volume vs. HIT for mass.....

**JeremyD** · 12-08-2002, 07:54 PM

I've asked this question around on a few forums before. I'd just like to get everyones oppinions on the subject and the reasoning behind it.

**Sonny** · 12-08-2002, 08:54 PM

Both approaches have worked for me, but I find that I plateau alot easier using HIT. Usually after about 3 weeks, I start to feel a little flat from it, but It takes a lot longer when I'm using more volume. I usually use higher volume though because I don't have a spotter to help me go to absolute failure advocated by HITers.

Try them both and see which one works better for you!

**Complete Muscle** · 12-08-2002, 11:08 PM

It really isn't fair to ask which one is better. Both have different merits. Why not use every tool available? The picture I have is heavier weight/lower reps is good for pure hypertrophy and strength, where higher volume increases muscle size by increasing the number of blood capillaries and increasing muscle cells' affinity for carbohydrates.

To be honest I have only used higher weight/low to med reps since I started (2 1/2 ys). I'm ready for a break. I am going to try some type of "cumulative fatigue training" (higher volume, less rest between sets).

**Kane Fan** · 12-09-2002, 02:08 AM

well as mentioned prviously if you don't have a spotter you can count on HIT is really out of the equation

I have gotten good gains on volume training
I havn't been able to try true HIT because I lift alone (nobody else I know is even into it, at all)
so for me the closest I can get to HIT is abreviated training
I like Volume training and I get better results from volume then abreviated
that's me
I'm not you
so take that advice for what it's worth
if you ever find yourself trapped in my body
do us both a favor and do a lil volume liftin : P
of course if your in my body hopefuly I'll be in Matt Hardyz....
and as long as he dosn't wind up in Lita's body....
hmmm I'm digressing....

**The Rob** · 12-09-2002, 05:31 AM

KaneFan, you're a big red retard just like your hero!

j\k

**Sonny** · 12-09-2002, 09:39 AM

Actually, Kane Fan brought up a good point in that the average guy lifting weights doesn't know about HIT. Also, any of my friends who lift and who do know about HIT, totally don't believe that such brief forms of training can be beneficial.

Yeah, tell that to the poor bastard doing 20 rep squats right now!

**coreman** · 12-09-2002, 09:49 AM

I've got no idea what you people are talking about when you say you MUST have a spotter for HIT. The only exercise I can think of where you would need one is squats. Just get someone to spot for that one set and that's it. Everything else can be done on your own. Use dumbbells...self spot. If you're using forced reps and negatives then you're not training properly. Just use rest-pause if you want an intensity technique.

**Lats McGee** · 12-09-2002, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by coreman
I've got no idea what you people are talking about when you say you MUST have a spotter for HIT. The only exercise I can think of where you would need one is squats. Just get someone to spot for that one set and that's it. Everything else can be done on your own. Use dumbbells...self spot. If you're using forced reps and negatives then you're not training properly. Just use rest-pause if you want an intensity technique.

bump on that, the way I train is I do abbreviated training for 5 weeks, than more of a pure HIT style. I have yet to hit a plateau.

Just to let you guys know my friend and his workout partner are devising a new low volume mass building program for volume addicts, I'll post it once we work out all the details.

**Kane Fan** · 12-09-2002, 11:18 PM

the rob

don't make me bitchbeat you like 3 minute warning....
; o )

hrm, forced reps are the ideas behind heavyduty that I like best
seriously tho when you ask a guy in the gym for a spot that's fine for a regular set
but if I was doing a HIT super intense set I would want someone that I KNOW I can count on not someone I found doing curls in the squat rack : P

**Bone** · 12-09-2002, 11:22 PM

If you're an ecto dont even bother with HIT...........wont do a damn thing for you!!!

Peace

Bone

**ShallowGrave** · 12-10-2002, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Bone
If you're an ecto dont even bother with HIT...........wont do a damn thing for you!!!

Peace

Bone

In my opinion all ectos should be doing HIT or some other form of abbreviated training. Ectos have fast metabolisms and therefore have trouble gaining weight (fat or muscle). Therefore time spent lifting (thus burning extreme amounts of calories, should be reduced as much as possible. How do we reduce this time? By eliminating unneccessary exercises and doing the minimal number of sets to induce growth...in other words HIT or another form of abbreviated training

**back2it** · 12-10-2002, 02:30 PM

Hit will work for anyone that applies it properly . The same can be said for volume training . With HIT you must be very intense with your training , keep the workout short and rest until the bodypart is ready to lift again usually 5 to 7 days later . With volume training you workout for longer periods and because you don't work the muscle as hard as HIT does the you have to work it for longer periods and rest until the muscle is fully recovered . To say it won't work for a certain body part is incorrect . You can overtrain with either system and that more than anyother factor is why most people stop gaining after the initial "anything will work period " .

**Sonny** · 12-10-2002, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by coreman
I've got no idea what you people are talking about when you say you MUST have a spotter for HIT. The only exercise I can think of where you would need one is squats. Just get someone to spot for that one set and that's it. Everything else can be done on your own. Use dumbbells...self spot. If you're using forced reps and negatives then you're not training properly. Just use rest-pause if you want an intensity technique.

To go to ABSOLUTE failure, you need a spotter! How do you spot yourself on Bench Presses, Military presses, pullovers, lying extensions etc. You need a spotter to help you grind out that last rep!

**Sychokid** · 12-10-2002, 03:58 PM

I would say volume. BUt I don't mean do 50 sets of bicep curls like most people new to this sport do. I mean a considerable amount of volume. I think one exercises once a week doesn't do much. But i do believe in high intensity as long as it is with a good amount of volume (but not too much). I do fo some reason though, prefer hit cardio over normal 30 minute cardios. I like it a lot better and it is a lot shorter then normal cardio (like 10-15 minutes long).

**coreman** · 12-11-2002, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Sonny
To go to ABSOLUTE failure, you need a spotter! How do you spot yourself on Bench Presses, Military presses, pullovers, lying extensions etc. You need a spotter to help you grind out that last rep!

What the hell? The point is to go to total positive failure. When you can no longer get a rep on your own you've reached that point. Anything a spotter adds is a forced rep and you don't need that for HIT!!

**hawkpfc2** · 12-11-2002, 11:03 AM

Bone, I am curious as to why you think that HIT is a waste for ectos. I know many who have gained well off it. I am ecto to ecto-meso and I find it to not be too useful. I have been known to bring protein shakes to the gym though and work it between body parts if I am doing two body parts a day so I may not be the best one to comment on this. I still do relatively low volume but HIT and extremely lowv olume do not work for me. High volume also works for me, but I don't like doing more than necessary if my growth won't be substantially higher. If I did high volume, my growth would likelly be slightly higher than it is now.
Cheers,
Ben

**Sonny** · 12-11-2002, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by coreman
What the hell? The point is to go to total positive failure. When you can no longer get a rep on your own you've reached that point. Anything a spotter adds is a forced rep and you don't need that for HIT!!

I know what you mean. But personally, I'm never quite sure if I've even hit POSITIVE failure I'm never sure if I can manage one more rep after my last one, especially at the end of the set when I'm tired. Like I said, I can't dare myself to try one more because I might not make it, then I'm in trouble. So I can't say whether I had one more rep or not without a spotter there just in case.

Of course, this applies only to certain exercises.

**John_Thomas** · 12-11-2002, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Kane Fan

of course if your in my body hopefuly I'll be in Matt Hardyz....
and as long as he dosn't wind up in Lita's body....
hmmm I'm digressing....

'....hopefuly I'll be in Matt Hardyz....'???

Erm, if you are talking the way I think you are, I would rather have a body like Batistas or Triple H's, but with better legs. If you truly wanted to be inside someones body though, I'd suggest Lita.

**Complete Muscle** · 12-11-2002, 03:10 PM

Hey JeremyD, did any of our answers help? What's your opinion??

**Kane Fan** · 12-11-2002, 04:00 PM

no no no
you see Lita and Matt are friends (a couple actually)
so you see..
Lita...
nm I can't bring myself to say it but you get the damned idea
btw good taste in women john_thomas

now if your doing Hit, and you have no spotter
what exactly do you do on the bench press when you've hit possitive failure?
just wait patiently for your body to recover so you can get the weight off of yourself?
HIT w/out a spotter = abreviated training
and this isn't abreviated vs volume
it's HIT vs volume

**JeremyD** · 12-11-2002, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by Complete Muscle
Hey JeremyD, did any of our answers help? What's your opinion??

Well. I'm currently doing a volume routine. I switch it up every 4-6 weeks though. My body gets used to it very quickly and I need to change things up often to avoid plateaus. I've got 2 weeks left and I go back to HIT.

I've just been really interested in people's oppinnions on the subject for a while now. I keep reading "the ultimate mass building" articles and half say HIT, the other half say volume.....

**JeremyD** · 12-11-2002, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by Kane Fan
now if your doing Hit, and you have no spotter
what exactly do you do on the bench press when you've hit possitive failure?
just wait patiently for your body to recover so you can get the weight off of yourself?

That was my question......

There are some lifts that can be done to absolute failure without a spotter. But for things like squats, bench press, etc, there is no way I'd go to failure witout a spot.....

**The Rob** · 12-11-2002, 07:54 PM

but with better legs.

YOU NUTS? have you sen HHH's quads?

**Sonny** · 12-11-2002, 10:31 PM

Yeah, HHH's legs only look small because of his massive upper body!

**The Rob** · 12-12-2002, 10:56 AM

**John_Thomas** · 12-12-2002, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by The Rob
YOU NUTS? have you sen HHH's quads?

Yes I have, on many occasions. He has been one of my favourite wrestlers for about five or six years now. Upper body - great. Lower body - crap. His quads alone make you want to cry, and thats before you look at his calves. Rock or Rhyno have better quads. Hell, even Test has better quads. But no one else had their left quad torn like his, so I'll make an exception.

**John_Thomas** · 12-12-2002, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by The Rob

Nice pic of his quads here

**Kane Fan** · 12-12-2002, 05:45 PM

HHH's primary problem is his forearms
from a BB standpoint
calves somewhat
I don't notice upper legs being a real problem
Test is NO WHERE NEAR HHH's leg size

**John_Thomas** · 12-12-2002, 06:08 PM

Not size, but shape. I haven't seen the definition that Test has in Triple H. Like I said before, best person for quads is Rhyno.

**The Rob** · 12-12-2002, 07:48 PM

biggest arms? Scot Steiner.............my God his arms are HUGE!

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