose & malto). I am not cheating much on the second 12 hrs either. Stick to good carb sources like rice, vaggies, oats. No pizza, ice-cream, etc (well, almost)

[Blindfaith]

the man is a genius when it comes to the ckd...so i would naturally asume that he would be right in just about everything he says.

but in reality everyone is different...some people can get away with just eating whatever on a keto diet (except for carbs of course) and get away with it and still lose tons of weight. Its all about trial and error....hell i failed the first 3x trying this diet....its not easy to do by any means.

[IPR]

I agree with Chi. and am also re-reading Lyles book at the moment. The sections on adaptation etc is very interesting.

IMHO
I think fat is the buffer in the keto diet, whichever form CKD or TKD. I plan my carb amounts and my protein and then adjust fat intake using flax oil as a supp to maintain energy levels. I don't think his intention is that you should achieve a specific fat intake, rather a specific protein intake and max carbs only, fat then makes up the required calorie level chosen.

[Kow]

There is no "rule" that you need to eat 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight. Adjust your ratios as needed to fit Lyle's caloric recommendations. Even when you're bulking, you don't "need" the whole 1g per pound thing. You could do it a little less and get just as good results as if you did it a little more.

This is one example of why you shouldn't get hung up on something that's not totally necessary if something that's proven shows otherwise.

-Kow

[amarus]

Thanks Kow, that is what I was thinking as well. But I've read otherwise many times, so I was a bit confused.
I personally cannot get into ketosis without the whole 1.5g of fat for each 1g of protein thing. I guess I just convert too much of my protein into glucose.

[Kow]

Sorry, I just dug this up after reading some older posts.

Yeah, if you eat too much protein, it will convert to glucose (via gluconeogenesis). I'm not really sure what the point is with that though. I'm assuming it's individual, but it's also possible that once you start to even out fat cals vs protein cals, it may start there. The only reason I say that is because protein could then become the preferred source of fuel? That may be totally wrong, but it'd be a reasonable guess.

Either way, the presence of ketones and the burning of fat thereof for energy is pretty muscle-sparing, or so I've read. I would guess that it's then not so important to get in as much protein as usual for muscle preservation purposes.

-Kow