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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Robber owned. +1 for the good guy.More info on the shooting at an Ohio Super 8 Motel.

    This video has been posted in the past, but greater than two months ago and more information is available now.
    I spent some time recently reading/learning about this as I am a concealed carry weapons permit holder myself, so I will offer a little more info for anyone who is interested.

    Here is the direct link to the video:
    http://clip.break.com/dnet/media/con...beryontape.wmv



    This is at a Super 8 Motel in Ohio late in the evening. The clerk is a NRA instructor and licensed CCW permit holder. The robber came in and had a 45 revolver aimed down, demanding the money. For those of you outside the US or those that dont follow these things often, robbers in the US often shoot their victims after they get the money. There is no time to beg for your life, or just hope he doesnt shoot you, in this situation. Also, in Ohio, there had just previous to this incident been several motel robberies that ended with clerks being shot by the robber, some fatally.

    The clerk drew and raised his weapon and told the robber to drop his. The clerk fired 3 times, and all three hit the robber. He was using a Glock G27 (.40 S&W) with 165 grain Golden Sabers, if youre into handguns. [The G27 is the same gun I carry BTW.] Two of the bullets went through the robber and hit the glass of the door. You can see, just below the handle of the door a few inches- after the shots are fired, there are two bullet holes a few inches apart (almost looks like one, but is two.) The third bullet stayed in the robber. The robber's gun dropped out of his hand as he was hit as he was grabbing the door handle. The gun dropped just inside the door, the robber collapsed just outside the door and he partially blocked it from completely closing. You can see the clerk go over and kick the robber's gun to the right, away from the door and the robber. The shooter/clerk is not absolutely sure of the robber's total injuries because of medical privacy laws, but believes that one bullet stuck in the robber's shoulder and the other two went through and through a lung from back to front based on what he saw briefly at the scene before the robber was taken away on a stretcher, moaning he couldnt breathe and gasping for air. He almost died, spent some time in the hospital, and is now in prison for his robbery attempt. He was also a multiple felon prior to this.

    Despite the criticisms of armchair quarterbacks, the clerk was praised by all involved, except the perp of course . The police, prosecutor, the woman w child, the female clerk (who now has her CCW as well), and the Manager of the Super 8 all praised his actions. He kept his job. He has not been sued, nor the motel, and likely will not be. He went to the perp's court date wearing a Glock shirt ; but didnt have to testify, because of a plea deal.


    Here are some quotes from the actual clerk/shooter at another forum:
    Thanks for all the responses. I'd like to start out saying that it looks as though I am shooting close to the baby, but I am not. The camera angle makes it look as though the little girl is right there, but is a good deal away. Even if the mother didn't grab the baby, the shots wouldn't have come close. The second thing I'd like to say is that I didn't get up in the morning saying I would sure love to pop someone today. The robber chose the time and the place, I didn't ask for it. There are two types of people in this world, those who will take action and those that won't. I assessed the risk as fast as I could at that exact moment. A .45 long colt looks very menacing when your on the business end of it. I have been tought to meet force with force, and to open up quick and violently. Things may have played out differently had my coworker not have been there. Maybe I would have tried to draw down, maybe I wouldn't have, or maybe I would have looked for another opportunity to draw. I had to get behind her so he couldn't see what was going on. I brought my gun up on to target and was in the middle of yelling for him to drop the weapon when he jumped back and pullled the gun up. I ducked out of the way for a moment and popped back up firing when my weapon was on target.

    As far as using the front sights, I did, using my flash sight picture. Now with shooting in the back, yes, he got nailed in the back, but the time from when my gun clears my holster to when he's laying on the ground is roughly 2.9 seconds. That doesn't give you a whole lot of time to think, but even so, if he didn't want to get shot, he should have put the weapon down. You don't make a sudden movement, especially with a gun in your hand in that type of situation. I feel confident in my skills as I shoot almost every weekend, I hold a CCW, and am also an NRA instructor for home firearm safety, basic pistol, and personal protection. No one knows how they are going to respond to a situation when they get thrust into it. I felt very threatend and did what I have been tought to do.
    Here is a pic of the clerk:
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...r/IMG_0298.jpg
    (the clerk is the dude on the left.)

    More from him:
    Now as far as people bieng in the way and all that, I doubt you will ever get perfect conditions. You respond to situations as they come and make adjustments accordingly. If some crazy ******* opens fire in a mall, some of you with CCW may want to run, which is fine, it's a natural reaction and perfectly normal. I myself along with a few other would probably decide to take cover and stop the threat. I believe it is my job while armed to not only protect myself, but others that may be in harms way and that I believe I am in a position to help. Some of you may think that's the wrong way to think, which is also ok, but to each his own. I have to make my decisions as you may have to make yours, and nobody gets to make that decision for you.

    By the way, the woman in the video was not pissed, actually just the opposite. She thanked me a whole lot, and so did my co worker. She also wrote me a long letter expressing her gratitude, and is now a firearm owner waiting to get a ccw. I was never charged with anything. The police, as well as the prosecutors viewed this in a very positive light, especially with all the witness statements in my favor. The police tend to look at things more favorably when the person who gets hurt is a multiple felon in the middle of commiting a few more felonys.
    I hope to God I never have to do anything like this, but if it comes to pass, I hope I am as successful as this guy. I train frequently, as do most CCW permit holders, and things like this video help us learn things, and learn why we need to train even more. My wife and mom and several others in my family all have our CCW's and train together often. We are prepared to defend ourselves with deadly force if need be. There will likely never be a 'perfect' situation where there are no bystanders and a perfect backstop for your shots. We have to do what we have to do to show these crackheads they cannot have a free reign. In all states where CCW has been adopted, violent crime rates have gone down. Florida was the first state to allow CCW, and violent crime rates dropped so significantly that many other states took notice. YOU are the only one ultimately responsible for your safety from these loser zombies who dont give a damn about killing people for a few bucks for crack or what-not. ONLY YOU.

    score:
    +1 Good guy
    +1 Society
    -1 Bad guy
    -1 future perps having similar thoughts
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  2. #2
    Alavanca PaHulkster's Avatar
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    I understand the guys actions, but why even bother when there is probably $50 in the cash register. It's really not worth putting everybody elses life in danger because you want to be Walker Texas Ranger. I'm an NRA member btw.
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    Nice posts, and I like his comments, but I feel he should've stepped away from the spotlight as comments like those may not have helped his case if they were said before he was acquitted of whatever he may have been charged for.

    Although I may not agree completely with the theory or idea that more gun carriers ends violence, I would want to have a CCW permit, but too bad I live in Canada.

    P.S. What's with his picture, lol...that's pretty random dude.
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    As a person who does not like guns, I wholeheartedly support what this young man did. There were other lives at risk in the hotel, not just his own. I work overnights at a hotel and have in fact been robbed before and been at the 'business end' of a SHOTGUN.. so I know what it feels like to be in that moment. Luckily for me there were no guests around and I was able to calmly talk the guy down while gathering the money for him. So I support his actions, even though I don't think that it is something everyone should do in the same situation.
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    Originally Posted by PaHulkster
    I understand the guys actions, but why even bother when there is probably $50 in the cash register. It's really not worth putting everybody elses life in danger because you want to be Walker Texas Ranger. I'm an NRA member btw.
    Its not about the money in the register. The clerk stated he could give a damn less about that. Besides, you canot shoot someone over money or property anyway in most jurisdictions. Its about stopping the perp before he kills you or the others. Pay attention to the news. Perps like this dont always take the money and run. And also, like was stated, there had been other robberies in this area where the clerks were shot after they had handed the money over, some fatally so. Hope he doesnt shoot you? Is that a chance you would take? Not me. +1
    Last edited by BlueBayou; 05-26-2006 at 10:28 PM.
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    Well, you never know how it's going to go. This is how this one went, and luckily everybody except the dickhead robber is ok.
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    Talking

    Yeah that was a good job for the clerk. Actually if you look at that last pic you posted his friend next to him posted that video on ar15.com forums (the photo of the website on the computer).

    I caught the video and story then, right after this happend. ( Im a member of those forums ). Was a very big thread. Did anybody else like the fat coworker shield tactic?
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    Originally Posted by PaHulkster
    Well, you never know how it's going to go. This is how this one went, and luckily everybody except the dickhead robber is ok.
    I wish we could have seen the robber's face when the clerk drew on him, I bet it was like.. OH SH!T SON!
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by stonecoldtruth
    As a person who does not like guns, I wholeheartedly support what this young man did. There were other lives at risk in the hotel, not just his own. I work overnights at a hotel and have in fact been robbed before and been at the 'business end' of a SHOTGUN.. so I know what it feels like to be in that moment. Luckily for me there were no guests around and I was able to calmly talk the guy down while gathering the money for him. So I support his actions, even though I don't think that it is something everyone should do in the same situation.
    Exactly. Preparations like this are not for everyone. It takes a commitment to quality and quantity training to be a CCW holder. But I do recommend everyone at least consider it. The bad guy is going to be armed if he so chooses. What will you choose? That is your choice to make. If someone cannot choose this option and has thoroughly considered it, I would of course support their decision without criticism.

    But as far as "what to do". If you are armed and well-trained, you have to act - and act with "surprise, violence, and speed". People who hesitate are people who all too often get killed. This is being taught to LEO's more and more- hesitation and hoping for the best gets you killed too often to ignore.
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    **** robbers, he deserved it
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    Originally Posted by BlueBayou
    Lol, we should all write him letters!

    Dear Mr. ANTOINE M STEPHENS,

    YOU GOT OWNED BY THAT CLERK!

    Cheers,
    Stonecoldtruth
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    Originally Posted by stonecoldtruth
    Lol, we should all write him letters!

    Dear Mr. ANTOINE M STEPHENS,

    YOU GOT OWNED BY THAT CLERK!

    Cheers,
    Stonecoldtruth
    ROTFLMAO!

    Dont do that!

    He's gotten what he deserved, and serving his court-appointed time. Hopefully he will follow a law-abiding path when he gets out. Egging him on would hurt that process.

    BTW,
    This was also his 3rd felony with a weapon but the 2 prior were juvenile offenses. This was also the perps 20th birthday. He decided to celebrate by holding up a guy at an ATM {and then did this robbery attempt}
    Sounds to me like he was probably on crack and desparate. These guys are so unpredictable and very dangerous and kill often.



    I am an ER Registered Nurse BTW. My Emergency Department is our city's primary Trauma Center(Level II). I have seen many many shooting patients, and have been involved in quite a few high-profile ones. Crack (and other drugs, but mostly crack) is so often involved in these cases it isnt funny. I have seen both the good and the bad of firearms ownership. Weighing the good and the bad, I vehemently support firearms ownership (and CCW).

    Another interesting tidbit. The robber's defense lawyer, after the sentencing was over, approached the clerk/shooter about training him for his CCW permit.
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  14. #14
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    i want to see a pic of the glock shirt
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    Originally Posted by drakx188
    i want to see a pic of the glock shirt
    I actually saw a pic of him with the Glock shirt on. I have been through about 7 different threads on this subject at four different forums and about 30 or 40 total thread pages. But, I'll see if I can find it. I think I know where it is...

    EDIT: I couldnt find it... Sorry
    Last edited by BlueBayou; 05-27-2006 at 01:05 AM.
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    Originally Posted by BlueBayou
    I actually saw a pic of him with the Glock shirt on. I have been through about 7 different threads on this subject at four different forums and about 30 or 40 total thread pages. But, I'll see if I can find it. I think I know where it is...
    haha sweet
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    I may have been mistaken about the shirt. I was thinking it was one in his gallery at gunsnet.net. I sent him a PM over there (Im a member there) and maybe he'll put up a pic of it or come over here and post. I sent him a link to this thread. From his sig over there, and other things, it looks like he and I think a lot alike.
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    if you get it definitely post it here
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    Originally Posted by PaHulkster
    I understand the guys actions, but why even bother when there is probably $50 in the cash register. It's really not worth putting everybody elses life in danger because you want to be Walker Texas Ranger. I'm an NRA member btw.
    The robber put those peoples' lives in danger.

    After a robbery, Tookie Williams shotgunned an entire family. I'm not putting my life in the hands of a man who is trying to rob me.

    BTW I've spoken to this guy. He posts under the handle "Rooftop Voter". Seems like a down to earth guy, I think his actions were exemplary.

    This is a shorter clip of a longer video. The longer vid has a hilarious picture of him at the end.
    Last edited by NuggzTheNinja; 05-27-2006 at 05:33 AM.
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    Originally Posted by PaHulkster
    I understand the guys actions, but why even bother when there is probably $50 in the cash register. It's really not worth putting everybody elses life in danger because you want to be Walker Texas Ranger. I'm an NRA member btw.
    Did you even read his post? It is becoming more and more common that the clerks are being shot after handing over the money.

    I wish we had more people like this dude. More guns in the hands of lawful abiding citizens will make potential criminals think twice.
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    www.selfdefenseforums.com

    You're welcome there.
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    Lightbulb

    Originally Posted by PaHulkster
    I understand the guys actions, but why even bother when there is probably $50 in the cash register..
    Because then the scum walks away, and is pointing his gun at someone else tomorrow night - quite possibly someone unable to defend themselves, who ends up dead. If criminals start being less successful, just maybe we'll end up with less criminals. . .
    - "How do those guys on submarines hold their breath for so long?" - Kelly Bundy
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    Thumbs up

    Cool video. I like how he acts like he's helping with the cash register while he's actually drawing his gun.
    It's good to hear that he didn't get the book thrown at him like you hear about in some self defense horror stories.
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    Originally Posted by coontang
    I like how he acts like he's helping with the cash register while he's actually drawing his gun.
    Yes, he had a great advantage of having her to conceal his draw. But then again he did not use that advantage fully because he did not fire at the first instant he could have, but instead yelled at the perp. Thats a problem with concealed draw on a person who already has a firearm in hand. They already have the advantage over you. Practice helps a lot and can lessen that advantage they have over you. The clerk did not fire at the first instant he could have, and that is one thing I would have done differently. I know I'm doing a little armchair quarterbacking myself here, but I would have fired the instant I had the weapon on him, while he was still by the counter. I would not have given him a chance to surrender. I never practice just a draw without fire. My weapon is only drawn at the instant I am going to fire ( in this sort of direct, imminent threat instance anyway.) I always practice draw and shoot, and thats how it would be in a real situation. The perp will not know I have a weapon until he feels the impact, or hears the bang.
    The current issue of Combat Handguns(Aug, '06) has an excellent set of cases in the "Self Defense and the Law" article that shows how hesitation gets cops and citizens killed too often in these cases.

    This is when youre good!:
    http://www.tribcsp.com/~rankeny/2times3.WMV
    (all 6 shots were in the kill zone. Not me BTW, I'm not that good!)


    It's good to hear that he didn't get the book thrown at him like you hear about in some self defense horror stories.
    Ditto. But he didnt break any laws either, and the video and witnesses are clear cut and proves his case. Civil issues are the primary concern here, but this perp doesnt have a chance. People like Mossad Ayoob would help eat this plaintiff's lawyer alive, and no lawyer would take it in the first place. The fact that he gave the perp a warning and a chance to drop his weapon just proves his case here. Also, A person who has made a deadly threat towards you is still considered a deadly threat if they have that weapon in hand, even if they are moving away from you- in most jurisdictions anyway. One reasoning for this is that they could simply be moving for cover.
    Last edited by BlueBayou; 05-27-2006 at 10:17 PM.
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    My problem with this is that there were other people in the room when this happened. He made a choice to take everybodys lives into his hands. It's great that is worked out that way, and I'm glad the robber got shot, but the clerk still added to the danger level. There are probably a good amount of stories where somebody with a CCW ended up causing more damage too. Remember that I'm talking about this specific incident, though. My father, uncles, and some friends all have CCW's. I'd have one myself, but I'm way too aggresive in certain situations. People in my family are police officers, veterans, and government agents. I'm an NRA member, gun owner, and safe gun use enthusiast. I've beat the living **** out of people who have tried to rob/harm me. However, I still don't agree with this specific situation.
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    Originally Posted by PaHulkster
    My problem with this is that there were other people in the room when this happened. He made a choice to take everybodys lives into his hands.
    Who made their choice first, the clerk, or the armed robber?
    - The armed robber.

    The armed robber is the one who made a choice that evening to threaten everyone in that room with deadly force.

    The clerk made a choice to defend everyone in that room. [Not to "take everybodys lives into his hands."] And that he did successfully.

    Your argument is based primarily on "what-ifs"
    My argument is based primarily on "what actually happened"


    We are both weighing the facts and the potentials. I am minimizing the "what-ifs" and maximizing the "what actually happened." You are minimizing the "what actually happened" and maximizing the "what-ifs". Neither in this case can have an exclusively right or wrong answer. But on a case-by-case basis such as this, the "what actually happened" is a fact of that case, and the "what-ifs" are only speculations.

    Also, one side (me) sees the greater potential danger as that posed by an armed robber who is allowed an unchallenged choice to kill or maim his victims; and the other(you) sees the greater potential danger as that posed by an deadly force response to that armed robber before he can act.

    I see your view as a sort of hesitant-cowardice and also taking a very risky gamble that the armed robber doesnt shoot anyone- a risky gamble that I feel should not be taken. You see my viewpoint as one of praising a situation that could have gone badly for the good guys resulting from armed response.

    How many times do armed robbers shoot and even kill their robbery victims and/or onlookers? Often
    How many times do CCW shootings go badly for bystanders? Extremely rarely

    Good summary?

    Hypothetical Question: How would you expect a plain clothes Law Enforcement Officer to have likely reacted if he were in the position of the clerk? How would YOU WANT that LEO to react in this situation?
    Last edited by BlueBayou; 05-27-2006 at 11:37 PM.
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    Originally Posted by PaHulkster
    I understand the guys actions, but why even bother when there is probably $50 in the cash register. It's really not worth putting everybody elses life in danger because you want to be Walker Texas Ranger. I'm an NRA member btw.
    $50? Even small hotels and motels keep at least $400 in the cash register.
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    i think it was way to close to the baby but what can you do... i wouldve done the same.
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    Talking

    That's why I keep my G19 in my CTAC IWB holster at all times.
    "For me, when I see food, I see two things and two things only. I see bricks and I see sh*t. Each good food I eat, well, itís another brick in this motherf*cking house Iím building. I knew going in that it would take a lot of bricks and a lot of time." -Wrath
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    Exclamation

    Originally Posted by PaHulkster
    He made a choice to take everybodys lives into his hands.
    The CRIMINAL made the choice to endanger everyone's life in that room. The bystander made the choice to Protect everyone's life.

    People tend to forget that the Criminal is always the one to set actions in motion, and the Criminal bears ultimate responsibility for every bit of damage, injury, and death that occurs.
    - "How do those guys on submarines hold their breath for so long?" - Kelly Bundy
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