I'd like to agree with you, but I don't think I can. In hospital, they will beef him up and send him home. At home, he will revert to his old coping skills - and those are destructive.
In my view, he has to give his parents the proverbial two fingers, get 'selfish' (I don't mean this in a negative sense), and start taking care of himself. Our bodies are great at adapting to stress. Labourers get callouses on their hands to protect the skin, muscles grow and get stronger in response to the loading put on the; we have evolved through thousands of years of previously unknown experiences and hardships and we have adapted. We have adapted to the STRESSES imposed on us. In Scoch's case, his parents are the stress. But, his current method of adaptation is to destroy himself.
No matter what kind of crap they throw at him, he must be strong enough to take it, but still eat. Since he is under their roof and they are his guardians, he must do as they tell him.
You know, one of the most commonly ignored characteristics of eating disorders is that it is not an individual-only condition. It almost always involves the whole family and sometimes not only does the sufferer of the ED have to change, but so too do other members of the family. And, this is where treating ED becomes very, very difficult. The members of the family who don't have ED often fail to recognise (or do not want to) that they have as much a problem as the sufferer or that they may be contributing in some way to the problems of the sufferer. Some things that spring to mind are mothers who, themselves, have always dieted, an alcoholic or drug-using abusive parent or a parent who pushes the child to unrealistic levels (often in sport, but also in academics).
In Scoch's case, his parents have a LOT of changing to do and I don't know if they ever will. The strike me as people who would be very offended if it was presented to them that they were actually the cause of their child's ED.
Since they are unwilling to change, what is he to do? Should he continue to live in this misery and hope that he lives long enough to get to age 18 so that he can be independent and leave them (bear in mind that he would still lack the skills to beat the condition) or should he force himself to take action now before it's too late.
Waiting until he is 18 is not an option here because he either will die beforehand or he will have to start his recovery afresh then, which will cost an absolute fortune, while at the same time, try to get through college and prepare for the rest of his life. And, college isn't exactly a bed of roses either; it brings its own stresses (I failed first year by the way because moving to a big city at such a young age was very difficult for me). Also, the longer you leave recovery, the harder it is to let go of the condition.
Scoch, sorry for speaking about you in the third person with you looking in, but you must be courageous now and, no matter what your parents say or do, you have to eat that food. Prove them wrong if nothing else.
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Closed Thread
Results 3,001 to 3,030 of 9921
Thread: Eating Disorder Support Group
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08-29-2008, 05:22 AM #3001***Irish Misc Crew***
Out of my mind, back in 5 minutes.
ISSA CFT, SPN, FT, SSC, SFN
NSCA CSCS
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08-29-2008, 08:56 AM #3002www.xccellence.com
FKK.....We don't play
Getting big: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=136802401
- Alan Aragon www.alanaragon.com
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08-29-2008, 10:36 AM #3003
yeah, the hospital is no good. I've been hospitalized twice, once for a week, once for 1.5months. I ate everything they gave me so I could get out as quick as possible and then I reverted back to my old ways, and even worse. During the 2nd hospitalization therapy was a big part but didn't help at all given my state of mind (I need to get out). I did a day program a few times but it was more of the same story there. I didn't really want to be there but needed to get my parents off my back. I truly believe you only get better once you make the decision that you want the ED out of your life and you are willing to do what is necessary to beat it. So until Scoch makes that decision I don't think it matters. The hospital may keep him alive longer by putting some weight on him but it won't help him long term. Only he can help himself for the long term.
Founder of MMDELAD
"Micros Matter Dont Eat Like A Dumba**" (hydrogenated oils, shortening, mono and di-glycerides don't fit in my macros)
Does Not Count Macros Crew
"Think in terms of limits and the result is limitation
Think in terms of progress and the result is progression"
my day:http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=156294333
Training Philosophy to be strong: 1. Pick Weights up off the ground 2. Squat them 3. Push them over your head
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08-29-2008, 01:25 PM #3004
thanks a lot for the advice guys, right now this is the only place i can safely talk about whats going on.
heh, yeah things have been a little rough at home. what makes things a bit tougher is that i want things to improve you know? After a year of meeting with a psychologist (with and without family), sometimes it seems as though things are getting better. Then i get smashed down and realize its all the same. Cant just "give up" either, heh, since anything other than strict "cheerful obedience" is considered rude/disgusting.
your right, its just that i soonafter always start doubting myself, & then self bashing begins again. so i ask for advice again. maybe i should just write the "conclusions" down, or something so i dont revisit it.
yeah, last year when my Pediatrician "diagnosed" me with depression (and contacted child services)/expressed his concerns for how miserable i looked, for months my dad told me i wasnt depressed but just an angry "irrational"/crazy child. When my mom first found out how light i was (120 lbs june 07), she exploded in anger/yelling/rage. My dad still thinks im just "crazy" or "rude" if i ever get angry/frustrated at something he'll say or if i bring up the "past."
iv been REALLY working to find other interests, to cope with the mental side of the ED, books, walk to mall, movies, chores, and simply trying to block out all food thoughts. Coping with depression/self bashing makes it tough though. Mornings/daytime is the worst for me, dont know why (maybe partly due to worry about running out of calories, heh), when the depression/food thoughts kill me the most. know i should be stronger though, ironically one of the biggest things i bash myself for.
my parents arent "evil" people i guesse (guilt in me talking, lol), but like i said, when things get rough, they get really bad. They kind of support me gaining weight, but the way to "support" me is by talking about how bad/****ty/unmuscular i look compared to pre-ED, comparing me to other people (eg "Phelps eats so much, 12k calories, normal people need around that to maintain, he looks good because he eats like that, he obviously eats tons of carbs and no meat unlike kevin), or by trying to make me feel guilty. "if it were me, id be eating cake and candy nothing else, ice cream is how you gain weight, not foods like cereal or rice" "nobody cares about you but us, so stop being sensitive to what we say" "god your arms are so small"
they think im 142 lbs right now, and still use "negative" reinforcement. heh even the positive reinforcement hurt, "you look better now than before, before you looked disgusting, and couldnt even wear a shirt". [which i guesse is kind of true, but coming from a parent hurts a bit more] (yes pathetic)
they choose the "bash kevin till he kills himself from guilt/self worthlessnss and changes" route, which doesnt work too well for me.
sorry for bringing in the other issues guys, know its frustrating to hear me "complain" heh
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08-29-2008, 01:38 PM #3005
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08-29-2008, 02:17 PM #3006Founder of MMDELAD
"Micros Matter Dont Eat Like A Dumba**" (hydrogenated oils, shortening, mono and di-glycerides don't fit in my macros)
Does Not Count Macros Crew
"Think in terms of limits and the result is limitation
Think in terms of progress and the result is progression"
my day:http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=156294333
Training Philosophy to be strong: 1. Pick Weights up off the ground 2. Squat them 3. Push them over your head
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08-29-2008, 02:57 PM #3007
- Join Date: Aug 2007
- Location: Eugene, Oregon, United States
- Age: 35
- Posts: 6,271
- Rep Power: 2211
Hmm, I know that my motivation to eat came when I began to lift so that I could fuel my training and grow. Scoch, do you lift at the moment? If I wasn't exercising, I know I would have zero appetite/motivation to eat other than the tiny amount it takes me to not feel hungry (e.g. 1000ish calories).
Alright, another study-related question... I'm supposed to be "answering" to 3 made-up scenarios where somebody says something that seems to say "being thin is the only way to be" (ex boyfriend says "Size 2 is the ideal size for a woman" or friend says "I decided I will eat nothing but grapefruit from now on until I look good in a bikini").KARMA; reps for life:
matthor-derickonfire-ozfiz-xquick-meyer23-AllGenetix, Beast, Scivation, Lando33
girl81-2 D-spot skater-djaeger3-in10city-Emma-Leigh-bballbrett5, jaim91, imfusio
Not on the list? Don't worry! There's still plenty of chances to achieve good karma.
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08-29-2008, 04:01 PM #3008
Stupid binge eating.
Its definitely a mental thing(I guess everything could be but I digress).
I would say that the binge eating holds some purpose in life(stress, depression, emotional, entertainment, social) and then it becomes a part of your routine and habits and it seems hard to break.
I've found that a lot of visualization and NLP techniques have helped me deal with it.
Asking yourself simple questions when you're in a calm, relaxed place and waiting for your mind to give you the answer.
Strange as it sounds ,it works.
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08-29-2008, 04:43 PM #3009
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08-29-2008, 05:14 PM #3010
Don't you realise that this guy is emaciated, malnourished and has very low muscle mass? This particular forum isn't exactly quite the right place for you to be asking this particular question. Your comment will probably make him feel even worse about himself.
If and when he recovers, things will be different. So, he has to gain weight before he looks healthy again.***Irish Misc Crew***
Out of my mind, back in 5 minutes.
ISSA CFT, SPN, FT, SSC, SFN
NSCA CSCS
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08-29-2008, 05:21 PM #3011
First of all it looks like it sticks out more than it does because he lacks definition in his chest (its practically sunken in as opposed to a muscular one that would stick out).
Second, when you are malnourished your stomach releases gases that can cause that (why you see kids on Feed the Children commercials with pot-bellies). Both circumstances are fixed with normalized eating.Founder of MMDELAD
"Micros Matter Dont Eat Like A Dumba**" (hydrogenated oils, shortening, mono and di-glycerides don't fit in my macros)
Does Not Count Macros Crew
"Think in terms of limits and the result is limitation
Think in terms of progress and the result is progression"
my day:http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=156294333
Training Philosophy to be strong: 1. Pick Weights up off the ground 2. Squat them 3. Push them over your head
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08-29-2008, 05:22 PM #3012Founder of MMDELAD
"Micros Matter Dont Eat Like A Dumba**" (hydrogenated oils, shortening, mono and di-glycerides don't fit in my macros)
Does Not Count Macros Crew
"Think in terms of limits and the result is limitation
Think in terms of progress and the result is progression"
my day:http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=156294333
Training Philosophy to be strong: 1. Pick Weights up off the ground 2. Squat them 3. Push them over your head
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08-29-2008, 05:56 PM #3013
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08-29-2008, 07:14 PM #3014
Had a decent day today. In school I didnt eat the lasagna which was what they were serving and instead had a salad with olive oil and some fruit and yogurt. This was preety sad for one of my 3 meals so I recognized what I did at home and post football practice I guilt freely indulged in some captain toast crunch, and 2 brownies, along with my chicken and veggies. Feel great and am not stressing over it at all which is good progress for me.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do this I keep on doing. (Romans 7:15,17-19)
*90 hour workweek crew*
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08-29-2008, 07:51 PM #3015
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08-29-2008, 07:52 PM #3016
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08-29-2008, 08:37 PM #3017I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do this I keep on doing. (Romans 7:15,17-19)
*90 hour workweek crew*
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08-29-2008, 08:47 PM #3018
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08-29-2008, 09:02 PM #3019I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do this I keep on doing. (Romans 7:15,17-19)
*90 hour workweek crew*
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08-29-2008, 09:17 PM #3020
- Join Date: Jun 2008
- Location: Texas, United States
- Age: 34
- Posts: 1,257
- Rep Power: 546
eh..I know what you mean. The most important thing is just wanting to get better though. Once you have the willpower, you're on the right path.
congratulations on the boxing match by the way I seem to have missed reading about it, but good job.
also, as far as it always lurking in your mind..I completely understand. I have specific examples, but they aren't really pleasant to hear about.
edit: also -
I'm sorry for being hypocritical here, but I can't see a reason for me to want to recover. Obviously I don't want to die, but I don't feel like I'm anywhere near that. My teeth are normal, I'm still breathing, I can go running just fine. Besides slight headaches and lightheadedness, I don't feel like purging and restricting are really hurting me. And it all seems so easy now, and since it's such a huge part of my life, I would miss it if it were gone. I just don't have any motivation to stop.
I know it's a problem though, because it isn't normal. I want to be normal and have a personality, and go out with friends and do fun things like everyone else, but at the same time, I feel really safe just where I am.Last edited by Aeris; 08-29-2008 at 09:47 PM.
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08-30-2008, 01:10 AM #3021
You know, there is a whole philosiphical belief system called Positiveness (I think this is what it is called). Anwyay, I think it's flawed except for newborn babies, but here's a short description.
An object only exists for a newbody baby WHILE they are looking at it. The moment it is taken away from their line of sight, it no longer exists and they have no concept of what it is. People who believe in positveness state that we only know that things exist because we have seen them (adults have memory, so once an object has been seen, or an emotion has been felt, it stays with us; babies don't have this capacity in the first few weeks of life outside the womb).
So, these people believe that there are lots of things out there that exist, but just don't know about it because we haven't experienced them yet. You should be able to relate to this. Recovery is out there but, since you don't know what life is like without the condition (except, perhaps for a few innocent childhood memories), you have no concept of what it is like and, therefore, you are finding it difficult to understand why it is better to recover than to remain as you are. The condition is aslo your control mechanism (except that it controls you, not the other way around), so, from a safety point of view, it's difficult to let go.
Anyway, since you don't know what life is like without the condition, you 'have no reason to want to recover'. So, concentrate on not dying young for now.***Irish Misc Crew***
Out of my mind, back in 5 minutes.
ISSA CFT, SPN, FT, SSC, SFN
NSCA CSCS
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08-30-2008, 01:21 AM #3022
role model for scoch:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=110251411
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08-30-2008, 12:46 PM #3023
Hey guys I am making progress getting over my ED but ever since I started to incorporate foods that I used to not even look at I can never tell when I am full. Like my body has lost all of its function to be able to recognize when Im full. Has anyone had this problem and how did you correct it?
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do this I keep on doing. (Romans 7:15,17-19)
*90 hour workweek crew*
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08-30-2008, 01:18 PM #3024
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08-30-2008, 01:19 PM #3025
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08-30-2008, 01:32 PM #3026
i kind of know how you feel. other than occassionally having trouble breathing if i go to the gym/go for a swim, and feeling tired going up stairs, strangely i actually feel better than i did during the school year (though right now im just chilling at home all day). during the school year, going up the stairs caused immense pain, chronic pain all day, barely walk, etc, but now, 5-10 lbs heavier, (but still really light) i dont feel "as bad", as if my body's adapted to being so light.
im sure as hell not comfortable worrying about calories/feeling 4k is nowhere near enough (my ED equivalent of your ED) but like you, restriction/self bashing/etc has become a "habbit/part" of my life as well.
parents/life at home arent really improving for me either, so i understand the motivation problem.
just remember that theres a much better/happier life available to you in the near future once you recover, even if it doesnt seem that way, (at least what people tell me, heh)
since getting help from people on here, the term "Stay strong" has taken on a whole new meaning for me.
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08-30-2008, 01:40 PM #3027www.xccellence.com
FKK.....We don't play
Getting big: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=136802401
- Alan Aragon www.alanaragon.com
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08-30-2008, 02:04 PM #3028
Wow man I can relate to this so much. I think you should try to find another hobby. For so long diets and losing weight, eating clean, etc. was like so fun to me. I almost did it for entertainment and I am still struggling with that to this day. Sports have helped me alot and they allow me to take my mind off of food when I am playing them. I would recommend you try to find something else that you enjoy. Good luck bro!
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do this I keep on doing. (Romans 7:15,17-19)
*90 hour workweek crew*
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08-30-2008, 02:22 PM #3029
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08-30-2008, 02:38 PM #3030
Lol sorry about that Aeris but the message still applies.
Thanks for maken me look stupid markI do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do this I keep on doing. (Romans 7:15,17-19)
*90 hour workweek crew*
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