Writeup for Rippetoe's program

[forzajuve]

Hi, I was wondering if anybody could answer my question.

Basically I started a 3 day split about 2 months ago, my diet has been really clean and I've gained a pound a week consistently. Over the 2 months I gained 8 pounds exactly. The only problem is my lifts haven't really increased, particularly my bench, also any arms exercises such as barbell curls etc. I have seen the best gains on my lower body stregth wise. This is where I am confused as my body fat hasn't gone up. Sure I look a little bit bigger but I just expected an 8lb increase to be more noticeable and a much bigger increase in strength.

So, I assume that my diet is fine and that my workout is the problem.

Finally my question (!), would it be worth switching to this program and would I still see the same benefits as if I had never lifted before.

I have read both arguments for and against full body and 3 day splits. I guess I should try something new as my body must not be responding very well.

Thanks for any help.

[highpower1111]

3) Do NOT NOT NOT look up! This is ridiculous! This forces your upper body to lean forward slightly as it will naturally put the bar off center. Just look forward, i.e. neck in a "neural" position. If you were to stick a grapefruit underneath your chin and hold it there for the duration of the squat, your upper back and neck would maintain proper alignment. You'd also look liike a jackass, but that's beside the point.

This is pretty important and i have heard people tell others to look up when they squat. It is something you definitely should not do because looking up can put mroe stress on the back.

[outofshape111]

thanks for the reply, i use your advice when i squat now..... i also found my neck was sore the first few times, but now it feels fine

the one thing i still am not sure of is how wide to put my feet when i squat...... i go A2G btw....... does Rippetoe say to go A2G or what?

anyway, i came to this thread again for a purpose. in this thread, he says workout A is squat,bench,deadlift, and B is squat, mili press, row/clean.........

is this exactly how it is in the book? because i have seen other people post slightly different routines saying its the rippetoe one...... in particular, they use the same exercises but A and B is different. for example i have seen one guy who did squat-press-deadlift and squat-bench-row, instead of whats mentioned here........

are these exercises interchangable? do the results vary depending on how you do it? is it important or doesn't really matter?

thanks a lot for any help

[kethnaab]

the one thing i still am not sure of is how wide to put my feet when i squat...... i go A2G btw....... does Rippetoe say to go A2G or what?

from Starting Strength, Mark Rippetoe:

"The recommended stance is heels at about shoulder width apart, toes pointed out at about 30 degrees. 'About' refers to the uncertainty inherent in trying to make humans move like we want them to when we don't know whetheer they can. Stance is a highly individual thing, and will vary with hip width, hip ligament tightness, femur and tibia length and proportion, adductor and hamstring flexibility, knee joint alignment, and ankle flexibility. Everybody's stance will be slightly different; any effort to make all trainees conform to footprints painted on the floor is evidence of fuzzy thinking"

www.startingstrength.com - go there and buy the book. Best $30 you'll ever spend. I've been lifting 20 years and I found a TON of **** in there that was useful to ME. and I already think I know it all!

anyway, i came to this thread again for a purpose. in this thread, he says workout A is squat,bench,deadlift, and B is squat, mili press, row/clean.........

actually, Mark Rippetoe says to do cleans. Most people are a lot more comfortable doing rows than cleans since so few people know how to do them properly, but rows are significantly easier to do.

both cleans and rows are outstanding exercises, you really can't go wrong with either one. power cleans will do a bit more for your lower body, overall pulling power and traps, rows will do a bit more for your lower back, lats and upper back. Both are kickass. you can't really go wrong with either, but Mark Rippetoe SPECIFICALLY recommends th epower clean because it is such a good exercise to teach the importance of explosiveness in developing strength.

That being said, a properly performed barbell row is better than an improperly performed power clean. without a coach, power cleans are probably tougher to get the hang of, and rows are a little easier or "more natural"

go here to see a vid of the power clean (And some vids of the front squat and back squat as well - very good vids)

http://www.aceathlete.com/hatch/video.htm

[ptking403]

Hey i'm new to this whole body building thing, i want to gain muscle weight, and i dont know how to do it, i'm 6'2, 198 pounds, could someone please tell me what work-outs are best for begginers and the supplements i should take. Also i was reading some of the workouts posted, when you write 3x5, does that mean three sets of five reps??

[forzajuve]

A few quick questions, I would appreciate any help.

-What angle rows are we talking about here, is 45 degress ok that is what I usually do with bent over rows.

-Am i right in thinking that with squats being in every workout, I should go heavy, light, heavy (for example if I was doing Monday, Wednesday, Friday as my weekly split).

- I gain weight quite easily and already have a good diet worked out which I have been gaining a pound a week consistently on for the last 2 months, is it really necessary to eat to so much over my maintenance (e.g. 3000 calories) to see the best results.

Thanks again.

[kethnaab]

ptking, 3x5 means 3 sets, 5 repetitions, with the same weight each set. if you get all 5 repetitions on all 3 of your sets, you would move the weight up next time

forzajuve, ideally, rows will be done with your body parallel to the floor. Go here and wade through to the bottom where I describe (and post a nifty pic) of how to do the row properly (known as "Pendlay rows" or "JS Rows"
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...37&postcount=2

if you are new to squatting, you will be able to add weight to the bar each workout. You continue to do this until you don't get all your repetitions. At that point, you move the weight back a bit, and have at it again, adding weight each week. Once you get to the point where you simply cannot do this, you reevaulate.

If you know your diet and know what your body is capable of through experimentation, then you don't have to eat everything in sight. However, understand that gaining a little bit of fat is not going to kill you and can help you gain additional muscle. Ultimately, it's up to you. if 3000 kcal is your maintenance, you should at least up the calories to 3500, unless you are already chubby

[wjax]

I am pretty tall with long legs and have found that if I do Pendaly rows in a power rack with the safety pins set at the lowest position (bar is several inches higher than if I let it sit on the floor with 35's on the bar) my back is perfectly parallel to the floor. So is it okay to do these "rack rows" instead of lowering all the way to the floor where my back goes a bit below parallel? The rack method seems easier on my back.

[kethnaab]

I am pretty tall with long legs and have found that if I do Pendaly rows in a power rack with the safety pins set at the lowest position (bar is several inches higher than if I let it sit on the floor with 35's on the bar) my back is perfectly parallel to the floor. So is it okay to do these "rack rows" instead of lowering all the way to the floor where my back goes a bit below parallel? The rack method seems easier on my back.

if you are honestly at parallel with your arms stretched out and the bar on the rack, then yeah, go for it. As long as you deweight and you are parallel, then that is a good starting position.

[forzajuve]

Thanks for your help.

[ptking403]

So, if i do the rippetoes program, and Eat alot of protein and all those calories, would'nt i get fat, instead of gain muscle? all those calories kind of alot.

[RavensFan2k3]

So, if i do the rippetoes program, and Eat alot of protein and all those calories, would'nt i get fat, instead of gain muscle? all those calories kind of alot.

yeah you would get fat, if you werent lifting weights. You have to remember that you are lifting weights...and all of this eating is going toward that. Lifting of the weights isnt what builds the muscle, its the food that goes to the muscle after you haved lifted the weights...Lifting weights tears your muscles, and the food repairs them and makes them bigger and stronger!

[ptking403]

oh ok, thanks man

[ptking403]

i have whey protein, Glutamine, Muscle Milk, and Creatine. Do i need any more supplements??

[demen_demen]

if you do squats every other day going heavy would it be possible to use the same weight or even heavier? wouldnt ur legs be sore all the time. can anybody who does this tell me how it feels? thanks

[Jaybo82]

will these excercises be bad for my knee as it has been 2 years since my knee reconstruction. my knee cracks sometimes and isnt really sore but i can feel its different. do you guys think it will benifit my knee as i really enjoy lifting weights. squats im worried about although my technique is corroect and im going all the way down
thanks

[Par1ah]

So do we take all sets to failure?

I mean I know that my 5 rep max for military press is 150lbs so do i do that on the 1st set then lower the weight for the next 2 sets to stay at 5 reps?

Or do I start with say 140lbs 1st set and stop at 5 reps, even though i can do more... then up the weight on second and do my 150lbs on 3rd?

Why not just do 6 reps to failure .... rest... 5 reps to failure... rest 4 reps to failure...

Whats the benefit in me lifting 140lbs for 5 reps when i can do more?


Im confused...

[RavensFan2k3]

So do we take all sets to failure?

I mean I know that my 5 rep max for military press is 150lbs so do i do that on the 1st set then lower the weight for the next 2 sets to stay at 5 reps?

Or do I start with say 140lbs 1st set and stop at 5 reps, even though i can do more... then up the weight on second and do my 150lbs on 3rd?

Why not just do 6 reps to failure .... rest... 5 reps to failure... rest 4 reps to failure...

Whats the benefit in me lifting 140lbs for 5 reps when i can do more?


Im confused...

you use a weight lower than your 5RM to begin with. Like you said 140 for military press. You use the weight for 3 sets of 5, even though you can do more. You dont increase the weight each set...or decrease it. You keep it the same. You increase it each workout. The benefit is to be able to keep adding weight to the bar each workout. If you go to failiure, you'll be hella sore and then it will be hard to add weight to the bar and so on...

[Par1ah]

ahh ok i think i get you...

So I lift 140lbs for 1st set which will make 2nd set of 140lbs harder then 3rd set will be harder again causing me to fail at 140?

Hmm so your saying 140lbs at 3 sets is greater than 150lbs to failure x 3 - im not convinced.

I still tend to think 6 fail, 5 fail, 4 fail would be just as good if not better, since i never really get sore at all doing low rep work....

[Chris Tempest]

Take the program how it is, not with your own modifications. It is structured that way for a reason. Were you not satisfied when you read that Rippetoe addes 30-40 lbs to his trainees in less than a year?


Do it EXACTLY how it is presented and you will see great gains.

Heh, Good answer!

I was satisfied.

Couple of questions though,

1. What is the science behind training each muscle group with the same reps more than once/week?

2. The diet you posted which you run doesnt seem to have a lot of protein or calories in it, did you still make good gains?

3. The program states if you're lifting less than 150lbs on a work set you dont need the third warmup, you also dont need to warm up on every exercise. So could you just do the warmups for the first exercise of the day and not bother with the warmups for the other exercises?

4. What happens after week 2, do you switch back to week 1s workouts?

5. If you use say 160lbs for your working sets of squats on monday, will you be able to use the same on Wednesday, or what I mean is should you be using the same on Wednesdays workout.

6. When you increase the weight on an exercise next workout, you should be lifting this increase on all of your working sets right?

Thanks,

[RavensFan2k3]

ahh ok i think i get you...

So I lift 140lbs for 1st set which will make 2nd set of 140lbs harder then 3rd set will be harder again causing me to fail at 140?

Hmm so your saying 140lbs at 3 sets is greater than 150lbs to failure x 3 - im not convinced.

I still tend to think 6 fail, 5 fail, 4 fail would be just as good if not better, since i never really get sore at all doing low rep work....

no..you DONT want to lift to failure. How the hell are you going lift to failure three times a week? You'll kill yourself. If you dont like this routine, do another one. No oneis forcing you to do it. Iits proven to work, so you wont convince anyone otherwise.

Heh, Good answer!

I was satisfied.

Couple of questions though,

1. What is the science behind training each muscle group with the same reps more than once/week?

2. The diet you posted which you run doesnt seem to have a lot of protein or calories in it, did you still make good gains?

3. The program states if you're lifting less than 150lbs on a work set you dont need the third warmup, you also dont need to warm up on every exercise. So could you just do the warmups for the first exercise of the day and not bother with the warmups for the other exercises?

4. What happens after week 2, do you switch back to week 1s workouts?

5. If you use say 160lbs for your working sets of squats on monday, will you be able to use the same on Wednesday, or what I mean is should you be using the same on Wednesdays workout.

6. When you increase the weight on an exercise next workout, you should be lifting this increase on all of your working sets right?

Thanks,

1. Working a muscle frequently(2-3 times a week) has been proven to better stimulate strength and size.

3. I would still atleast 1 warmup set before getting into your working sets.

4. You do the other workout every other workout. For example one week its A, then B, then A(Mon, wed, fri). You ended with workout A, so next week it will be B, A, B. And then so on and so on.

5. The goal is to increase the weight each workout.

6. Yes, you increase the weight for all the working sets

[Chris Tempest]

no..you DONT want to lift to failure. How the hell are you going lift to failure three times a week? You'll kill yourself. If you dont like this routine, do another one. No oneis forcing you to do it. Iits proven to work, so you wont convince anyone otherwise.


1. Working a muscle frequently(2-3 times a week) has been proven to better stimulate strength and size.

3. I would still atleast 1 warmup set before getting into your working sets.

4. You do the other workout every other workout. For example one week its A, then B, then A(Mon, wed, fri). You ended with workout A, so next week it will be B, A, B. And then so on and so on.

5. The goal is to increase the weight each workout.

6. Yes, you increase the weight for all the working sets

Thanks for the speedy reply!

As this program aimed at complete beginners or just beginners. I've been lifting for almost a year now with minimal results, some good intial weight gain and strength but it slowly tapered off and my strength in most exercises except from squat and dead is terrible. I'm sure this program will suit me perfectly as I've just come off a high rep/volume routine.

One problem I may have is, I've not increased my squat in a good few weeks so what will the procedure be for this?

Drop the weight a bit and start working it up again?

Thanks,

[RavensFan2k3]

Thanks for the speedy reply!

As this program aimed at complete beginners or just beginners. I've been lifting for almost a year now with minimal results, some good intial weight gain and strength but it slowly tapered off and my strength in most exercises except from squat and dead is terrible. I'm sure this program will suit me perfectly as I've just come off a high rep/volume routine.

One problem I may have is, I've not increased my squat in a good few weeks so what will the procedure be for this?

Drop the weight a bit and start working it up again?

Thanks,

well yeah, I wouldnt start with your 5 rep maxes. I dont know how much exactly of a beginner one must be to use this program. But I assume it would work regardless. If not you could try this routine.

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

It had pretty much the same concepts, but doesnt go at them the same exact way. Its for intermediate lifters. Again I dont know how you determine if someone is intermediate or beginner. My guess is beginner is someone who had never lifted weight before. Then intermediate is whatever is after that. And then there is a huge gap between intermediate and advanced

[Par1ah]

no..you DONT want to lift to failure. How the hell are you going lift to failure three times a week? You'll kill yourself. If you dont like this routine, do another one. No oneis forcing you to do it. Iits proven to work, so you wont convince anyone otherwise.

heh, the only muscle you work 3 times a week to failure is legs... How is working chest on monday to failure then again on friday too much?

[RavensFan2k3]

heh, the only muscle you work 3 times a week to failure is legs... How is working chest on monday to failure then again on friday too much?

well it will add up and remember, you are using your triceps in all those pushing movements(bench, military). I'm just saying that it will catch up to you. Thats why you should start out slowly with weights lower than your 5RM.

[Par1ah]

well it will add up and remember, you are using your triceps in all those pushing movements(bench, military). I'm just saying that it will catch up to you. Thats why you should start out slowly with weights lower than your 5RM.

hmm true....

I wonder how it would work if you re-araged the split so that tris get hit all on the same day something like.....

Workout A

Bench
Military Press
Tricep work
Deadlift

Workout B

Rows
Pull ups
Squats
Bicep work

[RavensFan2k3]

hmm true....

I wonder how it would work if you re-araged the split so that tris get hit all on the same day something like.....

Workout A

Bench
Military Press
Tricep work
Deadlift

Workout B

Rows
Pull ups
Squats
Bicep work

see if you are messing with the program, you arent doing it right. The point of a program is to follow it as it is written, not to adjust it because you dont like it. You should just follow it as it was made. I dont understand why you wouldnt want to do it the way it was made in the first place.

[Par1ah]

see if you are messing with the program, you arent doing it right. The point of a program is to follow it as it is written, not to adjust it because you dont like it. You should just follow it as it was made. I dont understand why you wouldnt want to do it the way it was made in the first place.

Ahh i dunno, I just like the feeling of working a muscle to failure :P stopping when you can do more seems like wanting to get somehwere fast and walking instead of running......

[RavensFan2k3]

Ahh i dunno, I just like the feeling of working a muscle to failure :P stopping when you can do more seems like wanting to get somehwere fast and walking instead of running......

I understand what you are talking about...but soon the workouts will be like that eventually. If you start right away working to failure after acouple weeks, you wont be able to workout anymore and you'll be saying how this program didnt work even though you didnt do it right. You see what I am saying?

[Par1ah]

I understand what you are talking about...but soon the workouts will be like that eventually. If you start right away working to failure after acouple weeks, you wont be able to workout anymore and you'll be saying how this program didnt work even though you didnt do it right. You see what I am saying?

hmm no i dont... You said you never goto failure?