Protein Factory Fails Label Claim test

**Bobo** · 10-15-2002, 01:03 PM

I also received an order last week for Penta Pro. I've ordered there numerous times (over a year's worth of protein) and this batch tasted nothing like the old ones. Not even close. Also I received a little freebie in the box too which I didn't order. Either they were being extremely nice or their shipping methods and ordering might not be up to par. So considering that, the batch Tony sent might not be what he ordered.

**Tony1** · 10-15-2002, 01:05 PM

It says on their site that glutamine peptides are bitter due to the hydrolization. It does say they are using a new source. I would call and ask them about this. Ask to speak to Alex. He could explain to you what the color it should be and describe the taste.My last shipment had two errors including sending me the wrong protein. It's possible someone screwed up the order in the back. I sent an email about whats going on and have not received any response yet. Maybe they are overloaded. I hope my email is important enough to respond to considering I have used them as my sole source of protein supplements for over a year. Again call and ask to speak to Alex. I hope he doesn't just blow this off. You might want to ask him if he thinks this test was due to someone screwing up in the back.

**Tony1** · 10-15-2002, 01:07 PM

Let me also add that I have been very nice about any errors with my order and just asked for them to be corrected.

**brooklyn mike** · 10-15-2002, 01:12 PM

i called and spoke to some guy i dunno who it was i didnt think to ask casue it was beforei read this post.. any way he said they changed suppliers but when i ordered my first batch they said ont he site they had a new supplier so it should be the same inless they changed supliiers a third time or inless last time they sent me one of the last batches they had left over. any way there no way im gonna figure it out it looks like adifferent color and is much softer and more moist and taste like flower and not like vomit like my old peptides. i dunno im jsut gonna use em and hope they work...

**brooklyn mike** · 10-15-2002, 01:21 PM

sorry one more thing... i not very expericenced when it comes to protein so can any one help me out and recomend a new brand of protein i can order, taste means nuthing to me i want somthing cheap and thats quality, i need sumthing for post workout and sumthing to help me fill my requirment for when i dont have time to eat.. i dont wanna buy from pf any more intill we figure out if there the real deal or not.. some one answer please i need to order soon ..thanks..

**DRock** · 10-15-2002, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by DRock
Optimum Whey protein is good and cheap.

BTW, you should be getting more than 60g of protein from food.

Do a search on food and protein, post a new thread, or PM me to see where you can add more protein to your diet.

Peace.

brooklyn mike, I guess you missed this post. but here it is again.

Peace

**Tony1** · 10-15-2002, 01:37 PM

Well lets see what happens with DIO's mix. And I hope we can get a couple more samples tested. Brooklyn Mike, if the peptides don't taste anything like what you ordered before call and tell Alex and have the right stuff sent out. They didn't send me hydro 520 and I asked for it to be corrected. THe order sent out tasted a lot different, more like what hydro 520 is described as. I really think things are getting screwed up in the mixing area. I dont think glutamine peptides should taste like flour. Don't settle until you have spoken with Alex and he can verify the flavor and color. It sounds like they sent out the wrong stuff and I should be fixed. I hope this all works out because I really love their concept and prices. I really want to keep using them but we will see.

**RHINO** · 10-15-2002, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by 1fast400
My web guy has just been sent the lab results and I'm attempting to scan the profile that Tony1 sent me. My scanner isn't working worth a crap. According the spec sheet it was a blend of:

30% casein
50% CFM why isolate
10% egg
5% Hydro 520
5% Fructose

Thanks. I think the flavor is also relevant. For example, they say on their website that they use something like 35 grams of cocoa powder per pound of protein if you order chocolate. So in other words, for every pound (454 g.) of poweder, you only get 419 g. of protein powder, the rest is flavoring. If it was vanilla, there's very little flavoring in it; something like 3 g. I think.

Anyway, even assuming that this was chocolate, if you do the math based on the **************'s website, it should have had 79 g. of protein per 100 g. of powder. This is based on the following.

Casein powder is 92% protein
CFM Whey Isolate powder is 92 - 95% protein
Egg White powder is 82%
Hydro 520 powder is74%

So in other words, it sounds like 1fast400 is right on in terms of what it should have been and as a two year customer of protein factory with probably almost $1,000 in orders so far, I'd like to hear a better explanation from sawboy before I place another order...

**AliveGuy** · 10-15-2002, 01:50 PM

In regaurds to the previous post, just letting you guys know that the actual order sheet is also posted now if you find the flavor and mix issues to be relative to these lab results.

**Monte Cristo** · 10-15-2002, 03:29 PM

Could the various ingredients in this, or any, PF product mixure settle in the container and affect the results of the test?

Is it possibly better to order the ingredients seperately and mix them
yourself.

I have noticed different textures in various protein powders that I have used. It may be that these textures,
moisture content, mixing procedures,
shipping settling or other factors could
affect the lab results. I suspect this may be the case in affecting the Lab results in the PF sample.

I think the best way to be sure of the
quality would be to test the components
of the mixture individually. That way one could see if the basic ingredients
are what PF says they are. That does
not address the possibility that a mistake was made by PF in this particular mixture or if the basic idea
of custom mixes is workable for an
indefinite number of possible combinations. PF could not test any
particular mixture to the degree that
some product for a mass market like
MetRX or others that would certainly
be subject to independent testing and
criticism would be tested.

**roobear** · 10-15-2002, 03:38 PM

Can you really trust a laboratory that can't add properly? Makes you wonder if they can tell if the strip is pink or not, maybe the lab techs actually came to the conclusion that protein factory was...*gasp* pregnant! Mike's holding back on us on those results though.

**AliveGuy** · 10-15-2002, 03:40 PM

Of course separation is possible. In my opinion, youd be hard pressed to find such a scenerio in real life where separation accounted for the test results obtained by 1Fast400. We can all sit around and make excuses, to convince ourselves that PF really does do a good job with their protein--the same way we can convince ourselves Yohimburn out preforms Lipoderm and Cutting Gel topples them both, or that anal administration of 4AD beats any steroid out there. OR we can just face the facts as they are presented by a nuetral party with no personal vendetta against any company.

Testing the ingrediants would do no good. I believe that these guys probably do have all the correct types of proteins...thats just a *belief* though (let's at least give em that...Im sure they aren't cutting it with sacks of flour). I really think the real problem lies in the actual mixing of the product. Only some beligerant, blind, dislexic guy pouring in a scoop of that, and a pinch of this can fully explain what we have seen today.

**Monte Cristo** · 10-15-2002, 03:55 PM

"..In my opinion, youd be hard pressed to find such a scenerio in real life where separation accounted for the test results obtained by 1Fast400.....

....Only some beligerant, blind, dislexic guy pouring in a scoop of that, and a pinch of this can fully explain what we have seen today."

That is certainly possible. The amount of
carbs in the Lab results sugests that a carb may have been added instead of a
protein.

But, is the basic idea of a custom mix
sound, without a lot of testing? Possible mistakes, basic qualities of the ingredients themselves
enter into the final quality. It is not like
they take the components and put them
individually in a blender and drink them
at the time.

**1fast400** · 10-15-2002, 04:11 PM

As I have learned today, it is VERY hard to find quality help.

**Tony1** · 10-15-2002, 04:58 PM

I want to add this though. I didn't pay for those carbs I paid for the protein. I can live with a mistake. When I was in college I worked at a distributor for bingo products. There was so many of this and so many of that it wasn't a shock that an order went out in err here and there. Having said that my last order I was over charged on a 3lb order of protein. Who ever mixed it up totaled it as adding 2.58 lbs. of bcaa's to a 3lb order. All i did was call and they credited my bank card. THen it turns out that the protein they put in the mix was not what I ordered. So they said they would get it out that day. Well it arrived yesterday. I tasted it and it was what I ordered, good ole' hydro 520 for post workout. I was even going to call and thank them for correcting my order promptly. Then i proceeded to fill the old container I used when they sent out the wrong order (the typical one that usually holds 2.2 lbs of protein) I can get 3 lbs of their protein filled nearly to the top. I know i have three lbs. Well I proceeded to fill the container with my corrected order of 3lbs. Well it didn't fill up where the previous 3 lbs went. I now decided to measure it out because I was wondering what was going on. I ordered 3 lbs. which on the protein calculator totals 38 half cup servings. Well I measured it out AND ONLY GOT 22! HALF CUP SERVINGS. That means they only sent me 2 lbs. Because two lbs. totals out to 25 servings at half a cup. I PAID FOR 3 LBS. That is the third mistake on the same order now. Im not going to haggle on the 3 serving difference but Something is seriously wrong. I am going to call tomorrow and let them know. When i first called the girl said they couldn't have messed up my order because of what the mixer wrote down. THey later found out that he used the wrong protein. I hope they don't question me like I made a mistake when I call tomorrow. I think they need to let go of whom ever is mixing this stuff because they are going to lose a lot of customers. I really like this place and may just use their hydro and carbs for post workout now because its pretty easy to know when you buy them separetly if you got what you ordered. Three errors on the same mix is not acceptable though.

**Tony1** · 10-15-2002, 05:02 PM

1FAST please let us know when Dio's mix is done being tested. And please let us know if you do some more testing of their proteins. That being said I just want to say I appreciate as well as many others for the testing you are doing.

**Tony1** · 10-15-2002, 05:16 PM

RHINO, please post any explanation you get if you do talk to Alex.

**brooklyn mike** · 10-15-2002, 05:35 PM

well he told me it was real glutamine peptides i dont really care casue it was only ten dollars worth but now i just wont order there any more. i just mixed it and its staying at the bottom of the water like sludge so theres no way its glutamine peptides but i already mixed it with the little glutamine i had left so i guess whatver it is im gonn have to take ...

**brooklyn mike** · 10-15-2002, 06:05 PM

yeah 1 fast thanks for the testing i would have still been getting ripped off...i do hope it turns out to be a mistake because its such a great idea to be able to buy protein so cheap...

**Monte Cristo** · 10-15-2002, 07:20 PM

"..This will be my last post because bodybuilding.com or who ever own this site will delete my posts and kick me off the site. "

It might be a good idea to change your
attitude in your response to issues raised
in this thread. These questions will not
go away. You are not a Mass Marketer
of Protein products. The people buying
from you are hardcore enough to study
various protein products and exchange
information on these boards.

You are kidding yourself if you think the
questions will go away as the thread gets older.

**Baby Huey** · 10-15-2002, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Monte Cristo

It might be a good idea to change your
attitude in your response to issues raised
in this thread. These questions will not
go away. You are not a Mass Marketer
of Protein products. The people buying
from you are hardcore enough to study
various protein products and exchange
information on these boards.

You are kidding yourself if you think the
questions will go away as the thread gets older.

I agree wholeheartedly. His response was really juvenile, and didn't answer the true question as to why there were so many carbs in the mix. Just a blind accusation of some sort of conspiracy against PF. He couldn't even get his facts straight, and somehow included Avant Labs in the conspiracy. This whole thing is really disappointing, from the test results to Alex's response. Rather than admit that maybe there are some quality control problems, he just lashes out without having any real knowledge of who 1fast400 is, the testing he has done on many products, etc. Sounds more like a politician than a businessman. "Everyone's against me"; "It's all lies"; "I won't respond because the biased media/board owner won't let me tell the truth." Hint: if you can't do a better job of proving that you provide what you claim to, you are going to get your ass handed to you on a platter.

Alex is very lucky that he has a lot of loyal (but disappointed) customers on this website. If this had been just about any other company, the board would be going ape**** right now. The response so far (my own included) seems to be more one of shock, disappointment and denial than anything. People are coming up with explanations as to why the test may have been screwed up, maybe it was the fault of the schmuck mixing it, etc. Some people now just want to order products separately rather than depend on PF to mix it up. Others are just willing to give them more chances and hope they don't screw up in the future, even though they screw up the same order multiple times.

Personally, I've just heard too much from too many others about mixes being inconsistent, orders being screwed up, etc. for me to order from PF again as things stand today. I've ordered from them in the past, and never seemed to have any problems, but now I wonder if they were screwing mine up too. I think it speaks volumes for the state of the supplement industry that so many people are still willing to order from PF despite these test results. Who can you trust in this industry?

If the problem is addressed by PF in an honest and straightforward manner, then a lot of future business can be salvaged. Hopefully, this is an isolated incident, and PF will take the steps to restore full confidence in its product. However, if they ignore their obvious problems with nothing but blanket denials from their owner, they will go down (deservedly) in flames. As Monte Cristo points out, their customers are not the morons that rely on Musclemag International for accurate information. We are the morons that take the time to obtain objective information about the products we buy on message boards like this one.

**jweave23** · 10-15-2002, 07:58 PM

I think Baby Huey just hit the nail on the head quit hard with that post. Bravo!

**Monte Cristo** · 10-15-2002, 08:17 PM

Baby Huey, it would be a shame if PF makes no effort to address these issues.

They have a great concept, but if they are perceived as incompetent, dishonest, or simply uncooperative, they
are finished.

It would have been far better to simply
say, "Well, it looks like we screwed up that order", than to respond as they did.

**Dante B.** · 10-15-2002, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by Baby Huey
I agree wholeheartedly.............

Heaven upon me, this was by far one of the best posts that I've ever read (from a conceptual/analytical industry standpoint. It helps when you're articulate, too!).

I do hope that Alex takes note of the several elusive concepts that you explicated. Most businesses/businessmen don't understand such things, sadly. Really good stuff in there for one to learn from, if they choose to see.

**Gene** · 10-15-2002, 10:24 PM

Agreed, Baby Huey. Alex needs to step back down to reality and read this thread with open, critical, and neutral glasses. It is perhaps conceivable that the multitude of discussed "possibilities" (problems with mixing, etc) are the nature of this issue here, but it should be obvious that most of us "objective" fellows here are reluctant to turn a blind eye to the highly suspect frequent nature of these incidents, such as order mixups and erroneous macronutrient ratios, some of which I have personally experienced on more than one occasion.

Conversely, it is not unlikely that we are the victims of insidious deception. Don't get me wrong, I believe the mood in here is cautiously optimistic. The last thing a serious group of individuals such as those that frequent this forum would want is confirmation that a protein source that they consider reliable is in actuallity far from being so. I find the overwhelming response in this thread to be increasingly disturbing. Make no mistake, this is not the first time this issue has been brought up, and as such, it would be folly of you, Alex, to ignore it, as it is also not the last. We don't expect impeccable service and quality, even though it would be a welcome ideal. Understand, please, that we want honesty.

Let me just conclude with some random speculation. We don't buy protein buy the pound. We buy it by the 5, 10, and 15 pounds. This amount usually lasts us several weeks. Any business experts care to hypothesize the pecuniary impact that would be incurred by Protein Factory if we were all (those passionately involved in this discussion) to skip 1-2 orders? I suspect that a month of significantly reduced sales would be the only gesture to which these people would heed.

-Gene

**Original Poster** · 10-16-2002, 04:52 AM

Just a thought.......

1fast400,

When you sent in the sample for testing, where did you get the sample from ? Did someone send it to you, or did you open a fresh protein factory container and send it in yourself ? If someone sent it to you.......couldn't they (if they had a beef with PF) mix in some extra sugars which is what the testing showed was much higher than stated ?

How controlled was the aquiring of samples ?

Just a thought.

PS......I have never used PF protein and have no feelings either way on them or their products. Mike please keep up the good work.

PEACE

**Baby Huey** · 10-16-2002, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by dantebattista
Heaven upon me, this was by far one of the best posts that I've ever read (from a conceptual/analytical industry standpoint. It helps when you're articulate, too!).

I do hope that Alex takes note of the several elusive concepts that you explicated. Most businesses/businessmen don't understand such things, sadly. Really good stuff in there for one to learn from, if they choose to see.

Gosh, such praise coming from the most intellectual poster on this board is making me blush, Dante! Thanks for the kind words.

**Tony1** · 10-16-2002, 07:00 AM

CHi Town, 1fast received the order from me. I have used the protein factory exclusively now for over a year. I have no beef with them what so ever. My first response was "say it isn't so". I receive my protein and fill it into empty protein containers. THeir protein doesn't come in containers. It comes in clear bags that are zip tied. I was even reluctant to send in the sample at first because I thought there wasn't going to be a problem anyway, so why waste the protein. I really don't want to go back to buying protein the way I used to.

On another note I agree with Baby Huey and the rest about how this was handled. I can understand the anger at first. I would have been more comfortable if he had came to our board and said this is shock to me, clearly this has to be a mixing problem and i'll be the first to admit that due to the nature of our custom mixing we are bound to have a mix up here and there, etc.

**Tony1** · 10-16-2002, 07:19 AM

I recieved an email from Alex. I dont think he will be checking any messages on the board because he finished his comments with "typical supplement company trying to bad mouth me".

**Baby Huey** · 10-16-2002, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by Tony1
I recieved an email from Alex. I dont think he will be checking any messages on the board because he finished his comments with "typical supplement company trying to bad mouth me".

Bad idea on his part. If that's his attitude, screw him and PF.

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