Protein Factory Fails Label Claim test

[u5711]

All, I can say is wow..... and damn that took a long time! I have to say a few things. The first is that I am amazed at how much was drawn out from that first test and at that point I completely understood where Alex was coming from. However, after what he said and how he reacted I am even more shocked. I, personally, couldn't justify ever ordering from a company like that. I thank 1 fast 400 for his testing and sharing of knowledge, but I'd just like to ask that for future tests he be more thorough and have more samples to dispell all this confusion and disarray that could've been prevented.

[RippedUp]

u5711,

Once again, congrats for using the search function.


Thanks.

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by u5711
All, I can say is wow..... and damn that took a long time! I have to say a few things. The first is that I am amazed at how much was drawn out from that first test and at that point I completely understood where Alex was coming from. However, after what he said and how he reacted I am even more shocked. I, personally, couldn't justify ever ordering from a company like that. I thank 1 fast 400 for his testing and sharing of knowledge, but I'd just like to ask that for future tests he be more thorough and have more samples to dispell all this confusion and disarray that could've been prevented.

it's called quality control.

[u5711]

Originally posted by str8flexed
it's called quality control.

i know what quality control is but im not relly sure why youre saying that to me. but anyways, if you take just one sample that cannot be considered valid and you cannot generalize that to the whole. if, however you took a few random samples then yes, that could be valid. its like going to a gym and seeing the first person in there is skinny and weak so you say "this gym is for skinny weaklings". we all know thats not accurate.

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by u5711
i know what quality control is but im not relly sure why youre saying that to me. but anyways, if you take just one sample that cannot be considered valid and you cannot generalize that to the whole. if, however you took a few random samples then yes, that could be valid. its like going to a gym and seeing the first person in there is skinny and weak so you say "this gym is for skinny weaklings". we all know thats not accurate.

I understand that. Mistakes can be made... that is not the reason that I will never buy from protein factory... I will never buy from them b/c of the way their CEO handled the situation. Instead of admitting they screwed up and apologizing (which would have made it all better at least in my mind) he attacked everyone, and even called us a bunch of stupid college kids.

Not a good response for someone who wants my bussiness.
Peace

[u5711]

Originally posted by str8flexed
I understand that. Mistakes can be made... that is not the reason that I will never buy from protein factory... I will never buy from them b/c of the way their CEO handled the situation. Instead of admitting they screwed up and apologizing (which would have made it all better at least in my mind) he attacked everyone, and even called us a bunch of stupid college kids.

Not a good response for someone who wants my bussiness.
Peace

I understand, completely, where you're coming from on that. When I got to that post I was in awe that he would say that. But even then, it was a compounding effect of how he reacted on all his replies.

[NYCGambit]

I took a look at the test results and of the 11 batches or so they tested this was the worst. The others were not too bad for the most part but pretty close.

Adam

[SHpanda]

mike is #1

[dwm230000]

That's already been shown that test was conducted by a company with affiliations to a COMPETIVE company.

Really? How was it already shown? When PF unsuccessfully sued?

After reviewing the papers and hearing oral argument the Court denied all of Protein Factory’s requests on the spot

^^^^I don't think I am allowed to post a link to where that info is, but using an internet search engine to search "Protein Factory lawsuit" will reveal the whole story to anyone interested.

[MCWTRAINER]

Really? How was it already shown? When PF unsuccessfully sued?



^^^^I don't think I am allowed to post a link to where that info is, but using an internet search engine to search "Protein Factory lawsuit" will reveal the whole story to anyone interested.

VERY interesting!!!!

[Twin Peak]

Isn't Mind and Muscle allowed to be linked here?

Goddamn, that was well written.

[dwm230000]

Isn't Mind and Muscle allowed to be linked here?

I am not sure.

[BluSilver]

This is why I only buy from people I trust (via the boards). I've been primarily buying from Scivation lately. And DS (fatloss stuff for my mom). These guys are truthful and always easy to confront. They'd be honest and probably reimburse me or something if they screwed up.

[HORMONEMAN]

Isn't Mind and Muscle allowed to be linked here?

Goddamn, that was well written.

This thread reveals a few things.

1: The testing was flawed.

2: Further testing proved PF met label claims.

3: The judge wasn't savy about supplements.

4: Alex lost his cool no doubt but I don't blame him. Anyone with any pride would do the same. But too many people have no jobs or careers so they don't know what that's like.

5: Mike 1 fast isn't even a bodybuilder by his own admission and had ties to a competive supplement company. yep, that's real unbiased.

6: Twin Peak is also a competitor and is getting killed by PF selling at a much better price and wants to cut them down. The behaviour is a little disappointing.

7: Most of the members who are shocked have ties to other supplement companies.

8:Protein Factory has doubled in size sice this occured with thousands of satified customers.

9: Too many people here think they're the spokeman for justice when they're really just kids who want to be accepted by the reigning gang.

10: dmw still has way too much time on his hands.

[Itadienekes]

Just a quick, unrelated question ... What'sup with Protein Customizer now? The website seems to be down. I wanted to check out their products and prices. Did they shut down lately?

[dwm230000]

Just a quick, unrelated question ... What'sup with Protein Customizer now? The website seems to be down. I wanted to check out their products and prices. Did they shut down lately?

Actually, it's not that unrelated. Protein Factory also sued the owner of that site at the same time as the person who ran these tests. They of course lost that case also

[Twin Peak]

6: Twin Peak is also a competitor and is getting killed by PF selling at a much better price and wants to cut them down. The behaviour is a little disappointing.

LOL.

Yeah, PF sales is killing us.

[HORMONEMAN]

LOL.

Yeah, PF sales is killing us.

LOL.

[Twin Peak]

Of course, the other possibility is that I wrote that article 2+ years before I was involved with Designer Supplements.

[Itadienekes]

Actually, it's not that unrelated. Protein Factory also sued the owner of that site at the same time as the person who ran these tests. They of course lost that case also

"They" being PF? ... Still don't understand where PC ended up? Am I missing something?

[The Godfatha]

"They" being PF? ... Still don't understand where PC ended up? Am I missing something?

Even if you lose a case it can still cost a bombshell to successfully defend so that's my guess why they went down

[dito]

poor poor nelson.

[HORMONEMAN]

Even if you lose a case it can still cost a bombshell to successfully defend so that's my guess why they went down

It's true. Everybody loses when things go to court. I wasn't involved with that case but I have been sued and lord knows I've been falsely accused of things and it really sucks. Sometimes you simply have to go through the motions and state your case.

[exfatman]

This thread reveals a few things.

Alex lost his cool no doubt

Very interesting. Speaking of oneself in the third person is usually a sign of psychosis.

[exfatman]

Just a quick, unrelated question ... What'sup with Protein Customizer now? The website seems to be down. I wanted to check out their products and prices. Did they shut down lately?

Joint action from the FDA and Health Department probably

[dwm230000]

Isn't Mind and Muscle allowed to be linked here?

Goddamn, that was well written.

Well, since I'm not sure if it can be linked, I'll just copy and paste it. The filter will cover up whatever words can't be posted.

Protein Factory vs *************


Industry News: Lawsuit seeking to stop industry vigilante abandoned after early court decision--Protein Factory sues ******** and Protein Customizer and dismisses its claims after Court denies Injunction.




BACKGROUND


On January 16, 2003, the Protein Factory filed a lawsuit in New Jersey federal court against ************* and its owner, Michael McCandless, and ProteinCustomizer.com and its owner David Rosland.




The lawsuit sought to temporarily and permanently enjoin ********’s practice of testing label claims of various dietary supplements calling it “unsubstantiated, unreliable and unscientific test results and false, deceptive, misleading and unsubstantiated comparative advertising” and sought monetary relief from ********, Protein Customizer, and their individual owners because “Protein Factory has suffered and will continue to suffer damage to its business, reputation and good will and the loss of sales and profits”.




THE FACTS


For those of you living under a rock, and too lazy to read Protein Factory’s complaint, in September of 2002, ********, a preeminent internet retailer that is also notorious for testing various products from a variety of manufacturers, paid for testing of a Protein Factory product at an independent lab. That product was sent to ******** directly from a Protein Factory customer, and ******** forwarded it along to the lab.

The test came out worse than Protein Factory would have liked, but the pages have since been removed after negotiations between the two companies. Discussions were had on the boards, and Protein Factory alleges that its business suffered.

Similarly, in December of 2002, ******** then tested 11 products of Protein Factory, again from a single Protein Factory customer. Once again, the product was sent to ******** who passed them along to an independent lab. Of the 11, nine came out fine and two were off.




Again discussions were had on the boards, and again Protein Factory alleged loss of business.

The heart of Protein Factory’s case is the allegations against ******** (and originally Protein Customizer as well) of false comparative advertising. Protein Factory claimed that the testing process was so poor, that its products were either intentionally tampered with or were handled so recklessly, as to be invalid. Protein Factory further alleged that the intent was to take business away. Essentially, Protein Factory argued that there was no proof that the products were not tampered with. Protein Factory even hired an expert witness who advised the Court of the alleged inappropriate testing behavior.

Needless to say, the two customers of Protein Factory involved stepped up to the plate and swore under oath that they forwarded untampered Protein Factory product.



THE ALLEGATIONS


Protein Factory based its lawsuit on two principle allegations. First, it claimed that ********’s practice of testing label claim’s was unlawful because it was “reckless, irresponsible, completely unscientific and devoid of any quality control and are inherently false, misleading and deceptive.” Second, Protein Factory alleged that the unlawful testing was the result of an illegal conspiracy between ******** and Protein Customizer, a bulk protein wholesaler that sells directly to the customer custom blended proteins, to steal business from Protein Factory.

The lawsuit showed its first sign of weakness when Protein Factory, apparently realizing that no relationship existed between the defendants, voluntarily agreed to dismiss Protein Customizer from the lawsuit, and concede the conspiracy charges, shortly after after serving the complaint and indeed before Protein Customizer filed its responsive pleadings.

The case proceeded as Protein Factory insisted on pursuing the lawsuit against ******** and Mike McCandless personally.



THE HEARING AND DISMISSAL


Because Protein Factory sought a preliminary injunction, that was the first order of business. At the direction of the Court, the parties filed their motion papers and the Court held a hearing on the issue of whether (1) ******** should be enjoined from performing further label tests, (2) ******** must remove all posts and links to the alleged unlawful test results, and (3) the Court should require ******** to post a retraction statement.





After reviewing the papers and hearing oral argument the Court denied all of Protein Factory’s requests on the spot.




Apparently seeing the writing on the wall, Protein Factory shortly thereafter agreed to voluntarily dismiss the action, resulting in a resounding victory by ******** and Mr. McCandless.

As a result, our readers, and supplement consumers at large can rest assured that ******** will still be doing his best to clean up products whose contents to not match their label contents, and assuring our readers, and his customers that they in fact are getting what they pay for.

One thing has come out of this: ******** has tightened up his testing practices. Now, all products are shipped directly from the manufacturer, or its retailer, to the testing lab in a brand new container. This change is not a result of poor previous practices, but provides greater assurance that a company whose product does not match its label is less likely to concoct a lawsuit, according to Mr. McCandless. When asked to elaborate, he responded: “Getting sued sucks.”

[HORMONEMAN]

THANK YOU dmw for posting that!

Well, there it is. This all came down to the fact that Mike association with PF's competitor could not be proven... BUT THOSE WHO'VE BEEN AROUND HERE FOR A WHILE, know that's just not the case!!!

Miraculously, Mike joined forces with Protein Customizer after the testing. What a coinkydink!

It would have cost PF tens of thousands in additional court fees to prove that and it just wasn't worth it.

Meanwhile, PF has florished. Where is Customizer anyway? Actually, they weren't bad. They didn't have the selection that PF has, but the product was decent. It wasn't their fault that this bogus testing went down the way it did -- at least I hope that's the case. Bottom line: All's well that ends well.

[str8flexed]

This thread reveals a few things.

1: The testing was flawed.

2: Further testing proved PF met label claims.

3: The judge wasn't savy about supplements.

4: Alex lost his cool no doubt but I don't blame him. Anyone with any pride would do the same. But too many people have no jobs or careers so they don't know what that's like.

5: Mike 1 fast isn't even a bodybuilder by his own admission and had ties to a competive supplement company. yep, that's real unbiased.

6: Twin Peak is also a competitor and is getting killed by PF selling at a much better price and wants to cut them down. The behaviour is a little disappointing.

7: Most of the members who are shocked have ties to other supplement companies.

8:Protein Factory has doubled in size sice this occured with thousands of satified customers.

9: Too many people here think they're the spokeman for justice when they're really just kids who want to be accepted by the reigning gang.

10: dmw still has way too much time on his hands.

I remember the whole thing from the beginning. I didn't have ties to any supp company and I thought your company handled it terribly. Rather than apologizing or acting civilized... alex lashed out at the members here. Other companies have made mistakes; admitted them and moved on and they were forgiven. But I guess alex is above such nonesense

[str8flexed]

THANK YOU dmw for posting that!

Well, there it is. This all came down to the fact that Mike association with PF's competitor could not be proven... BUT THOSE WHO'VE BEEN AROUND HERE FOR A WHILE, know that's just not the case!!!

Miraculously, Mike joined forces with Protein Customizer after the testing. What a coinkydink!

It would have cost PF tens of thousands in additional court fees to prove that and it just wasn't worth it.

Meanwhile, PF has florished. Where is Customizer anyway? Actually, they weren't bad. They didn't have the selection that PF has, but the product was decent. It wasn't their fault that this bogus testing went down the way it did -- at least I hope that's the case. Bottom line: All's well that ends well.

how did they join forces, I know dave and mike and this is news to me

[HORMONEMAN]

how did they join forces, I know dave and mike and this is news to me

Correct me if I'm wrong. Did Mikes company not sell PC products?