Was Arnold Gifted the 1980 Olympia ??

[Aussieguy101]

The one he won after a 5 year layoff and only entered at the last minute cos he was in decent shape training for Conan.

He was in good shape for someone who had not competed for 5 years but no way should he have won !

[rafaelmr]

that´s a really old discussion... You can find tons of articles talking about this event.

[zhorner]

i downloaded the video a few moths ago and i have mixed emotions.

arnolds arms were still number 1, no doubt about that. his possing was great as well...but i just remember seeing a few guys that looked overall...better.

due to his well known status, the crowd went nuts every time he struck a pose. i think it swayed the judges votes a little bit.

[nickx]

Mike Mentzer was the 1980 real Mr O.

[AngryDude]

and placed 4th!

[Meshuggah]

Placed 5th actually, and yes, he should have won.

[superdrool]

Arnold was gifted most of his achievements honestly anyway, in my opinion atleast, both in and out of bodybuilding.

[Deleted1147]

The man came to America with three goals: to be a bodybuilder, to be a movie star, and to be a politician. He worked his ass off and achieved everything he wanted. To say he was "gifted" these thnigs is sheer ignorance.

[gainmass]

arnold at 1980 didnt have any legs at all.......... his legs werent even well conditioned....even frank zane (who looked like a swimmer because of his tiny size) had better legs.......in his posing round he did six poses only........no back double bi no lat spread ......... it was funny...........if u really wanna talk about someone damn screwed talk about tom platz who looked as one of the top while he didnt get nothing...

[sikboy]

Mike Mentzer was the 1980 real Mr O.

Bump to that, the 80 Mr O was BS, Mentzer should have won, or at least placed in the top 3.

[johnnyironboard]

A lot of revision has gone on concerning that O. I was in Jr. High in 1980 and remember reading Strength and Health and the old Iron Man and nobody was talking about a fix or Mentzer got screwed or any of that. They all looked good and they all looked about the same imo.

[timberwolf]

A lot of revision has gone on concerning that O. I was in Jr. High in 1980 and remember reading Strength and Health and the old Iron Man and nobody was talking about a fix or Mentzer got screwed or any of that. They all looked good and they all looked about the same imo.

I remember reading Muscelmag issues that came out at the time, they thought Arnold didn't deserve it. What made it worse was Franco also recieving a gift the following year over Platz and Callendar.

[Vadim Beliaev]

I dont think Platz could ever win the Sandow... sure he had the best legs in the sport, but those legs just dwarfed his upper body, even in his prime.

[FarEastBeast]

I dont think Platz could ever win the Sandow... sure he had the best legs in the sport, but those legs just dwarfed his upper body, even in his prime.

Very true, Platz' lack of proportion was glaring. As for Mentzer, I believe he quit because of what he called the politics of the sport. I admire the guy's physique and training methods, but that's not a Mr. O. He had to have known Arnold's comeback was a one-shot deal. If he was really screwed because of a fix or just the sensation of the sport's biggest star coming back from Hollywood to regain his old crown, then come back strong the next year and blow the field away. But just because he quit in protest doesn't mean he should have won. That kind of thing is a fact in bodybuilding, and it must be dealt with, not run from.

[Fluff]

It must be hard to motivate yourself for another year if you know you might get screwed over again.

[Toma]

Would anyone agree that Mentzer's physique is more favorable in modern times than back in 1980?

[FarEastBeast]

It must be hard to motivate yourself for another year if you know you might get screwed over again.

Of course but that's life. I had a similar problem as a high school athlete, wherein I felt I was good enough to be on the team but the coach was biased against me. This is a common sob story I know, but after my junior year I quit. Why? Because I didn't want to face ultimate failure. In my mind I had no chance so I quit. But I regret it because A) I'll never know, and B) How can I say for sure I was good enough or if the coach was really biased against me and wouldn't have picked me? Another reason I quit was it was easier to get drunk and stoned and smoke cigarettes than it was to put my best effort into another (probably) doomed effort. Look at Jay Cutler. He could've quit after 2001 when many thought he got jobbed at the O. But he didn't and he hasn't because he's a champion. Mentzer wasn't, and neither (by a longshot) was I.

[johnnyironboard]

Would anyone agree that Mentzer's physique is more favorable in modern times than back in 1980?

To be honest I have a hard time being objective about all of that stuff. When the pics came out I didn't think anybody stood out. Then a couple of years later I was at a Mentzer seminar and his hatred for Arnold- almost to an obsession- probably made it impossible for me not to have some personal bias on the entire thing. Mentzer was a very complicated guy who knew a lot but had some serious problems as well. I hope he sorted it all out before he died.

[FarEastBeast]

To be honest I have a hard time being objective about all of that stuff. When the pics came out I didn't think anybody stood out. Then a couple of years later I was at a Mentzer seminar and his hatred for Arnold- almost to an obsession- probably made it impossible for me not to have some personal bias on the entire thing. Mentzer was a very complicated guy who knew a lot but had some serious problems as well. I hope he sorted it all out before he died.

Very interesting. Care to elaborate on the "serious problems." I'm no stranger to 'em myself.

[johnnyironboard]

Very interesting. Care to elaborate on the "serious problems." I'm no stranger to 'em myself.

Obsessive/Compulsive behavior (which I witnessed) and amphet addiction(which I read about). Looking back at his seminar and the hours after the seminar I spent with him he was obsessed that his training methods were right and everybody else was wrong and out get him because of it and his hatred of Arnold was obsessive to the point of being a distraction.

[FarEastBeast]

Obsessive/Compulsive behavior (which I witnessed) and amphet addiction(which I read about). Looking back at his seminar and the hours after the seminar I spent with him he was obsessed that his training methods were right and everybody else was wrong and out get him because of it and his hatred of Arnold was obsessive to the point of being a distraction.

Ah, very interesting. Thanks. So were you hanging out with him after the seminar or something? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.

[johnnyironboard]

Ah, very interesting. Thanks. So were you hanging out with him after the seminar or something? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.

It was at the University of Minnesota in the early 1980's- Larry Pacifico(the powerlifter) did a seminar as well. The seminars coincided with some football clinics - I went because Lou Holtz was the head coach at the time. I was in HS at the time (all conference and 3rd team all state).

[FarEastBeast]

It was at the University of Minnesota in the early 1980's- Larry Pacifico(the powerlifter) did a seminar as well. The seminars coincided with some football clinics - I went because Lou Holtz was the head coach at the time. I was in HS at the time (all conference and 3rd team all state).

OK, so why do you think Mentzer quit though if he knew Arnold would retire again after the show? That's the part I never understood. If Arnold were in the middle of his reign, sure, but the field was wide open the next year. BTW, did you go on to play college ball?

[sikboy]

OK, so why do you think Mentzer quit though if he knew Arnold would retire again after the show? That's the part I never understood. If Arnold were in the middle of his reign, sure, but the field was wide open the next year. BTW, did you go on to play college ball?

Because Mentzer knew, Arnold and Weider were out to send a message at the 1980 mr O, they wanted to teach Mentzer a lesson, because he dared question the very principles of the training routine that were making both Weider and Arnold millions.

Mentzer knew he would have never won, if the powers that be didn't want him too, even after Arnold stopped competing.

[johnnyironboard]

OK, so why do you think Mentzer quit though if he knew Arnold would retire again after the show? That's the part I never understood. If Arnold were in the middle of his reign, sure, but the field was wide open the next year. BTW, did you go on to play college ball?

At 5'9" I wasnt tall enough to continue(I went to OU and they won a national champsionship in 1985 you had to be great to even consider playing there then).

I think Mentzer quit for 1 of 2 reasons:

1. His obsessive personality or
2. What sikboy said.

I'm leaning towards 1. when you consider how many other guys (Gaspari,Labrada,Ray) kept going when they didn't really have a chance at winning the big one.

One of the smartest things I ever heard was from the Mentzer seminar:

" You can train hard or you can train long but you can't do both".

[FarEastBeast]

At 5'9" I wasnt tall enough to continue(I went to OU and they won a national champsionship in 1985 you had to be great to even consider playing there then).

I think Mentzer quit for 1 of 2 reasons:

1. His obsessive personality or
2. What sikboy said.

I'm leaning towards 1. when you consider how many other guys (Gaspari,Labrada,Ray) kept going when they didn't really have a chance at winning the big one.

One of the smartest things I ever heard was from the Mentzer seminar:

" You can train hard or you can train long but you can't do both".

Probably a combination of both, but again he didn't know for sure there was a plot against him or whatever, or that there would be one the next year. Probably the OCD fueling paranoia. One more shot and then if he lost to an obviously weaker opponent (it simply cannot be said he blew everyone off the stage and lost in 1980) he would have had a case. As it stands there is not case here except that he quit. Good quote BTW.

[sikboy]

" You can train hard or you can train long but you can't do both".

That is a great quote from Mike.

[Guardian]

Nobody at that olympia comapred to arnold for aesthetic appeal and posing. Back then that was the name of the game, not massive legs. Arnolds genetically gifted chest and bis were enough to blow anyone out of the water back then. Arnold had a very unique looking chest that even pros today can rarely achieve. Arnold should have won, he should have not retired back in 75 and kept going.

[Clark Lambert]

My very first post on MuscleMag's forum a couple of years ago... I asked this question... heres my post from there, with a few additions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What would have happened if Arnold lost in 1980 and Mike Mentzer had won the Olympia instead?

Now keep in mind Mike finished a contreversial 'tie for 4th' but the general consensus seems to be he was screwed... BIG TIME! Most seem to think he won. The majority of what I have read by most pro's (except Arnold and Franco, LOL) seem to agree with this.
The whole 1980 Olympia is fascinating to me... bodybuilding took an enormous change of direction that year... the outcome being the most controversial and talked about in the history of the Olympia.
SO...
IF Mike Mentzer won... who would eventually beaten him. Mike was so disillusioned with the outcome he never competed again... and several other pro's, namely Boyer Coe and Casey Viator (who both trained under mike) did not compete the following year.
Would Mike have continued to compete and win?
I tend to think he would have... and easily beaten Franco Columbo in '81 (who was also given a gift), and quite possibly Chris Dickerson in '82... how about Samir Bannout in '83?
It's an interesting discussion for anyone who believes Mike was screwed in 1980. His High Intensity Methods would have become much more mainstream I think... greatly affecting the future of bodybuilding... and possibly creating a bodybuilder who challanged Lee Haney.
Well ... maybe not.. LOL.... but no-one else really challenged Lee during the 80's.... it would have been awesome to see Mike and Lee head to head in '83 and 84.
Imagine if you will a Mike Mentzer defending a fourth title against Lee Haney.
Use some imagination and picture a Mentzer even bigger and more full than he has ever appeared against Lee...
He truly was the first real "Mass Bodybuilder". All due respect to Sergio, but Mike was just built like a brick-****house.

BY the way... the 1980 Mr. Olympia is available on video, apperently the Australian News recorded the entire contest. I purchased it recently... and... no doubt about it...

Arnold LOST!!!
I'm not saying Mike beat him... but I do think Chris Dickerson, Frank Zane and Mike Mentzer looked better than Arnold.

WHat is really interesting to me is how much of an impact this Olympia had on the future of bodybuilding.
Weider and Arnold's principles were being threatened by Mentzer. I do beleive they purposefully relegated Mike to a 4th place tie with the other major proponent of Mentzer's training, Boyer Coe.
Coincidence... I don't think so.
Mike's victory would have given creedence to all of his methods and seriously destabalized the Weider Empire.
If Mentzer won... Wieder and Arnold could have had their entire worlds shattered before them.
To the extent that Arnold's movie career may neve have evolved to the extent it had. Of course with Arnie being such a smart guy... he would have had such an enormous blow to his ego that he more than likely would have trained for the next year and completely annihilated Mentzer and everyone else the next year.
LOL... I love these "What if's"

Arnold deserves everything he strove for... I love the guy and I consider him the greatest bodybuilder in the sport. I am sure he had a hand in these events, but it's really Joe Weider whom I feel has robbed all of us fans of a piece of Olympian History that could have... and SHOULD have been.
I cringe when I see these Wieder brothers on stage. I personally feel they have done more to promote and damage this amazing sport than anyone else in it's history.
Double edged sword.
*SIGH*

R.I.P Mike Mentzer... and your brother Ray.

[Guardian]

The arnold principles died out along time ago.

Arnold was known for very high volume training and even favored isolation.... somewhat. In todays world it is preached that more is better and everyone seems to scream overtraining if someone does more then 3 sets for bis, o wait some people are crazy enough to believe rows will give you great biceps.....

IMo we should go back to the arnold style training, it sure as hell worked for me.