Quarter Squats to Improve Vertical?

[farzamk]

I was doing some thinking, and saw some videos of verticals. So I was thinking sure we do ATG squats and regular squats to improve the necessary strength for a vertical jump. However how about if me do the same movement involved in the vertical and have you squat heavy on the same movement?

Quarter squats as we know can be done with A LOT more heavier weight than half/parallel or full/ATG squats, and that is the similar movement in a vertical.

So how about as a SUPPLEMENTARY exercise, we do heavy quarter squats (3-4 reps) and do it with a explosive come up. We have supplements in our diet which in this analogy is the regular squats/deads/cleans and quarter squats as supplements for our "diet" to develop one's vertical when lifting.

Thoughts?

[LockdownVert]

I'm not sure. I'm currently working my vertical, but it seems wrong to just improve one side of the equation and not the whole.

What I mean is what if I get into a situation in a game where I really come off a deep jump and all of a sudden I come up limping or i didn't get near the explosion I wanted due to the fact my ROM was extremely limited during my squats?

Thats my reasoning behind it.

[farzamk]

I'm not sure. I'm currently working my vertical, but it seems wrong to just improve one side of the equation and not the whole.

What I mean is what if I get into a situation in a game where I really come off a deep jump and all of a sudden I come up limping or i didn't get near the explosion I wanted due to the fact my ROM was extremely limited during my squats?

Thats my reasoning behind it.

If you read it properly, I said as a supplementary exercise. Regular squats and full squats would be your regular thing, as well as box squats. But quarter to help improve your vertical, dont see how this could possibly hurt you.

[madaozeki]

Maybe it's a case of diminishing returns and lack of specificity of motion? What I mean is that your proposal sounds like a golfer using a weighted club, or a baseball player throwing a shotput instead of a baseball, or some such thing. Perhaps to a small degree such training might be useful, but when pushed too far, the resulting motion is no longer mechanically similar enough to the original to be directly beneficial. Different muscles come into play, the speed of execution is reduced drastically, etc. So maybe quarter squats could help, but only up to the weight where they could still be done explosively (which may actually be what you're suggesting). Unfortunately egos, etc, have a tendency to get in the way and cause people to piles on the plates since they *can*.

Some Olympic lifters do "jerk drives", which is basically the dip and drive of a jerk, trying to get the bar off the shoulders, but not jump under and receive it. The problem is that it's VERY tough to receive the weight again once it's left the shoulders, since it's an overloaded exercise and thus quite heavy. I wonder if explosive quarter squats would be similar, in that the weight is likely to leave the shoulders and come crashing back down...

[Fullback7]

damn you stole my idea out of my head. I was thinking the other day, if high box squats would improve a persons vertical.

[farzamk]

Maybe it's a case of diminishing returns and lack of specificity of motion? What I mean is that your proposal sounds like a golfer using a weighted club, or a baseball player throwing a shotput instead of a baseball, or some such thing. Perhaps to a small degree such training might be useful, but when pushed too far, the resulting motion is no longer mechanically similar enough to the original to be directly beneficial. Different muscles come into play, the speed of execution is reduced drastically, etc. So maybe quarter squats could help, but only up to the weight where they could still be done explosively (which may actually be what you're suggesting). Unfortunately egos, etc, have a tendency to get in the way and cause people to piles on the plates since they *can*.

Some Olympic lifters do "jerk drives", which is basically the dip and drive of a jerk, trying to get the bar off the shoulders, but not jump under and receive it. The problem is that it's VERY tough to receive the weight again once it's left the shoulders, since it's an overloaded exercise and thus quite heavy. I wonder if explosive quarter squats would be similar, in that the weight is likely to leave the shoulders and come crashing back down...

you make a good point, but the whole point is that this is just done sometimes as extra, your regular workout is still the normal squats and other lifts like deads and etc.

[farzamk]

damn you stole my idea out of my head. I was thinking the other day, if high box squats would improve a persons vertical.

lol

I've actually been thinking about this for a while, and Im going to start using it with some to see the results over a period of time.

[DesVaro]

I know Joe DeFranco does use "50 rep rhythm quarter squats"

http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...rty-tricks.htm

Scroll down to dirty trick #4

I know Kelly Baggett also says it could be used as a supplementary exercise ONCE YOU HAVE REACHED APPROPRIATE STRENGTH LEVELS.

But the way Defranco describes it, it seems more to peak for a Vertical Jump TEST. That's the key here, he uses it to improve his athletes' score on a test.

Does it actually transfer to the playing field? Maybe yes, maybe no. With that said, training economy is a key point here. If the main exercises, do get the job done, then there is no need to waste time with quarter squats.

However if it does transfer to the playing field, then definitely use it.

Makes sense?

[LockdownVert]

If you read it properly, I said as a supplementary exercise. Regular squats and full squats would be your regular thing, as well as box squats. But quarter to help improve your vertical, dont see how this could possibly hurt you.

akk, engrish screwed me. I give in your now above my knowledge level and I'll listen.

[farzamk]

I know Joe DeFranco does use "50 rep rhythm quarter squats"

http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...rty-tricks.htm

Scroll down to dirty trick #4

I know Kelly Baggett also says it could be used as a supplementary exercise ONCE YOU HAVE REACHED APPROPRIATE STRENGTH LEVELS.

But the way Defranco describes it, it seems more to peak for a Vertical Jump TEST. That's the key here, he uses it to improve his athletes' score on a test.

Does it actually transfer to the playing field? Maybe yes, maybe no. With that said, training economy is a key point here. If the main exercises, do get the job done, then there is no need to waste time with quarter squats.

However if it does transfer to the playing field, then definitely use it.

Makes sense?

I like the ideaof using it for peaking, but probably wouldnt use 50 reps for it...

[FullChris]

Farzamk, if you do actually go through with this study I would love to see your findings. I like the idea and think it has some validity. The motion of a countermovement jump (a True VJ), where the hands are on the hips or on a bar (like you are doing a squat) is almost identical to a quarter squat. I would think they would have a place in a program as a great supplemental exercise as one got closer to the end of a mesocycle. Is that what you were thinking also?

Chris

[farzamk]

Farzamk, if you do actually go through with this study I would love to see your findings. I like the idea and think it has some validity. The motion of a countermovement jump (a True VJ), where the hands are on the hips or on a bar (like you are doing a squat) is almost identical to a quarter squat. I would think they would have a place in a program as a great supplemental exercise as one got closer to the end of a mesocycle. Is that what you were thinking also?

Chris

Yup, that's what I was thinking.

Wonder how box squats would work with this as fullback said.

[Fullback7]

Yup, that's what I was thinking.

Wonder how box squats would work with this as fullback said.

I didnt even think about this, but most people on here are actually doing close to quarter box squats. I have heard numerous accounts of people box squatting on a bench which is around 3,4, even 5 inches above parallel.

[farzamk]

I didnt even think about this, but most people on here are actually doing close to quarter box squats. I have heard numerous accounts of people box squatting on a bench which is around 3,4, even 5 inches above parallel.

Ya but if anything it is peaking, as defranco I just read uses similar method for verticals.

[FullChris]

Yeah, people do tend to box squat too high. However, this might be something to look into for increased explosion and hip extension.

Hmmm, surely there has to be some research on this somewhere...right?

[Fullback7]

Yeah, people do tend to box squat too high. However, this might be something to look into for increased explosion and hip extension.

Hmmm, surely there has to be some research on this somewhere...right?

No too much. I do know that a high box squat will put most of the work on your quad muscles. I know that with a parallel and below box, different stances will target certain areas more. I think that if you are trying to use this for a carryover to the vert, you would need a shoulder width or narrower stance.

[finfan]

in Kelly baggett's no bull speed development book he says something on this exact thing, I'll find it later

[mickey_b08]

Straight out of the VJB:

Along these same lines many people will ask, ?Since during a vertical jump one only descends into a ? squat position, then why should they do loaded squats with a full range of motion going past parallel?? Again, realize the purpose of strength training is to improve the general strength of the muscles involved. The fact is that a full deep squat is better at strengthening all the muscles involved in the vertical jump, despite the fact that one is capable of using much more weight in a ? squat. A full squat fully activates the muscles of the quadriceps and also strongly engages the hamstrings, glutes, and even
calves. Not only does this build strength, but it also keeps the lower body in
developmental balance and helps prevent knee injuries and muscle strains. A ? squat doesn?t strengthen the muscles of the posterior chain nearly as well and also puts a lot of stress on the tendons of the knee. However, there is a time when the ? squat can be effective. That is after a base of strength has been developed. The ? squat can then be used for short periods for further enhance strength development. If I could throw out one piece of advice to every young athlete in the world it would be,

?Do squats and do them full and deep!?

[farzamk]

Straight out of the VJB:

Along these same lines many people will ask, ?Since during a vertical jump one only descends into a ? squat position, then why should they do loaded squats with a full range of motion going past parallel?? Again, realize the purpose of strength training is to improve the general strength of the muscles involved. The fact is that a full deep squat is better at strengthening all the muscles involved in the vertical jump, despite the fact that one is capable of using much more weight in a ? squat. A full squat fully activates the muscles of the quadriceps and also strongly engages the hamstrings, glutes, and even
calves. Not only does this build strength, but it also keeps the lower body in
developmental balance and helps prevent knee injuries and muscle strains. A ? squat doesn?t strengthen the muscles of the posterior chain nearly as well and also puts a lot of stress on the tendons of the knee. However, there is a time when the ? squat can be effective. That is after a base of strength has been developed. The ? squat can then be used for short periods for further enhance strength development. If I could throw out one piece of advice to every young athlete in the world it would be,

?Do squats and do them full and deep!?

My analogy was using squats as the MAIN training like we do lifting in track, then use drills for specific strength like we use quarter squats here.

Read my posts better, you clearly did not understand that quarter squats are extra and used as a peaking method.

[Jhawk Fitness]

I believe the NSCA published the results of a study a couple of years back that showed minimal improvement from partial-rep squats as opposed to full squats. If one were to incorporate them I could see them being useful a more a power-building tool versus a strength-building tool in a similar way to how one can use "power-shrugs" in the place of power-cleans to achieve the same result with less of a learning-curve.

[finfan]

Straight out of the VJB:

Along these same lines many people will ask, ?Since during a vertical jump one only descends into a ? squat position, then why should they do loaded squats with a full range of motion going past parallel?? Again, realize the purpose of strength training is to improve the general strength of the muscles involved. The fact is that a full deep squat is better at strengthening all the muscles involved in the vertical jump, despite the fact that one is capable of using much more weight in a ? squat. A full squat fully activates the muscles of the quadriceps and also strongly engages the hamstrings, glutes, and even
calves. Not only does this build strength, but it also keeps the lower body in
developmental balance and helps prevent knee injuries and muscle strains. A ? squat doesn?t strengthen the muscles of the posterior chain nearly as well and also puts a lot of stress on the tendons of the knee. However, there is a time when the ? squat can be effective. That is after a base of strength has been developed. The ? squat can then be used for short periods for further enhance strength development. If I could throw out one piece of advice to every young athlete in the world it would be,

?Do squats and do them full and deep!?

that's what I was going to post.

[farzamk]

I believe the NSCA published the results of a study a couple of years back that showed minimal improvement from partial-rep squats as opposed to full squats.

was this a program? If so, then OBVIOUSLY! No need for a study to show that the goal of the weight room is to strengthen muscles involved. Quarter squats are specific strenghtening

[Jhawk Fitness]

was this a program? If so, then OBVIOUSLY! No need for a study to show that the goal of the weight room is to strengthen muscles involved. Quarter squats are specific strenghtening

Go read my finished post.

[farzamk]

BEFORE commenting READ MY PREVIOUS POSTS!!!!

Geez... 50 straight posts literally of me saying quarter squats are used to:

PEAK

and are:

SUPPLEMENTARY

The REAL EXERCISES OF ONE'S PROGRAM ARE:

THE REGULAR SQUATS (PARALLEL/FULL)

/rant

[Jhawk Fitness]

BEFORE commenting READ MY PREVIOUS POSTS!!!!

Geez... 50 straight posts literally of me saying quarter squats are used to:

PEAK

and are:

SUPPLEMENTARY

The REAL EXERCISES OF ONE'S PROGRAM ARE:

THE REGULAR SQUATS (PARALLEL/FULL)

/rant

...it seems like most posts are just pointing out that there are other more effective methods of achieving the same results with less spinal loading. No need to blow your stack.

[mickey_b08]

My analogy was using squats as the MAIN training like we do lifting in track, then use drills for specific strength like we use quarter squats here.

Read my posts better, you clearly did not understand that quarter squats are extra and used as a peaking method.

Did you even read what a posted?
Theres your answer, it was there all along.

"However, there is a time when the quarter squat can be effective. That is after a base of strength has been developed. The quarter squat can then be used for short periods for further enhance strength development."

[farzamk]

...it seems like most posts are just pointing out that there are other more effective methods of achieving the same results with less spinal loading. No need to blow your stack.

Sorry but when I end up writing the same post 20x, I tend to get a little on the other side...

[farzamk]

Did you even read what a posted?
Theres your answer, it was there all along.

sorry, just didn't notice it

hard to do with ? squat rather than quarter squat.

everyone please calm down, no big deal, but it is obvious quarter squats have their place.

[Fullback7]

Where in your workout would you put quarter squats? Personally, I dont think I would go Max Effort on them. I would probably use a quarter squat for speed work.

[farzamk]

Where in your workout would you put quarter squats? Personally, I dont think I would go Max Effort on them. I would probably use a quarter squat for speed work.

First thing I'd look at is when to do them for what athlete, so what their sport is, and what they are testing and etc.

As for my sprinters, quarter squats have no place in our program unless we're having a "ego" session for fun like 1-2x a year