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  1. #331
    Registered User X.Factor's Avatar
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    Muscle Milk
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  2. #332
    Bleed the shins! mikedilv's Avatar
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    my number one pick...

    Syntrax Matrix 5.0

    Read www.bodybuilding.com/fun/im1.htm and you will find that the highest quality protein products are going to contain filtered milk protein, filtered whey protein concentrate (not isolate!), and micellar casein. Then google Syntrax Matrix 5.0 and look at the ingredients. If you can find a higher quality protein source, I would love to hear about it! mikedilv@mail.ru Try to convert me!
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  3. #333
    Registered User Ledge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mikedilv
    Syntrax Matrix 5.0

    Read www.bodybuilding.com/fun/im1.htm and you will find that the highest quality protein products are going to contain filtered milk protein, filtered whey protein concentrate (not isolate!), and micellar casein. Then google Syntrax Matrix 5.0 and look at the ingredients. If you can find a higher quality protein source, I would love to hear about it! mikedilv@mail.ru Try to convert me!

    if Syntrax decided to lose the aspartame in the Matrix, id go for it.
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  4. #334
    Bleed the shins! mikedilv's Avatar
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    Ledge, what is your number one choice?
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  5. #335
    Registered User NorCALSpeed's Avatar
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    im running low on my ON and was looking at gainers as well. as hard as it is to buy all the ingredients for a home gainer (oats, pb, milk, bananas, whey) its cheaper by a long shot. i think my shakes give about 600 cal. and ON lasts way longer. all the gainers just say to use 4 scoops to get 600 cal. so they dont seem to have anything better (such as cyto gainer or muscle milk) they just have u using more scoops. and u go through the tub in about 2 weeks (18 servings ina 10lb tub, 2 shakes a day). i agree buying the expensive gainers is fine if u have tons of money, but youll be reordering every two weeks. ive gained about 6 lbs in 5 or 6 weeks and staying pretty lean.
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  6. #336
    I Am Teh Lolrus stealth_swimmer's Avatar
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    Protein Plus from Met-Rx.
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  7. #337
    ★★★★★ OneBetter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mikedilv
    Syntrax Matrix 5.0

    Read www.bodybuilding.com/fun/im1.htm and you will find that the highest quality protein products are going to contain filtered milk protein, filtered whey protein concentrate (not isolate!), and micellar casein. Then google Syntrax Matrix 5.0 and look at the ingredients. If you can find a higher quality protein source, I would love to hear about it! mikedilv@mail.ru Try to convert me!
    that's flat out wrong. isolate is better then concentrate. anything with just isolate is better, and anything that is pure micellar casein is better.
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  8. #338
    Registered User NorCALSpeed's Avatar
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    ya think he's a sales rep?
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  9. #339
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    1) Yes, isolates have a higher concentration of protein because the protein has been seperated (isolated) from the lactose and fat. However, if you will look at the article (of which is an interview with a guy who has been in protein research and development for numerous protein supplement companies for 25 years and is tired of the deception he reads in their advertisement claims and volunteered for an anonymous interview) you will see that creating an isolate has its costs and benefits. The benefit I mentioned is the shedding of the lactose and fat, resulting in a "purer" protein. The cost is that with the shedding of the lactose and fat, you also lose other key components of the "whole" that are very beneficial to the immune system and your strength gain goals (eg. IGF-1 and other anabolic properties.) Its a lot like flour. Which is better, white, refined, filtered, purified (bleached) flour or whole grains? The flour is "purer" but does that make it better? The flour digests a lot easier and faster, but is that better?

    2) I'm not a product rep. I am a guy who is in the gym 04:25 in the morning and loves to lift heavy! I am an Engineering student at UNLV and minor in Economics. I am an entertainment manager at 3 major Las Vegas resorts. Email me, come to Vegas, and I'll invite you to one of my management offices so you can see for yourself. I'll even buy you coffee!
    Last edited by mikedilv; 08-06-2006 at 09:14 PM.
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  10. #340
    Registered User Ledge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mikedilv
    Ledge, what is your number one choice?
    Beverly Muscle Provider.
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  11. #341
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    Thumbs up

    For pwo protein, Myozene has to be the best.
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  12. #342
    Bleed the shins! mikedilv's Avatar
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    re: Matrix 5.0

    Ok, here is what I know, as an observer. From what I gathered from the article/interview at www.bodybuilding.com/fun/im1.htm the ideal protein supplement is going to consist of filtered milk protein and filtered whey protein concentrate, of which Matrix 5.0 does as its top two ingredients. It is going to have the same concentration as a human mother's milk = 50% Whey and 50% Casein. Casein is by far the predominant protein source in milk, eg. the aforementioned filtered milk protein. Micellar casien is going to be the best form of casein, per the article. Now I do not know if Matrix 5.0 has the 50:50 ratio, but I am hoping it does. So in that aspect, I am taking a leap of faith. However, I will explain why a bit better in a moment. Anyway, note that the casein in Matrix is micellar, according to the label. The aforementioned article states that the advantage of filtered protein over an ion-exchange protein is that filtered proteins retain valuable protein fractions, eg lactoferrin and glycomacropeptides, which are advantageous to the immune system. What is the problem with over training in the gym? The burden it places on the immune system. One of the greatest signs of over training is the onset of a chest cold, nasal congestion, or other respiratory illness. It just seems logicial to me that if we can do anything to assist our immune system to make it stronger, we can train harder. The person interviewed in the article states that peptide bonded glutamine is superior to L-glutamine. Matrix 5.0 has the bonded glutamine. The person interviewed admonishes us to look for companies that do as much as they can to avoid denaturing the protein strands they obtain. If you look at the label on Matrix 5.0, you will see the word "undenatured" used more than once. Also, back to protein fractions, since a protein isolate is a protein strand that has been stripped of it's fat and lactose, a protein isolate is going to lack the anabolic properties, eg IGF-1, that are found in the fat that was shed. Don't we want to minimize our fat and lactose (sugar) intake? In our diet, yes, but the person interviewed states that the fat and lactose levels are low enough on this microscopic level to not be a concern. So, is Matrix 5.0 50% whey and 50% casein? once again I do not know, but it sure seems like they know what they are doing when it comes to eveything else I have listed above, so I am hoping "yes." I suppose if someone really wants to know, they can visit the thread at "bodybuilding.com forums/supplements/syntrax Matrix 5.0 pre-be protein by itself?" to get the address of the laboratory mentioned there, then send $150 and a tub of the supplement to them for composition analysis. Me personally, I am going to keep searching the net for 2 more products that fit the descriptions of an "ideal protein supplement" as described in the aforementioned article. Then I am going to try them. I have been keeping training logs for SEVERAL years and am VERY good at tracking my progress in detail. So, I will try each of the three products. If I make faster gains than I am already CONSISTENTLY making each week now on Exteme Labs protein powder, then I will be a convert and switch over to the one of the three other products that produced the greatest results. Additionally, I will continue making posts like these to stir up comments by those who disagree. If I find that their statements are valid and have more value to me than my beliefs mentioned above, then I will adjust my protein choices accordingly. It's that easy! My only concern with Matrix 5.0 so far is the ingredient aspartame.

    ps. do not let the price of Matrix 5.0 make you question its quality. Filtered Whey protein is said to be A LOT cheaper to make than isolates. In fact, it is said that isolates are so expensive to make that most manufacturers blend them with concentrates to make them more affordable to the consumer.
    Last edited by mikedilv; 08-08-2006 at 05:58 AM.
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  13. #343
    Registered User Anssi Manninen's Avatar
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    IGF-1 will digested in GI track, so it will not have any biological activity whatsoever.
    Manninen Nutraceuticals, Inc.
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  14. #344
    Bleed the shins! mikedilv's Avatar
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    Anssi, I did a bit of research and it looks like you are correct! Kiitos! It looks like it may also be advantageous since there seems to be increasing evidence that high levels of IGF-1 in the human body may increase the risk of cancer. I am in remission and DEFINITELY do not want a relapse!
    ~Now that you are WELL fed and full of high quality supplements, PLEASE visit www.unicef.org and join me in sending at least $5/mo to help children in countries where the leading cause of death in those under age 5 is diarrhea due to inadequate nutrition, antibiotics, clean water etc due to a lack of funding to established aide camps near them. Thank you.~
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  15. #345
    Registered User Tryingtogain's Avatar
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    Higher Power whey

    Reading through this thread, I see I am the only one who uses Higher Power brand whey...do you know all know something that I don't? (Well, I'm sure you do, but I mean about Higher Power). I use the berry and vanilla flavors.
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  16. #346
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    The best protein powder for gaining muscle should be considered as the one used for pwo nutrition. Therefore, using a whey protein hydrolysate is superior to isolate and far more superior than concentrate because of the rapid absorption rate. Myozene has more whey hydrolysates than any other protein powder that I am aware of. It's not my opinion, it's just science.

    And I'm not a Bioquest rep either.
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  17. #347
    Registered User Ledge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tryingtogain
    Reading through this thread, I see I am the only one who uses Higher Power brand whey...do you know all know something that I don't? (Well, I'm sure you do, but I mean about Higher Power). I use the berry and vanilla flavors.
    The Higher Power Whey Protein seems great value, coupled with a very good nutritional profile. Good stuff.
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  18. #348
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    Oh yeah, Myozene isn't cheap either and it tastes terrible!
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  19. #349
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    Originally Posted by mikedilv
    Ok, here is what I know, as an observer. From what I gathered from the article/interview at www.bodybuilding.com/fun/im1.htm the ideal protein supplement is going to consist of filtered milk protein and filtered whey protein concentrate, of which Matrix 5.0 does as its top two ingredients. It is going to have the same concentration as a human mother's milk = 50% Whey and 50% Casein. Casein is by far the predominant protein source in milk, eg. the aforementioned filtered milk protein. Micellar casien is going to be the best form of casein, per the article. Now I do not know if Matrix 5.0 has the 50:50 ratio, but I am hoping it does. So in that aspect, I am taking a leap of faith. However, I will explain why a bit better in a moment. Anyway, note that the casein in Matrix is micellar, according to the label. The aforementioned article states that the advantage of filtered protein over an ion-exchange protein is that filtered proteins retain valuable protein fractions, eg lactoferrin and glycomacropeptides, which are advantageous to the immune system. What is the problem with over training in the gym? The burden it places on the immune system. One of the greatest signs of over training is the onset of a chest cold, nasal congestion, or other respiratory illness. It just seems logicial to me that if we can do anything to assist our immune system to make it stronger, we can train harder. The person interviewed in the article states that peptide bonded glutamine is superior to L-glutamine. Matrix 5.0 has the bonded glutamine. The person interviewed admonishes us to look for companies that do as much as they can to avoid denaturing the protein strands they obtain. If you look at the label on Matrix 5.0, you will see the word "undenatured" used more than once. Also, back to protein fractions, since a protein isolate is a protein strand that has been stripped of it's fat and lactose, a protein isolate is going to lack the anabolic properties, eg IGF-1, that are found in the fat that was shed. Don't we want to minimize our fat and lactose (sugar) intake? In our diet, yes, but the person interviewed states that the fat and lactose levels are low enough on this microscopic level to not be a concern. So, is Matrix 5.0 50% whey and 50% casein? once again I do not know, but it sure seems like they know what they are doing when it comes to eveything else I have listed above, so I am hoping "yes." I suppose if someone really wants to know, they can visit the thread at "bodybuilding.com forums/supplements/syntrax Matrix 5.0 pre-be protein by itself?" to get the address of the laboratory mentioned there, then send $150 and a tub of the supplement to them for composition analysis. Me personally, I am going to keep searching the net for 2 more products that fit the descriptions of an "ideal protein supplement" as described in the aforementioned article. Then I am going to try them. I have been keeping training logs for SEVERAL years and am VERY good at tracking my progress in detail. So, I will try each of the three products. If I make faster gains than I am already CONSISTENTLY making each week now on Exteme Labs protein powder, then I will be a convert and switch over to the one of the three other products that produced the greatest results. Additionally, I will continue making posts like these to stir up comments by those who disagree. If I find that their statements are valid and have more value to me than my beliefs mentioned above, then I will adjust my protein choices accordingly. It's that easy! My only concern with Matrix 5.0 so far is the ingredient aspartame.

    ps. do not let the price of Matrix 5.0 make you question its quality. Filtered Whey protein is said to be A LOT cheaper to make than isolates. In fact, it is said that isolates are so expensive to make that most manufacturers blend them with concentrates to make them more affordable to the consumer.
    Ummm...PARAGRAPHS?
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  20. #350
    Registered User Tryingtogain's Avatar
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    Setting flavor aside, it seems as if those promoting one powder over another base their opinion on either anectdotal evidence ("I switched from X to Y and saw great gains") or theoretical arguments about what SHOULD be better for building muscle. I wonder if there have been any blind studies in which different groups of participants did equivalent workout routines but each group consumed a different type of powder (concentrate, etc.) and the gains were recorded. (Obviously, other diet variables would have to be controlled as much as possible). That's what it would take to convince me that one is better than the other. But, then, I'm a nerd
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  21. #351
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    ON vs Nitro vs muscle milk

    which is better?


    ON

    Nitro

    or muscle milk
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  22. #352
    ††††††††††††††††† powerman2000's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave Kocher
    which is better?


    ON

    Nitro

    or muscle milk
    That is like comparing apples and oranges.
    Racism is completely irrational.

    Raising taxes never created a single job.
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  23. #353
    Bleed the shins! mikedilv's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tryingtogain
    Setting flavor aside, it seems as if those promoting one powder over another base their opinion on either anectdotal evidence ("I switched from X to Y and saw great gains") or theoretical arguments about what SHOULD be better for building muscle. I wonder if there have been any blind studies in which different groups of participants did equivalent workout routines but each group consumed a different type of powder (concentrate, etc.) and the gains were recorded. (Obviously, other diet variables would have to be controlled as much as possible). That's what it would take to convince me that one is better than the other. But, then, I'm a nerd
    Great post! From my personal experience, I don't know that such a study could be done accurately. There are far too many variables eg. amount of sleep, quality of sleep, self-motivation level during exercise, genetic testosterone levels, genetic response to exercise, activity conducted between exercise sessions (sit at a desk for 8 hrs? run packages for 8 hrs? do construction work for 8 hrs?,) strength of his/her immune system, etc.
    I recommend you keep reading the theories and personal experience postings and then try the product that sounds best. If you get good results, great! If you don't, try one of the others. Do this and you will quickly find something that works very well! After that, you will only be doing personal A/B comparisions in search of something that works even better! Don't forget to keep us postd on what works well for you!

    What's worked VERY well for me: Extreme Labs Whey Protein Extreme. Program profile: Powerlifting 4 days per week. 1 hour of cardio 4 days per week. Each cardio session starts with 30 min of swimming followed by 30 min of jogging, sprint intervals, cycling, or rowing.

    Next personal A/B comparision trial: Syntrax Matrix 5.0
    Last edited by mikedilv; 08-10-2006 at 02:19 PM.
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  24. #354
    Almost Positive NATHAN518's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mikedilv
    Ok, here is what I know, as an observer. From what I gathered from the article/interview at www.bodybuilding.com/fun/im1.htm the ideal protein supplement is going to consist of filtered milk protein and filtered whey protein concentrate, of which Matrix 5.0 does as its top two ingredients. It is going to have the same concentration as a human mother's milk = 50% Whey and 50% Casein. Casein is by far the predominant protein source in milk, eg. the aforementioned filtered milk protein. Micellar casien is going to be the best form of casein, per the article. Now I do not know if Matrix 5.0 has the 50:50 ratio, but I am hoping it does. So in that aspect, I am taking a leap of faith. However, I will explain why a bit better in a moment. Anyway, note that the casein in Matrix is micellar, according to the label. The aforementioned article states that the advantage of filtered protein over an ion-exchange protein is that filtered proteins retain valuable protein fractions, eg lactoferrin and glycomacropeptides, which are advantageous to the immune system. What is the problem with over training in the gym? The burden it places on the immune system. One of the greatest signs of over training is the onset of a chest cold, nasal congestion, or other respiratory illness. It just seems logicial to me that if we can do anything to assist our immune system to make it stronger, we can train harder. The person interviewed in the article states that peptide bonded glutamine is superior to L-glutamine. Matrix 5.0 has the bonded glutamine. The person interviewed admonishes us to look for companies that do as much as they can to avoid denaturing the protein strands they obtain. If you look at the label on Matrix 5.0, you will see the word "undenatured" used more than once. Also, back to protein fractions, since a protein isolate is a protein strand that has been stripped of it's fat and lactose, a protein isolate is going to lack the anabolic properties, eg IGF-1, that are found in the fat that was shed. Don't we want to minimize our fat and lactose (sugar) intake? In our diet, yes, but the person interviewed states that the fat and lactose levels are low enough on this microscopic level to not be a concern. So, is Matrix 5.0 50% whey and 50% casein? once again I do not know, but it sure seems like they know what they are doing when it comes to eveything else I have listed above, so I am hoping "yes." I suppose if someone really wants to know, they can visit the thread at "bodybuilding.com forums/supplements/syntrax Matrix 5.0 pre-be protein by itself?" to get the address of the laboratory mentioned there, then send $150 and a tub of the supplement to them for composition analysis. Me personally, I am going to keep searching the net for 2 more products that fit the descriptions of an "ideal protein supplement" as described in the aforementioned article. Then I am going to try them. I have been keeping training logs for SEVERAL years and am VERY good at tracking my progress in detail. So, I will try each of the three products. If I make faster gains than I am already CONSISTENTLY making each week now on Exteme Labs protein powder, then I will be a convert and switch over to the one of the three other products that produced the greatest results. Additionally, I will continue making posts like these to stir up comments by those who disagree. If I find that their statements are valid and have more value to me than my beliefs mentioned above, then I will adjust my protein choices accordingly. It's that easy! My only concern with Matrix 5.0 so far is the ingredient aspartame.

    ps. do not let the price of Matrix 5.0 make you question its quality. Filtered Whey protein is said to be A LOT cheaper to make than isolates. In fact, it is said that isolates are so expensive to make that most manufacturers blend them with concentrates to make them more affordable to the consumer.
    this may be the worst bull**** post i have ever read...you are not even a good shill. matrix is NOT 50% casein...not even 25%
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  25. #355
    Bleed the shins! mikedilv's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NATHAN518
    this may be the worst bull**** post i have ever read...you are not even a good shill. matrix is NOT 50% casein...not even 25%

    What can I say, ingredients on a label are listed by quantity. Matrix has milk protein concentrate as the second ingredient. Wikepedia and other plain-english encyclopedias will tell you that casein is the predominant protein in cow's milk. You scream that Matrix is "NOT" this or "NOT" that, but provide absolutely no evidence to support your claim eg. a laboratory conducted product composition analysis. Are you saying it doesn't look like, taste like, smell like, feel like 50/50 mix? What is the foundation of your claim? I truly want to hear your arguement, so that I can continue to refine my own knowledge about today's protein supplements. However, you have to provide sound support for your claims in order to convince me that you are correct.

    Since I do not work for Syntrax, I do not know if it is a 50/50 mix. I am hoping it is at least close to 50/50. The only reason I am taking the leap of faith has been mentioned previously above. Like I said before, I am going to try the stuff. I have had huge success with Extreme Labs Whey Protein Extreme. This Friday, I am going to put the Extreme Labs aside and try the Matrix 5.0 for 1 month. If I make greater gains than I have been making on the Extreme Labs, then I will remain on the Matrix since it will be the only major variable change in my program. If not, I will resume using the Extreme Labs.

    Thereafter, I will continue researching through threads and research documents to find products and theories that people are raving about. After 4-6 months I will put the Matrix (or Extreme Labs) aside for 1 month, try the big rave, A/B my results, and go with the superior product.

    I am 36 years old and have watched this industry since 1991. It evolves! No one company is "the best." The "best product award" changes hands every year. If you want the best, you have to be constantly looking for it predominantly through personal experience comparisons. Anyone who ever compared various forms of androstenedione in the 90s while taking 3000mg/day of Chrysin and one day took 400mg of andro via Andro-6 by EAS knows what I am talking about! I am currently on 300mg/wk of Cypionate and 4mg/wk of Arimidex and STILL do not feel like I did on the aforementioned combination! That was hands-down the best experience I have had with "strength training aides" in 15 years. Had I not taken the time to A/B products via a bit of research followed by several personal experiences, I would have never made that discovery. Since the supplement industry constantly evolves, this has to be a never-ending practice of yours if you want to always stay on top.
    Last edited by mikedilv; 08-11-2006 at 10:22 AM.
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  26. #356
    Registered User Rob__2004's Avatar
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    Optimum vs Higher Power 100% whey

    Higher power 100% whey serving looks better than Optimum nutrition and is also cheaper than Optimum. I dont know many are crazy about Optimum whey

    Higher Power:
    ==========
    Amount Per Serving:

    Calories 133
    Calories from Fat 13
    Total Fat 1g 2%
    Saturated Fat 0g
    Cholesterol 1.5mg 5%
    Sodium 35mg 1%
    Total Carbohydrates 5g 1%
    Dietary Fiber 0g
    Sugar 2g
    Protein 25g

    Optimum Nutrition:
    ===============
    Amount Per Serving:

    Calories: 120
    -Calories from Fat: 10
    Total Fat: 1g
    -Saturated Fat: 0.5g
    Cholesterol: 30mg
    Total Carbohydrates: 3g
    -Sugars: 1g
    Protein: 24g
    Calcium: 140mg
    Sodium: 60mg
    Potassium: 220mg
    Enzyme Blend: 25mg
    -Aminogen --
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  27. #357
    Registered User Doom_Mack's Avatar
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    http://shop.mercola.com/Nutrition_Pr...Pack-P388.aspx

    Whey healthier is the best. All natural, non heated. It tastes good also.

    Read about whey healthier here, its better then the rest.
    http://www.mercola.com/forms/whey_healthier.htm
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  28. #358
    Registered User Doom_Mack's Avatar
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    lol, i just owned everyone here...
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  29. #359
    Bleed the shins! mikedilv's Avatar
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    Post One more for ya!

    One of the benefits of living here in Las Vegas is that you are surrounded by pro and semi-pro bodybuilders. Jay Cutler lifts only a few miles from my home. Craig Titus used to work out here :~) Sean Ray has been working out here at least since the late 90s. Several NFL players are here in the off-season as well.

    Today, on my way to purchase some Matrix 5.0, I ran into one of the monsters living here in Las Vegas. He said that MATRIX 5.0 was a GREAT formula, but recommended I try LOW CARB ISOPURE first, if I had never tried it. It was a bit expensive, but I was assured it was worth every cent. Though I will eventually A/B Matrix, I am going to be trying the LOW CARB ISOPURE as of earlier this afternoon. So far, as far as taste and mix-ability goes, it is great!
    Last edited by mikedilv; 08-12-2006 at 06:32 PM.
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  30. #360
    hmmm....grits taste good Bigdolf's Avatar
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    I've heard some good things about truemass, what do you guys think? I've never really used weight gainer I always stuck with regular protein powders.
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