Anything and Everything You Want To Know About Westside Training For Athletes

[Fullback7]

I'm getting ready for my West side Barbell certification, so I thought I would answer any questions that yall had about west side training techniques, through my studies and observations. This includes, questions about Joe D's west side template, box squat height, how to vary ME & DE lifts, How to deload, basically everything.... So ask away.

[Retsam]

How would you add in power cleans and snatches into the program? I've been working on my olympic lifts with a certified coach for the past 2 and a half months, still don't have perfect form and I realize that's why Joe didn't include these lifts in the original template but now that I know how to do them I would like to add them in.

[Fullback7]

How would you add in power cleans and snatches into the program? I've been working on my olympic lifts with a certified coach for the past 2 and a half months, still don't have perfect form and I realize that's why Joe didn't include these lifts in the original template but now that I know how to do them I would like to add them in.

Dont even worry about them if you dont have the form down. My belief is that ME and DE box squats, can benefit you just as much as O lifts, if not more.

If you really want to put them in you can, throw them in for the hamstring, or the Unilateral leg exercise. Make sure you only do this once, as a low volume/high intensity lift.. around 3x3.

[crppleman51]

bookmarked*

[Fullback7]

ok....im trying to condense the wsfsb 3 into a 3 day split instead of 4 so i can do it with vjb. so can you give me a template on what you'd do?

You can do the VJB along with WS4SB. As long as you put a certain amount of time between the two. If you can't workout in the A.M. and then back again in the P.M., then I could understand wanting to split this up.

[monatu]

Fullback

There has been a lot written about 1 leg day a week not being sufficient for athletes. Does De Franco's WS4SB leave athletes top heavy (2 upper days, 1 ME lower) or do they get steady development in both leg size/strength from only doing one ME lower lift a week?

Its probly a pretty noobish question, but I was just wondering how the athletes lower body development fares when compared to something like Bill Starrs 5x5 which has heavy squatting 2x a week and heavy deadlifting 1x a week.

Also wondering cause im gonna give WS4SB a shot after im done with the 5x5, probly in a month-month and a half.

Im gonna put ME squats on the ME Upper day though, and then do ME deads with the rest of my lower body on the ME lower day. (im only doing it over 3 days. so monday = ME Upper w/ME Squats. Wednesday = ME deadlifts w/Lower body. Friday = RE upper)

Thanks for any of my Q's you get around to answering.

[Reps n Sets]

fullback, whats your bodyfat percentage?

[Fullback7]

Fullback

There has been a lot written about 1 leg day a week not being sufficient for athletes. Does De Franco's WS4SB leave athletes top heavy (2 upper days, 1 ME lower) or do they get steady development in both leg size/strength from only doing one ME lower lift a week?

Its probly a pretty noobish question, but I was just wondering how the athletes lower body development fares when compared to something like Bill Starrs 5x5 which has heavy squatting 2x a week and heavy deadlifting 1x a week.

Also wondering cause im gonna give WS4SB a shot after im done with the 5x5, probly in a month-month and a half.

Im gonna put ME squats on the ME Upper day though, and then do ME deads with the rest of my lower body on the ME lower day. (im only doing it over 3 days. so monday = ME Upper w/ME Squats. Wednesday = ME deadlifts w/Lower body. Friday = RE upper)

Thanks for any of my Q's you get around to answering.

Defranco has 2 days of legs. You might not think that jumps are a part of leg training, but box jumps can be a very good exercise in place of DE box squats. Even West Side will perform box jumps in place of box squat, although you don't hear about it much.

Defranco is a firm believer in recovery. Box squats can be 10x better than regular squats, while being far less stressful than regular squats. So hitting the regular squats hard twice a week, seems to be much too taxing for more advanced lifters in such a workout for athletes. Another reason why strength will actually progress in WSB training is because of the variation. A lot of people will be on a 5x5 for weeks and even months. They will have incredible gains, and then hit a huge plat. The human body can only hit max effort for so long, and without a variety a plateau can easily come around.

[Fullback7]

i can but i understand that youll need 48 hrs to fully recover. so i was thinking maybe ill take one full upper body and lower body workout and ill combime another to make it 3 days.

You could always just perform the VJB after the ME & DE days.

But If you perform your speed work in the morning before you lift, do the VJB before your speed work.

[Fullback7]

fullback, whats your bodyfat percentage?

I would probably say in the low 20's.

[fnlights]

Fullback,

Ive been following the ws4sb programme (without upperbody work due to the fact i have extremely weak legs in relation to bodyweight). I have also replaced the dynamic workout for a repeated effort day where i try and create hypertrophy in my legs (to promote strength gains in the other workout 'big muscle has more potential to be stronger muscle'- Defranco).
My training week looks like this (offseason)-

Tue- ab circuit

Wed- Repeated effort lower body

Fri- Ab circuit

Sat- Max effort lower body

Am i going the right way about this??? I need to urgently address this strength imbalance as it is seriously affecting my performance.

Thanks

[Fullback7]

Fullback,

Ive been following the ws4sb programme (without upperbody work due to the fact i have extremely weak legs in relation to bodyweight). I have also replaced the dynamic workout for a repeated effort day where i try and create hypertrophy in my legs (to promote strength gains in the other workout 'big muscle has more potential to be stronger muscle'- Defranco).
My training week looks like this (offseason)-

Tue- ab circuit

Wed- Repeated effort lower body

Fri- Ab circuit

Sat- Max effort lower body

Am i going the right way about this??? I need to urgently address this strength imbalance as it is seriously affecting my performance.

Thanks

You can gain strength without adding muscle. Don't fall for that one. The first thing you need to identify is your weakness. Im guessing the lift you are basing your leg strength on is the squat. You could have weak abs, a weak lower back etc.. Also do you not do upperbody? How much core work do you do?

[fnlights]

You can gain strength without adding muscle. Don't fall for that one. The first thing you need to identify is your weakness. Im guessing the lift you are basing your leg strength on is the squat. You could have weak abs, a weak lower back etc.. Also do you not do upperbody? How much core work do you do?

Right, well basically i think i have a weak posterior chain. I had a huge growth spurt 3 years ago and my technique fell apart. I have now identified this as my legs not being able to handle my body weight through the movement. I do the 2 ab circuits a week with a medicine ball and i base my ME around box squats an inch below parrallel. Upper body work is not particularly relevant in my sport (cricket).

What would your suggestions be???

[DavidJr74]

What does your WSFSB split look like fullback? I remember you posting the days you do your running and ME lowerbody/upperbody etc but I can't find it. I was gonna use your template as a way to see how you incorporate your running days.

[vanvan22]

I dont understand the WS4B hype..can someone with out a smart mouth and with common sense explain to me what the fuss is about.

I like DeFranco and I use some of his exercises like DB Floor Presses...and swiss DB presses.

But when you go to his page and look at his athletes that our in the NFL...they are average talents....do they do WS4B or do they just train with defranco.

Just some questions I had.

[JarHeaD316]

Ive been following this program and I wanted to know, can I add some cleans and snatches to the Dynamic Effort Days? Or what is a more proper place to add these explosive exercises

[Fullback7]

Ive been following this program and I wanted to know, can I add some cleans and snatches to the Dynamic Effort Days? Or what is a more proper place to add these explosive exercises

I have seen them incorporated in 2 ways....

1- In place of your upper back work on your ME day
2- Directly after DE Box Squats

The rep range is around 8 singles.

You can decide which is best for you. I would personally do them on DE Lower body, but I have never incorporated them into a west side training regime.

[dansta]

are there any other lifts other then De box squats...sadly there are no boxes at my gym....and the bench is too high for me. Also would increase in calories add mass/muscle while on this prog?

[tmanallstar]

what should you do while "deloading"?

[sea11234]

would it be possible to do ws4sb III with this equipment:

-310 lbs. of weight including bar
-bench with incline, decline, and flat. leg curl and leg exstension.
-two dumbbell bars an 70 pounds of weight(35 for each bar)

[user8765487]

I recently had a bad muscle tear, and now, finished with PT, am starting up west side.

Do you see good gains with the bench component? My chest is lagging far behind my other body parts. Any specific exercise of the set superior to the others, particularly on the ME days?

Thanks for any help.

[RoPaWrastla]

Fullback, can you post a link to the best WS4SB article you know of? I read a T-Nation article about it, but I'd like to know some more and see some other angles about it. I'm thinking about using it during the wrestling offseason, so thanks a ton.

[sizemeup2]

You can gain strength without adding muscle. Don't fall for that one. The first thing you need to identify is your weakness. Im guessing the lift you are basing your leg strength on is the squat. You could have weak abs, a weak lower back etc.. Also do you not do upperbody? How much core work do you do?

ur saying u can gain strength without adding muscle?

[Fullback7]

ur saying u can gain strength without adding muscle?

Yep

[Fullback7]

Fullback, can you post a link to the best WS4SB article you know of? I read a T-Nation article about it, but I'd like to know some more and see some other angles about it. I'm thinking about using it during the wrestling offseason, so thanks a ton.

Read up the articles on elitefts.com, westside-barbell.com, deepsquatter.com, and basically just type in westside training on google.

[Fullback7]

I recently had a bad muscle tear, and now, finished with PT, am starting up west side.

Do you see good gains with the bench component? My chest is lagging far behind my other body parts. Any specific exercise of the set superior to the others, particularly on the ME days?

Thanks for any help.

How is it lagging? Strength wise? muscle?

[Fullback7]

would it be possible to do ws4sb III with this equipment:

-310 lbs. of weight including bar
-bench with incline, decline, and flat. leg curl and leg exstension.
-two dumbbell bars an 70 pounds of weight(35 for each bar)

Ya, but do you not have a rack? Chains, bands, various bars,etc... are nice but as long as you have enough weight you can do WS

[Fullback7]

what should you do while "deloading"?

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/deload.htm

[user8765487]

How is it lagging? Strength wise? muscle?

Strength.

To be honest, I could care less about how much actual muscle I have or how I look. I want to be strong and fast. I build my body for me and my sports, not anyone else. I don't -need- to be aesthetic. (Lord knows I'm not right now, seeing as I'm cutting. )

[sizemeup2]

Yep

i agree only to a certain extent, for newbs hypertrophy wont occur at first due to learning the motor control, but then muscle size will expand to handle heavier weights