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  1. #1
    Registered User Richie's Avatar
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    Best Anti-Estrogen

    Hi All,

    Haven't been here in quite a while and see many new people so that's great.

    My reason for popping in now is to ask those who have tried anti-estrogen supps and their experiences with them. Good or bad.

    I'm having problems with stubborn body fat that i do believe is estrogen related.

    I'm going to make an order soon so some feedback would be great.

    Hope Fitnessman and ChiTown are still around and doing well.

    Thanks to the rest.

    Richie
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  2. #2
    I want a PB&J Mr. Someday's Avatar
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    Have you had blood work done that shows abnormal estrogen levels? If not, how do you know it is estrogen related? Much more common for women to have estrogen related fat issues than men. If you truly do have issues there, the only OTC supp I can think of that is effective is 6-OXO. My wife has used it with great success.

    If you're looking for help with the grey market anti-e's, post in the steroid section as any discussion of that will get locked down in here.
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  3. #3
    …k em řůrsmaūr Minotaur's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Richie View Post
    Hi All,

    Haven't been here in quite a while and see many new people so that's great.

    My reason for popping in now is to ask those who have tried anti-estrogen supps and their experiences with them. Good or bad.

    I'm having problems with stubborn body fat that i do believe is estrogen related.

    I'm going to make an order soon so some feedback would be great.

    Hope Fitnessman and ChiTown are still around and doing well.

    Thanks to the rest.

    Richie
    If it's deep belly fat (protruding but hard gut) it could be either estrogen-related or insulin resistance. If it's all-over stubborn body fat it could be thyroid-related.

    Some blood work to ask for:
    Thyroid panel (TSH, Free T4, Free T3)
    Fasting glucose and fasting insulin
    Oral glucose tolerance test
    Estradiol
    Testosterone

    If thyroid panel shows TSH >2 and or Free T4 <1.5 and/or Free T3 <3.0 thyroid could be underactive. The lab ranges doctors use for "normal" are way too wide.

    Fasting glucose and insulin should not be over the top of the lab range, ogtt should not show impaired glucose tolerance.

    Any of those test results singly or together out of whack could be the cause of the stubborn fat.

    And then of course there is Occam's Razor: The simplest solution tends to be the right one. That is, revisit your diet and exercise.
    "Go home, have a beer and smash something. Thatís what I would do" - Unknown (but probably Thor).
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  4. #4
    Registered User m1212's Avatar
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  5. #5
    Future NGA Pro FitIron's Avatar
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    Excellent points!

    Originally Posted by Mr. Someday View Post
    Have you had blood work done that shows abnormal estrogen levels? If not, how do you know it is estrogen related? Much more common for women to have estrogen related fat issues than men. If you truly do have issues there, the only OTC supp I can think of that is effective is 6-OXO. My wife has used it with great success.

    If you're looking for help with the grey market anti-e's, post in the steroid section as any discussion of that will get locked down in here.
    Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    If it's deep belly fat (protruding but hard gut) it could be either estrogen-related or insulin resistance. If it's all-over stubborn body fat it could be thyroid-related.

    Some blood work to ask for:
    Thyroid panel (TSH, Free T4, Free T3)
    Fasting glucose and fasting insulin
    Oral glucose tolerance test
    Estradiol
    Testosterone

    If thyroid panel shows TSH >2 and or Free T4 <1.5 and/or Free T3 <3.0 thyroid could be underactive. The lab ranges doctors use for "normal" are way too wide.

    Fasting glucose and insulin should not be over the top of the lab range, ogtt should not show impaired glucose tolerance.

    Any of those test results singly or together out of whack could be the cause of the stubborn fat.

    And then of course there is Occam's Razor: The simplest solution tends to be the right one. That is, revisit your diet and exercise.
    Both of the above make excellent points. Do have the test done.

    Make ANY anti-estrogen protocols a last resort.
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  6. #6
    Registered User Richie's Avatar
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    Thanks All,

    Going through a process of elimination.

    Diet and exercise are always in check but i just remember it being much easier to hold condition.

    All body parts are reasonably full but just finding it very hard to get rid of the waist fat and looked at many things including estrogen/test ratios.

    Minotaur, i'll make a note of the tests you mentioned and take them along to my G.P. although i usually prefer to self diagnose and self treat. (Hey, Its a hobby and it usually works)

    After a bit of research i was thinking of trying NovadexXT (Gaspari) or Restore (****) and see what happens.

    Mr. Someday, could you describe "great success" with the 6-OXO. Thanks.

    Back soon, Richie
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by Mr. Someday View Post
    Have you had blood work done that shows abnormal estrogen levels? If not, how do you know it is estrogen related? Much more common for women to have estrogen related fat issues than men. If you truly do have issues there, the only OTC supp I can think of that is effective is 6-OXO. My wife has used it with great success.

    If you're looking for help with the grey market anti-e's, post in the steroid section as any discussion of that will get locked down in here.
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  8. #8
    I want a PB&J Mr. Someday's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Richie View Post

    Mr. Someday, could you describe "great success" with the 6-OXO. Thanks.

    Back soon, Richie
    Well, here is her last prep using 6-OXO as her primary assistance. Obviously, her diet was damn near impeccable, she was doing a ****load of cardio and was running an ECA stack along with it, but I know she managed to keep her strength levels up while dropping bodyfat and doing 10-12 hours/week of cardio for a stretch of 2 months. I'm not saying it's all 6-OXO, because it ain't. Anyone on here who has prepped know that some supps work, but they don't do jack **** without the diet and cardio.

    Started....




    Ended..... (16 weeks later)

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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by Richie View Post
    After a bit of research i was thinking of trying NovadexXT (Gaspari)
    I used "THE UNDISPUTED KING OF NATURAL TESTOSTERONE BOOSTERS" and the only thing it did was crap out my libido and make me feel like sleeping 24/7.
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  10. #10
    BRB. Eating... dmangiarelli's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lukamar View Post
    I used "THE UNDISPUTED KING OF NATURAL TESTOSTERONE BOOSTERS" and the only thing it did was crap out my libido and make me feel like sleeping 24/7.
    LOL! Well know that you are not alone. There are lots of folks that suffered the same fate.

    I have tried both Novedex XT and 6 oxo and for my money I'd buy 6 oxo again and again. If you are having bodyfat issues and you want to burn it off why not try one of the Thyroid manipulating products like Thyrotabs? Seems to be really effective.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Richie's Avatar
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    Well, going on Mr Somebodys wife (she must have placed high?) and lukamar's experience I might go with the 6-OXO.

    dmangiarelli, did a search on the Thryrotabs and it seems they have been discontinued.

    A friend of mine has just been in touch and is going to send me some Melatonin and 7-Hydroxy DHEA to try for free so we'll see what happens. Don't know much about either as i didn't think we were allowed to have them here so the ban here must have been lifted recently. woohoo!!!

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  12. #12
    Marty lukamar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dmangiarelli View Post
    Thyroid manipulating products like Thyrotabs? Seems to be really effective.
    Being on Thyroid Meds (synthroid) for some time now, I would strongly advise that no one takes anything to manipulate their Thyroid hormone levels without the care of a qualified physician and supporting blood work. You have no idea how lousy (like you want to die lousy) you can feel with just a small change in your thyroid hormone levels until you have gone through it.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Richie View Post
    Well, going on Mr Somebodys wife (she must have placed high?) and lukamar's experience I might go with the 6-OXO.

    dmangiarelli, did a search on the Thryrotabs and it seems they have been discontinued.

    A friend of mine has just been in touch and is going to send me some Melatonin and 7-Hydroxy DHEA to try for free so we'll see what happens. Don't know much about either as i didn't think we were allowed to have them here so the ban here must have been lifted recently. woohoo!!!

    Richie
    Richie! Good to see you!

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  14. #14
    Tired of being lied to resurrected's Avatar
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    Is this the same person from like 6-8 years ago from the forums? We had our own little forum on yahoo as well?
    Or am I thinking of someone else?
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    Registered User swm1972's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr. Someday View Post
    Well, here is her last prep using 6-OXO as her primary assistance. Obviously, her diet was damn near impeccable, she was doing a ****load of cardio and was running an ECA stack along with it, but I know she managed to keep her strength levels up while dropping bodyfat and doing 10-12 hours/week of cardio for a stretch of 2 months. I'm not saying it's all 6-OXO, because it ain't. Anyone on here who has prepped know that some supps work, but they don't do jack **** without the diet and cardio.

    Started....




    Ended..... (16 weeks later)

    Amazing transformation for 16 weeks. Very well done.
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  16. #16
    Registered User Richie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by resurrected View Post
    Is this the same person from like 6-8 years ago from the forums? We had our own little forum on yahoo as well?
    Or am I thinking of someone else?
    Has it been that long?

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    It sure has.
    I thought you kinda fell off the face of the earth. How are things?
    Life is what passes you by while you are too busy making a living.

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    Why did you put her on 6-oxo?
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    Originally Posted by resurrected View Post
    It sure has.
    I thought you kinda fell off the face of the earth. How are things?
    resurrected,

    :Started a family, (2.5y.o. boy),
    :work (easy but time consuming),
    :studying
    and with training and sleep thrown into the mix doesn't leave much time for anything else unfortunately.

    kinda miss the interaction here like i miss an old friend but i get here and have a browse occassionally.Although not much posting i do use the search button regularly.

    hope all is well.

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    Good luck getting a doc to lower Estrogen if that is your problem. Definitely get the tests. Too low is not good either. So self treatment is tough. I have the same trouble as you now. I could always gain or lose easily. Now only gain fat! My estrogen did test a bit high. The docs won't touch it though. I am trying OTC Indolplex DIM and Myomin for estrogen metabolism now. Hopefully that stuff will get the E2 down.
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  21. #21
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    Bob, I really don't have much faith in regular doctors and i was thinking of just finding a good supp to decrease aromatase. If it works, good, if it doesn't then the worsed that happened is i've blown $50.00-$60.00.

    DIM i have tried and didn't notice anything but when i was on a strict keto diet i dramatically increased my consumption of broccolli and cauliflower and that did exactly what DIM was suppoed to do. I actually gained muscle size and fullness and dropped bodyfat without too much actual weight loss from the scale.

    As i'm 43 now, the anti-aging thing is an area i find interesting and as our laws have relaxed a bit now i'm looking at things like 6-oxo and Melatonin which we were previously not allowed to have.

    You sound much like me, easy to gain and lose but lately losing has become a little more difficult.

    I LOVE doing my own research and self-experimenting though. That's why i love this lifestyle/sport/whatever you want to call it!!!

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  22. #22
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    Originally Posted by Richie View Post
    resurrected,

    :Started a family, (2.5y.o. boy),
    :work (easy but time consuming),
    :studying
    and with training and sleep thrown into the mix doesn't leave much time for anything else unfortunately.

    kinda miss the interaction here like i miss an old friend but i get here and have a browse occassionally.Although not much posting i do use the search button regularly.

    hope all is well.

    Richie
    Sounds like you are doing well.
    PM coming your way, I know you do not remember me though.
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  23. #23
    diet soda addict someday's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MA$$BUILDER View Post
    Why did you put her on 6-oxo?
    he didn't my contest prep guy suggested it and i swear by it. i am naturally heavy....it's my body chemistry.....i may have an easier time putting on size than many girls, but i'll never have been or ever will be a bonerack.

    i had competed several times before and the contest i had done before these pics were taken i was the lightest i'd ever been, but just not as conditioned. i had done all of the same things and it was like my body was stuck and just not doing what i needed to do. i went to an endocronologist and they said i was fine and there was no medical reason for me not to be dropping weight, so my diet guy suggested it. i ramped it up and then down for about 8 weeks and i absolutely was stronger and felt like i had more energy than during any other prep. it was the only time my i actually stayed almost as strong as during the off season. i had no sides at all. i'm getting older and as much as i hate to cop out and say it might play a role in getting leaner i felt that 6 oxo made a huge difference in getting that lean. i'm actually going to start it up again since we just started a new blast of our dc training.
    i'm a fatty now :(
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  24. #24
    Tired of being lied to resurrected's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by someday View Post
    he didn't my contest prep guy suggested it and i swear by it. i am naturally heavy....it's my body chemistry.....i may have an easier time putting on size than many girls, but i'll never have been or ever will be a bonerack.

    i had competed several times before and the contest i had done before these pics were taken i was the lightest i'd ever been, but just not as conditioned. i had done all of the same things and it was like my body was stuck and just not doing what i needed to do. i went to an endocronologist and they said i was fine and there was no medical reason for me not to be dropping weight, so my diet guy suggested it. i ramped it up and then down for about 8 weeks and i absolutely was stronger and felt like i had more energy than during any other prep. it was the only time my i actually stayed almost as strong as during the off season. i had no sides at all. i'm getting older and as much as i hate to cop out and say it might play a role in getting leaner i felt that 6 oxo made a huge difference in getting that lean. i'm actually going to start it up again since we just started a new blast of our dc training.
    Question?
    Did it affect you enough to make your voice deeper? I am wondering about my wife on this. I could do letro but it may be too harsh for her. She cannot drop the weight either. She gave up drinking and works out with a low cal diet. She is 48 and moans about hot flashes and all so I imaging menopause is close by.
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  25. #25
    Registered User Richie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by someday View Post
    he didn't my contest prep guy suggested it and i swear by it. i am naturally heavy....it's my body chemistry.....i may have an easier time putting on size than many girls, but i'll never have been or ever will be a bonerack.

    i had competed several times before and the contest i had done before these pics were taken i was the lightest i'd ever been, but just not as conditioned. i had done all of the same things and it was like my body was stuck and just not doing what i needed to do. i went to an endocronologist and they said i was fine and there was no medical reason for me not to be dropping weight, so my diet guy suggested it. i ramped it up and then down for about 8 weeks and i absolutely was stronger and felt like i had more energy than during any other prep. it was the only time my i actually stayed almost as strong as during the off season. i had no sides at all. i'm getting older and as much as i hate to cop out and say it might play a role in getting leaner i felt that 6 oxo made a huge difference in getting that lean. i'm actually going to start it up again since we just started a new blast of our dc training.
    You've done well and you look fantastic. Big thumbs up from down here and best of luck for future shows.

    Definitely know what i'm ordering now.

    Richie
    Fueled By Fat.

    hmmm, steak and eggs!!
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  26. #26
    diet soda addict someday's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by resurrected View Post
    Question?
    Did it affect you enough to make your voice deeper? I am wondering about my wife on this.
    i've had voice issues not deepness, but more like crackling. everyone assumes i have a cold. thing is i can't say what it's from because it been weird for almost 2 years now and i have used 6 oxo for that long.

    i really had no sides other than skipped periods which always happens during contest prep to me.
    i'm a fatty now :(
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  27. #27
    Registered User Dutchman's Avatar
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    Richie, I remember you from years ago. Now being 66 I am very concerned about Estrogen, especially Estradiol. I have had excellent success for the last year using Formastane mixed in Penetrate. Lately I have started using Progesterone applied 2X ED. This has cut down my Estrogen and given me great protection against Prostate cancer.
    Dutch

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  28. #28
    Registered User Richie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Richie, I remember you from years ago. Now being 66 I am very concerned about Estrogen, especially Estradiol. I have had excellent success for the last year using Formastane mixed in Penetrate. Lately I have started using Progesterone applied 2X ED. This has cut down my Estrogen and given me great protection against Prostate cancer.
    Dutchman, Geez it's nice to be remembered. We just need some beers now and we got a reunion!!! But where is Chitown?

    I've just ordered some 6-oxo which i've read only good things about. Anything negative about it has been from the "younger" crowd. Good to hear from you.

    Where did you get the Formastane mixed in Penetrate? Don't know much about that but give me a week and i'll know it all. I've got a list of banned substances here so i'll run through it and see if it's there. If not then i'll give it a try when i'm done with the 6-oxo.

    Richie
    Fueled By Fat.

    hmmm, steak and eggs!!
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  29. #29
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    Originally Posted by lukamar View Post
    Being on Thyroid Meds (synthroid) You have no idea how lousy you can feel with just a small change
    From driving a race car to pulling a race car. Been on it for close to 20 years.
    stick with it and it WILL pay off
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  30. #30
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    I dont know how to pull out old posts, but Dutch, there is one in here about 6-9 months ago from baldsnake about doing blood tests before and after taking one of the over the counter anti estrogens for his high estroidal level. Anyway his testosterone went up while his estrogens went back into normal levels.
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