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  1. #1
    Registered User pali012's Avatar
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    Ultimate 5x5 Thread

    I decided to make this thread because of the excess amount of 5x5 questions that have been flooding the forum latley. First off, read this http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...nts_thread.htm
    Read ALL of it. Don't skim it. Read it. It answers almost every question one could have about 5x5. If after that, and only after, you have a 5x5 question post it here so others can see the answers in one place instead of having a million 5x5 threads. I would also like this thread to be used for the posting of results for those who have used the program.

    Hope this will work...
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  2. #2
    What time is it in Malta? Madcow2's Avatar
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    Just so people are aware there is a 50+ page thread with 1000+ posts here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=375215. Most everything pertinent is already linked in the TOC at the geocities site you linked above here: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...nts_thread.htm. There's not really just one 5x5 program (even related to Bill Starr), obviously some variations have become more popular than others but don't think that Starr had one program and trained everyone pretty much the same way regardless of experience (the same holds true for anyone else who knows what they are doing). Ideally training is personalized and not run off a cookie cutter but obviously you need to know what you are doing to some degree and collectively BBing has proven itself rather poor at that and relied mainly on increasing drugs over the years.
    Training Theory, Info, and Starr/Pendlay 5x5 Info:
    http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1

    Direct Table of Contents:
    http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm
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  3. #3
    Registered User RipStone's Avatar
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    Thumbs up bump

    Good idea pali012!
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  4. #4
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    bump
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  5. #5
    Registered User TheReasonSF3's Avatar
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    i think im gonna start doing the intermediate program of that site. my 5 rep max on bench is 165. the template that site has says for me to do 153 (id round it to 155) on my last set of 5. so your not supposed to go to failure on any of the excercises?
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  6. #6
    Registered User RipStone's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheReasonSF3
    i think im gonna start doing the intermediate program of that site. my 5 rep max on bench is 165. the template that site has says for me to do 153 (id round it to 155) on my last set of 5. so your not supposed to go to failure on any of the excercises?
    nope, dont train to failure. that goes for all the accessory exercises as well(bis, tris, dips, etc).

    so the first 3 weeks of training you will be working with loads that you already know you can handle(this doing 153 for the max set on week 1). ramping the loads up in order to break your current PRs on week 4 is a crucial part of this program so dont mess with it.

    also, you should consider buying micro plates so you can make small increases week to week. for example, you arent gonna be able to increase your bench press 5lbs a week(two- 2.5lbs plates) in most cases. you can however increase your bench 1-3lbs a week. so in order to make these increases you need to use smaller plates(micro plates).
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  7. #7
    What time is it in Malta? Madcow2's Avatar
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    Microloading solutions: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...croloading.htm

    I especially dig the chain thing. Easy cheap solution for most.

    ---


    For failure, you will eventually be training to failure as you will stall and have to struggle to get your reps and try to keep adding incremental reps/weight. That's okay (and if it doesn't happen, that means you never stall and keep moving up so all the better). Failure happens but is not trained for.
    Training Theory, Info, and Starr/Pendlay 5x5 Info:
    http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1

    Direct Table of Contents:
    http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm
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  8. #8
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    For all of you who are to cheap to by the book " only the stongest shall survive" by Bill Starr, avalible from ironminds.com The following is the original begginers program:
    power clean bench press squat
    5 totals sets each run in a circut 3 times per week heavy light medium
    Monday
    set 1 35% of target
    set 2 70% of t
    set 3 80% of t
    set 4 90% of t
    set 5 TARGET
    Wedensday
    set 1 35%
    set 2 70%
    set 3 80%
    set 4 80%
    set 5 80%
    Friday
    set 1 35%
    set 2 70%
    set 3 80%
    set 4 90%
    set 5 90%
    OPTOINAL leg curl and leg extension 2 sets each 1x20 1x10

    I can post about a dozen different versions all the way up to the NFL level, Madcow PM me if that's what you want
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  9. #9
    What time is it in Malta? Madcow2's Avatar
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    Post whatever you want, none of it can possibly harm anyone more than a 3 day split with a lot of machine work and super-iso ass squeezes. Heck if you posted a bunch of variations it would probably give people some reference.
    Training Theory, Info, and Starr/Pendlay 5x5 Info:
    http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1

    Direct Table of Contents:
    http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm
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  10. #10
    Registered User Navigator's Avatar
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    Another article about using chains for microloading is here:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ridgely4.htm
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  11. #11
    Registered User b180's Avatar
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    im starting the linear version tomorrow, i cant f*ckin wait!!
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  12. #12
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    This is by no means complete, think of it as the first installment. I hope I didn't miss anything with the basic set up. Please note that I've only listed the weight bearing exercises. Yah I know you can do sit ups and dips with weight. I was trying to keep it simple and focused on what's important.

    I’ve been using the 5x5 system for about the last 25 years as the core of my weight training program. I’m going to attempt to list out from beginner all the way up to the N.F.L. level, all of the various programs that I’ve found to be productive. I’ve used these programs for myself, and various middle school, and hi school kids, training for football, hockey, field hockey, lacrosse, baseball, softball, basketball, cheerleading, well you get the idea.
    Some basic rules: after the warm up set[s] perform all reps explosively. Each week try to add 5 pounds to the bar until failure. When failure does occur reduce the weight 20% and start again.
    Beginner program:
    Power clean, Bench press, and Squat, in that order and in a circuit. 5 sets of 5 reps.

    Work out 1 ***************Work out 2*************Work out 3
    Set 1 35% of target *********Set 1 35% of target******Set 1 35% of target
    Set 2 70% of target *********Set 2 70% of target******Set 2 70% of target
    Set 3 80% of target *********Set 3 80% of target******Set 3 80% of target
    Set 4 90% of target********* Set 4 80% of target******Set 4 90% of target
    Set 5 Target weight ********* Set 5 80% of target******Set 5 90% of target

    Program 2
    You simply switch the middle work out exercises to Dead lift, shoulder press, and bent row

    Program 3
    Dual factor single phase
    Work out 1
    Power clean, bench press, squat
    Work out 1
    Power clean set 1 35% of target set 2 70% set 3 80% of target set 4 90% of target set 5 target
    Bench press set 1 35% of target set 2 70% set 3 80% of target set 4 90% of target set 5 target set 6 80%x 10 reps
    Squat set 1 35% of target set 2 70% set 3 80% of target set 4 90% of target set 5 target set 6 80% x 10 reps
    2 days off then work out 2
    Power clean set 1 25% of target set 2 50% of target sets 3 – 6 90% of target
    Bench press set 1 25% of target set 2 50% of target sets 3 – 6 90% of target set 7 80% x 10 reps
    Squat set 1 25% of target set 2 50% of target sets 3 – 6 90% of target set 7 80% x 10 reps
    Work out 3 OPTIONAL
    Calve Press
    Leg extension
    Leg curl
    Dumb bell bench press
    Two arm curl
    Tricep press
    Set up 1 1 x 20 1 x 10
    Set up 2 1 x 15 2 x 8
    Set up 3 1 x 12 3 x 6
    Dual factor duel phase
    Every other week trade the exercises
    Week 1
    Power clean
    Bench press
    Squat
    Week 2
    Dead lift
    Shoulder press
    Bent row
    Last edited by all pro; 01-09-2006 at 12:32 PM. Reason: too hard to read
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  13. #13
    Banned dbcb314's Avatar
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    yo man, a tip... put some spaces between the workouts... gives ya a headache to read it...
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  14. #14
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    I was wondering...wouldn't doing both Squats and Deadlifts on the same day prove a hinderance in Glute/Ham developement?
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  15. #15
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    Unhappy

    Originally Posted by dbcb314
    yo man, a tip... put some spaces between the workouts... gives ya a headache to read it...
    I don't know why it pasted it that way and I can't figure out how to fix it I'm trying
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  16. #16
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    all pro is offline
    Originally Posted by Andvaranaut
    I was wondering...wouldn't doing both Squats and Deadlifts on the same day prove a hinderance in Glute/Ham developement?
    You don't do them on the same day
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  17. #17
    Registered User puppetzz's Avatar
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    Ok, Ill post this here

    Should I do Grip work on off days. I saw Ripstone doing it, and figured I could use some more grip strength. I also play hockey so the increased forearm strength will help my shot.
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by all pro
    You don't do them on the same day
    In the intermed. 5 x 5 you do.

    Chris
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  19. #19
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by puppetzz
    Ok, Ill post this here

    Should I do Grip work on off days. I saw Ripstone doing it, and figured I could use some more grip strength. I also play hockey so the increased forearm strength will help my shot.
    I've used this program to train kids for softball, baseball and hockey and I've never used any special grip work. I think for most people, power clean and if you're useing the advanced program deadlift, should improve your grip. I would say run the program for like 6 weeks, then decide if you really need to add more to it.
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    Paging Madcow

    Originally Posted by cafrey
    In the intermed. 5 x 5 you do.

    Chris
    dead lift and squat in the same work out ?
    I sure hope it's a typo!
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  21. #21
    Registered User puppetzz's Avatar
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    Actually on light day you do Deadlift and squat in the same workout. Its just the squats are lightweight.
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  22. #22
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by puppetzz
    Actually on light day you do Deadlift and squat in the same workout. Its just the squats are lightweight.
    OK that makes sence
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  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by all pro
    OK that makes sence
    Even so, wouldn't that hinder glute ham developement....
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  24. #24
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    yeah middle day is a light squat day and a heavy deadlift day... its not that bad trust...
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    For the SF version, if you sub deadlifts for powercleans, then on wednesday you would actually squat and deadlift on the same day. But its fine in my expiernce with it. You are doing light squats that day and doing 4x5 deadlifts where you prymiad up to a max set.

    puppetz- i do grip work on a few non-ifting days. i make sure not to do grip work the day before/after deadlifting cus deadlifts will work your grip pretty well if you are using any sort of serious weight. the main reason i do grip work is cus my grip is pretty weak. plus, its helps increase my work capacity.
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  26. #26
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    Well i do Sunday, Tuesday, and thursday so maybe i can do some grip work friday.

    My deadlift is weak too

    this is what i did last tuesday
    95 115 135 155
    Im improving very fast on it now that i read how to do deadlfts
    Last edited by puppetzz; 01-08-2006 at 06:28 PM.
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    Originally Posted by puppetzz
    Well i do Sunday, Tuesday, and thursday so maybe i can do some grip work friday.

    My deadlift is weak too

    this is what i did last tuesday
    95 115 135 155
    Im improving very fast on it now that i read how to do deadlfts
    You could do some grip work on friday. The thing I am wondering is that if you need extra grip work? I need extra grip work because my grip is too weak too allow me to work with the loads I am able to do. In other words, my grip is the weak link in this lift. My other muscles involved in the deadlift are able to handle XYZ lbs, but my grip fails when I attempt to deadlift XYZlbs.
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    Minor question, are the Dips suppose to be leaning forward or straight up and down? I've been mixing it up but wasn't sure what the intent was for the choice of dips.

    Chris
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    What time is it in Malta? Madcow2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cafrey
    Minor question, are the Dips suppose to be leaning forward or straight up and down? I've been mixing it up but wasn't sure what the intent was for the choice of dips.

    Chris
    Do what you like, they aren't integral to the program and being used as a core lift. Pick one and go at it for the duration.
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