Ass to the floor Squats

[Melvin Mendes]

I see alot of people on here, sometimes younger than me, who have their Max squat at like 300 or 400lbs. Now I'm not saying they are performing them wrong, but yesterday I started to use Squats again (Didn't have to for a while, I did 200 hindu squats instead). I performed this squats the way they are supposed to be done, Ass to the floor. I mean all the way down and explode off my feet. I did 3 sets of around 6-8 reps and it felt amazing. I'm sure most of you on here do this because its the right way to perform a squat but then again its hard to believe someone who is 16 can squat 400lbs. I'm sure the form on those squats are terrible, probably only goes about half way down and up. Just wanted to vent my thoughts on this. Maybe start a huge discussion. Thanks.

[hotasice2003]

I see alot of people on here, sometimes younger than me, who have their Max squat at like 300 or 400lbs. Now I'm not saying they are performing them wrong, but yesterday I started to use Squats again (Didn't have to for a while, I did 200 hindu squats instead). I performed this squats the way they are supposed to be done, Ass to the floor. I mean all the way down and explode off my feet. I did 3 sets of around 6-8 reps and it felt amazing. I'm sure most of you on here do this because its the right way to perform a squat but then again its hard to believe someone who is 16 can squat 400lbs. I'm sure the form on those squats are terrible, probably only goes about half way down and up. Just wanted to vent my thoughts on this. Maybe start a huge discussion. Thanks.

LOL, I agree, and have also pondered this. I am extremely weak at squats, however, as I just started them, so I can't talk. But, I do them right, and I always go below parallel. I am currently using a 10" box, to help practice form, and teach myself to stay back........

[mike_d]

I see alot of people on here, sometimes younger than me, who have their Max squat at like 300 or 400lbs. Now I'm not saying they are performing them wrong, but yesterday I started to use Squats again (Didn't have to for a while, I did 200 hindu squats instead). I performed this squats the way they are supposed to be done, Ass to the floor. I mean all the way down and explode off my feet. I did 3 sets of around 6-8 reps and it felt amazing. I'm sure most of you on here do this because its the right way to perform a squat but then again its hard to believe someone who is 16 can squat 400lbs. I'm sure the form on those squats are terrible, probably only goes about half way down and up. Just wanted to vent my thoughts on this. Maybe start a huge discussion. Thanks.

Ass to the FLOOR? Thats deeper than a true squat man. I hover between below comp parallel and above ATG (not ATFLOOR).

You need to remember lots of these teens post e-stats in their sigs, but I can see a select handful of elite football player type guys or young powerlifters with squat numbers that high.

But most would be e-stats, sometimes added onto their quarter squat weight which they call an ATG squat. Dont worry about them or other people, focus on your own progression.

Careful getting all the way to the floor, I cant see someone maintaining proper spinal alignment that deep in the hole.

[tarun_s]

damn. i thought it was just me stuck at squatting 200 at almost atg.

[WillB485]

damn. i thought it was just me stuck at squatting 200 at almost atg.

I ran into an old friend at that gym that I always used to compete with in lifting. He had like 255 on the squat bar and I was thinking, WOW, not bad for a guy whose like 150 lbs. But then I see him in action; he puts a high stool under his butt and starts squatting- not even touching the stool (the stool was probably 1-2 inches above parallel. I don't say anything but when its my turn, I remove the stool, put like 135 on the bar, and squat til my butt almost touchs my heels. He is like, "What is the point of going so low? You can do so much higher weight if you don't go down as far."

I think if you could watch a lot of people squat that have high numbers, the good majority of them don't even get parallel.

[Big Boi 1906]

Ass to the FLOOR? Thats deeper than a true squat man. I hover between below comp parallel and above ATG (not ATFLOOR).

You need to remember lots of these teens post e-stats in their sigs, but I can see a select handful of elite football player type guys or young powerlifters with squat numbers that high.

But most would be e-stats, sometimes added onto their quarter squat weight which they call an ATG squat. Dont worry about them or other people, focus on your own progression.

Careful getting all the way to the floor, I cant see someone maintaining proper spinal alignment that deep in the hole.

Co-signs on that. Ass to grass squats can cause some serious injuries my man. I don't know any pro's who recommend that.

[Melvin Mendes]

Ass to the FLOOR? Thats deeper than a true squat man. I hover between below comp parallel and above ATG (not ATFLOOR).

You need to remember lots of these teens post e-stats in their sigs, but I can see a select handful of elite football player type guys or young powerlifters with squat numbers that high.

But most would be e-stats, sometimes added onto their quarter squat weight which they call an ATG squat. Dont worry about them or other people, focus on your own progression.

Careful getting all the way to the floor, I cant see someone maintaining proper spinal alignment that deep in the hole.

Yea I realized that after I did it, felt a little pain my lower back. I wore a belt to help. I don't literally mean I go Ass to the floor, I go perfectly parallel and if not parallel its just a tad bit lower than that. Still gotta work on proper form, def don't wanna mess up my back.
I know I should focus on my progression but even 16 and 17yr olds in my gym come in and squat/bench so much weight its frustrating because they after they lift they look at me as if they out did me. The only thing they outdid me in was lifting with improper form. They wear wife beaters and they don't even fill them out. Their chest is flat and legs are skinny I wear the same thing but my chest sticks out and is developed due to proper form and eating right. Just pisses me off when someone who doesn't know what they are doing acts badass.
Could anyone tell me how to post pictures on these forums? I'd like to start putting myself out there for some body critiques. thanks

[Kozma]

I see alot of people on here, sometimes younger than me, who have their Max squat at like 300 or 400lbs. Now I'm not saying they are performing them wrong, but yesterday I started to use Squats again (Didn't have to for a while, I did 200 hindu squats instead). I performed this squats the way they are supposed to be done, Ass to the floor. I mean all the way down and explode off my feet. I did 3 sets of around 6-8 reps and it felt amazing. I'm sure most of you on here do this because its the right way to perform a squat but then again its hard to believe someone who is 16 can squat 400lbs. I'm sure the form on those squats are terrible, probably only goes about half way down and up. Just wanted to vent my thoughts on this. Maybe start a huge discussion. Thanks.

you'll wreck your knees doing hindu squats

[Melvin Mendes]

you'll wreck your knees doing hindu squats

Well if you wreck your knees doing them how do pro wrestlers do 500 as a warm up? Are you sure you know what a hindu squat is? I've had to do them for wrestling and my knees are fine, I felt it all in my quads.

[ossizen]

I see alot of people on here, sometimes younger than me, who have their Max squat at like 300 or 400lbs. Now I'm not saying they are performing them wrong, but yesterday I started to use Squats again (Didn't have to for a while, I did 200 hindu squats instead). I performed this squats the way they are supposed to be done, Ass to the floor. I mean all the way down and explode off my feet. I did 3 sets of around 6-8 reps and it felt amazing. I'm sure most of you on here do this because its the right way to perform a squat but then again its hard to believe someone who is 16 can squat 400lbs. I'm sure the form on those squats are terrible, probably only goes about half way down and up. Just wanted to vent my thoughts on this. Maybe start a huge discussion. Thanks.

I started doing ATG squats a few days ago and they really hit my legs harder than just going down to parallel. Granted I had to reduce the weight, but I definitely felt that. I felt my legs being tight for over 24 hours. I had a pump going for almost an hour and the tightness remaining during the next day.

I maxed out at 185lbs with parallel squats. The most I've done with ATG was around 140lbs.

[Big Jeff]

Yea I realized that after I did it, felt a little pain my lower back. I wore a belt to help. I don't literally mean I go Ass to the floor, I go perfectly parallel and if not parallel its just a tad bit lower than that. Still gotta work on proper form, def don't wanna mess up my back.
I know I should focus on my progression but even 16 and 17yr olds in my gym come in and squat/bench so much weight its frustrating because they after they lift they look at me as if they out did me. The only thing they outdid me in was lifting with improper form. They wear wife beaters and they don't even fill them out. Their chest is flat and legs are skinny I wear the same thing but my chest sticks out and is developed due to proper form and eating right. Just pisses me off when someone who doesn't know what they are doing acts badass.
Could anyone tell me how to post pictures on these forums? I'd like to start putting myself out there for some body critiques. thanks

Don't take this the wrong way, but stop being so insecure.

Like someone else said, just worry about yourself. If these kids don't know how to train, it's their problem, not yours. And if they want to outdo you on a lift performed sloppily, let them. You're a bodybuilder, which means you are building your muscles, not your totals. If you have a better physique than them, that's all that counts. They know it, and you should know it too.

And as for the kids on the boards, remember that this is the internet, where people can be whatever they want. Of course, it doesn't mean you have to believe them or even care at all. Stop looking at other peoples' "stats", and worry about your physique.

[Andrew.Cook]

Co-signs on that. Ass to grass squats can cause some serious injuries my man. I don't know any pro's who recommend that.

Funny, I know lots of wise men in the weight sports who recommend ATG squats. No injuries, in fact in a controlled manner these are more useful and less prone to injuries than a parallel squat. Injury is a very minor issue where this is concerned. I have been involved in power lifting and bodybuilding since the age of 15, and I've yet to see anyone, in 15 years, hurt themselves while properly performing a squat. I've seen LOTS of people hurt themselves by not having good balance, but goofing off, by trying to lift with their ego... but never once have I seen a kneecap just come all undone due to deep squats... or parallel. Can it happen? Yes. Injuries and accidents happen, and yet it doesn't mean that NOBODY should ever attempt deep squats.

That being said, hate it or love it, parallel squats are the powerlifting meet standard. If you can't get down at least that far, you are just fooling yourself. Get down further into your squat, and you get my respect. You push 400lbs completely outta the hole... you have more to brag about than the guy going parallel, I'll tell you that much.

ATG squats will not wreck your knees... they will not hurt your back... they will hit your entire upper thigh, and that is a good thing. Good form, control, and check your ego at the door.

[Melvin Mendes]

Point well taken. Once I figure out how to post pictures I'll put some up. thanks

[mike_d]

Funny, I know lots of wise men in the weight sports who recommend ATG squats. No injuries, in fact in a controlled manner these are more useful and less prone to injuries than a parallel squat. Injury is a very minor issue where this is concerned. I have been involved in power lifting and bodybuilding since the age of 15, and I've yet to see anyone, in 15 years, hurt themselves while properly performing a squat. I've seen LOTS of people hurt themselves by not having good balance, but goofing off, by trying to lift with their ego... but never once have I seen a kneecap just come all undone due to deep squats... or parallel. Can it happen? Yes. Injuries and accidents happen, and yet it doesn't mean that NOBODY should ever attempt deep squats.

That being said, hate it or love it, parallel squats are the powerlifting meet standard. If you can't get down at least that far, you are just fooling yourself. Get down further into your squat, and you get my respect. You push 400lbs completely outta the hole... you have more to brag about than the guy going parallel, I'll tell you that much.

ATG squats will not wreck your knees... they will not hurt your back... they will hit your entire upper thigh, and that is a good thing. Good form, control, and check your ego at the door.

Just note, he cosigned with my statement that you shouldnt be doing ass to the FLOOR lifts....I think ATG squats are great for most people.

Like I said, I squat deeper than IPF parallel, but not quit so low as to call it a "true" ATG squat. Its still deeper than almost anyone you'll see in a commercial gym.

IPF restrictions are pretty strict on depth, I believe its the top of the thigh must be lower than the knee which is well below a 90 degree angle at the knee joint, especially when you have large quads.


But the statement he made, about doing ass to the FLOOR squats worried me a little, honestly, if your butt is literally touching the floor I see no way that you can maintain proper spinal alignment in that position. ATG yes, AT"F", no.

[fast37]

I like to take it ATG for a handful of sets, never gone over 245lbs yet. After that I load it up and do some heavy squats to just above parallel. But that is just my well rounded theory on it.

[mike_d]

^^^

The way people talk on here you're the devil if you squat above parallel. Deep squats are great, but I dont think you should be forced to squat deep every set. Partials with more weight can probably nail the quads much harder than full ROM's with medium weight. I think the key is mixing it up.



Nobody will give you **** for doing floor presses or rack lockouts (ie: partials) to improve your bench. But at the same time you lose "respect" when you make one squat in your life above parallel

Of course bottom-end partials for squats are an amazing technique too, but I think you have the right idea of mixing it up for maximum gains. Its not like we're all olympic lifters here guys, this is a bodybuilding forum. I say no shame in partial squatting given you have a plan, and that plan also involves full squatting.

[GSP]

But the statement he made, about doing ass to the FLOOR squats worried me a little, honestly, if your butt is literally touching the floor I see no way that you can maintain proper spinal alignment in that position. ATG yes, AT"F", no.

I completely agree. Unless someone has freakish flexibility, getting the butt down literally on top of the heels requires the hamstrings to be completely relaxed, which shifts the weight back onto the knees and pushes them forward - this is definitely undesirable. I think people get hung up on a very specific mental image of ATF or ATG squats (I consider both the same thing), when in reality, they should be the maximum depth the trainee can attain with a flat back while keeping tension in the hamstrings. For the vast majority of people, this will be somewhere below parallel.

[$AJ]

here's an even better idea - people lie.

[Andrew.Cook]

IPF restrictions are pretty strict on depth, I believe its the top of the thigh must be lower than the knee which is well below a 90 degree angle at the knee joint, especially when you have large quads.


But the statement he made, about doing ass to the FLOOR squats worried me a little, honestly, if your butt is literally touching the floor I see no way that you can maintain proper spinal alignment in that position. ATG yes, AT"F", no.

"Upon receiving the Chief Referee’s signal the lifter must bend the knees and lower the body until the
top surface of the legs at the hip joint is lower than the top of the knees. Only one decent attempt is
allowed. The attempt is deemed to have commenced when the lifters knees have unlocked. The bar
may move from its starting position downwards on the lifters back the thickness / diameter of the bar
during the performance of the lift."

http://www.powerlifting-ipf.com/

This position would actually put your thighs at just below parallel... barely below. Basically if your hip and your knee are at the same height, your femur is parallel, regardless of sweep in the thigh. This is the commonly accepted squat depth. However, most people fail to get even this deep into a squat. Going below this is even better, and if you can literally touch your butt to the ground, you are amazing. I think the term is not literal, so much as it denotes the idea that "I squat as low as I can go... which is below parallel" So, you are splitting hairs between the use of "floor" and "ground?" Just making sure I have this right

[mike_d]

I usually aim for about an inch lower than this. The definition of "ATG" is really fuzzy, I think many people would consider this competition-legal parallel squat to be an ATG squat. See pic, excerpt from IPF rulebook on legal squat depth.

[mike_d]

"Upon receiving the Chief Referee’s signal the lifter must bend the knees and lower the body until the
top surface of the legs at the hip joint is lower than the top of the knees. Only one decent attempt is
allowed. The attempt is deemed to have commenced when the lifters knees have unlocked. The bar
may move from its starting position downwards on the lifters back the thickness / diameter of the bar
during the performance of the lift."

http://www.powerlifting-ipf.com/

This position would actually put your thighs at just below parallel... barely below. Basically if your hip and your knee are at the same height, your femur is parallel, regardless of sweep in the thigh. This is the commonly accepted squat depth. However, most people fail to get even this deep into a squat. Going below this is even better, and if you can literally touch your butt to the ground, you are amazing. I think the term is not literal, so much as it denotes the idea that "I squat as low as I can go... which is below parallel" So, you are splitting hairs between the use of "floor" and "ground?" Just making sure I have this right

I didnt see this before I posted


Take a look at the hip crease position relative to the knee....you might be a little surprised.

[Andrew.Cook]

Oh, and just for the record, I think that there is no shame in partial squats. If you have a plan (most people who quarter squat just don't know better), and you do full squats... knock yourself out.

My only parting thought on the subject is that you don't get to claim a 400 lb squat if you are not AT LEAST meeting powerlifting requirements. Just like you don't get to claim a 300 lb bench if you don't touch your chest. I don't care if you do or don't... but PLEASE don't lie to yourself and others about it. What's the point? I have lots of friends who never set foot in a gym. I would most likely "like" most people if they were not bragging, boasting, and trying to impress. Just a bit of philosophy for ya

[Apollo 13]

I completely agree. Unless someone has freakish flexibility, getting the butt down literally on top of the heels requires the hamstrings to be completely relaxed, which shifts the weight back onto the knees and pushes them forward - this is definitely undesirable. I think people get hung up on a very specific mental image of ATF or ATG squats (I consider both the same thing), when in reality, they should be the maximum depth the trainee can attain with a flat back while keeping tension in the hamstrings. For the vast majority of people, this will be somewhere below parallel.

and they are also short. Arnold even mentions in his book that he did alot of heavy half squats to get mass on his legs, because he leaned forward to much on full squats because he was to tall, and that with half squats you can use enormous amount of weight which help him grow.

[Andrew.Cook]

I didnt see this before I posted


Take a look at the hip crease position relative to the knee....you might be a little surprised.

Not surprised at all. The reason this is used instead of the top of the thigh is because when you squat, the crease will roughly be a point at the top of your femur that will represent a parallel depth in relation to the top of your knee.

[mike_d]

Not surprised at all. The reason this is used instead of the top of the thigh is because when you squat, the crease will roughly be a point at the top of your femur that will represent a parallel depth in relation to the top of your knee.

yep. most people think if the thigh is parallel with the knee you're deep enough. I just gave up caring what other people think they squat. I put headphones on and worry about what I'm doing.



I've seen a few videos posted of guys going "ATG" but in reality all their reps are IPF parallel or a touch deeper.

[Hola Bola]

Are these low enough???

415 x 3...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i09-p3CEHBw

315 x 6 w/ heels together...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t38iOC56r8

275 x 12 w/ pauses...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a_aZc_UvX0

[fast37]

Are these low enough???

415 x 3...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i09-p3CEHBw

315 x 6 w/ heels together...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t38iOC56r8

275 x 12 w/ pauses...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a_aZc_UvX0

Stop showing off dick!

[Lencho]

Are these low enough???

415 x 3...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i09-p3CEHBw

315 x 6 w/ heels together...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t38iOC56r8

275 x 12 w/ pauses...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a_aZc_UvX0

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say yes.

[KrushR]

I'm a fairly strong dude, and I consider my ATG squats fairly heavy at 315x5. For me, the definition of ATG is as far as I can go down until the motion stops. Personally, it's a good amount below parallel, probably 15 degrees or so. 315 is a real push for me at this depth, especially x5, and after having done 135, 185, 225, 275, respectively. I can't imagine doing much more weight at this depth. If I went back to parallel I might be able to do more volume, but I get a great feeling from my version of ATG, both in stretch and work performed.

For the record, there's a big difference between doing partials for the right reasons and stepping under something that's too heavy for you and doing a few crappy reps.

[ShreddedShruggin]

So basically what you're asking is......why are you so weak?

Hindu squats do ****-all for leg growth and squat strength. I know plenty of 16 and 17 year olds who can squat much more than 300....its not that impressive of a number. If you're so obsessed about strength, take up powerlifting.

-Shruggin