Look Out!

[HORMONEMAN]

Here we go again.

Don't be surprised if this thread gets a bunch of hate simply because it's provocative. (Some people can't stand having their prejudices challanged). Of course, much like the thread on Fenugreek proved, most of the antagonists will have absolutely nothing to offer other than derision. Meanwhile in their attempt to prove how worthless it was, it winds up getting over 3000 hits. Heaven forbid somebody starts an interesting thread.

So let this be a warning. If you aren't looking to learn...leave. But if you're willing to debate, bring it on.

None of these studies are conclusive proof. it's mearly interesting evidence.


And yes, as stated in my sig, I am a rep for Protein Factory. (It's amazing how many people thought themselves clever for "busting " me on this).

Plain and simple, Vitex is classified as an ANTI-androgen. It raises progesterone. There have been claims that it lowers prolactin, but there is also evidence that it may raise it as well. It also lowers FSH. It developed popularity, as do many supplement ingredients -- through speculation, hype and rumor.

We don't use vitex. We feel no one should. Now, we COULD put it in some product. It's cheap as hell and a lot of people think it's great, so it would be easy enough to throw it in, speak about how wonderful it is, have the suckers thank us, and take the money and run. But that's not our style. Instead, we put our neck on the line. We might lose some business that way, but we feel that in the long run, there are more intelligent consumers than dumb ones. This is why we're one of the fastest growing companies on the net. People know a bargain when they see one. While others, sadly, will pay more money than they should out of hubris or spite or whatever silly reason they imagine has merit. Maybe they think they'll get the respect of the supplement sellers. (Hold on a minute while I stop laughing).

I know this will upset the board gestapo who want to monopolize the site, but this isn't for them. It's for people who like to learn, and debate, and discuss, and even present opposing opinions.


Why are you taking Vitex?


http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari


http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari


http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari

[laz]

Here we go again.

Don't be surprised if this thread gets a bunch of hate simply because it's provocative. (Some people can't stand having their prejudices challanged). Of course, much like the thread on Fenugreek proved, most of the antagonists will have absolutely nothing to offer other than derision. Meanwhile in their attempt to prove how worthless it was, it winds up getting over 3000 hits. Heaven forbid somebody starts an interesting thread.

So let this be a warning. If you aren't looking to learn...leave. But if you're willing to debate, bring it on.

None of these studies are conclusive proof. it's mearly interesting evidence.


And yes, as stated in my sig, I am a rep for Protein Factory. (It's amazing how many people thought themselves clever for "busting " me on this).

Plain and simple, Vitex is classified as an ANTI-androgen. It raises progesterone. There have been claims that it lowers prolactin, but there is also evidence that it may raise it as well. It also lowers FSH. It developed popularity, as do many supplement ingredients -- through speculation, hype and rumor.

We don't use vitex. We feel no one should. Now, we COULD put it in some product. It's cheap as hell and a lot of people think it's great, so it would be easy enough to throw it in, speak about how wonderful it is, have the suckers thank us, and take the money and run. But that's not our style. Instead, we put our neck on the line. We might lose some business that way, but we feel that in the long run, there are more intelligent consumers than dumb ones. This is why we're one of the fastest growing companies on the net. People know a bargain when they see one. While others, sadly, will pay more money than they should out of hubris or spite or whatever silly reason they imagine has merit. Maybe they think they'll get the respect of the supplement sellers. (Hold on a minute while I stop laughing).

I know this will upset the board gestapo who want to monopolize the site, but this isn't for them. It's for people who like to learn, and debate, and discuss, and even present opposing opinions.


Why are you taking Vitex?


http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari


http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari


http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari

You love debate dont u?

[Mr. Aries]

We don't use vitex. We feel no one should. Now, we COULD put it in some product. It's cheap as hell and a lot of people think it's great, so it would be easy enough to throw it in, speak about how wonderful it is, have the suckers thank us, and take the money and run. But that's not our style. Instead, we put our neck on the line. We might lose some business that way, but we feel that in the long run, there are more intelligent consumers than dumb ones. This is why we're one of the fastest growing companies on the net. People know a bargain when they see one. While others, sadly, will pay more money than they should out of hubris or spite or whatever silly reason they imagine has merit. Maybe they think they'll get the respect of the supplement sellers. (Hold on a minute while I stop laughing).

You had a solid post, and then jabbed in the middle is this paragraph. You could have stopped with the first sentence of this paragraph and it would have been all good.. But then came the rest.. I dont' understand why it had to become an advertisement of how great your company is. I thought this was abot VITEX!??!!? The minute I read this paragraph, it became competitor bashing and PF advertisement..

[laz]

You had a solid post, and then jabbed in the middle is this paragraph. You could have stopped with the first sentence of this paragraph and it would have been all good.. But then came the rest.. I dont' understand why it had to become an advertisement of how great your company is. I thought this was abot VITEX!??!!? The minute I read this paragraph, it became competitor bashing and PF advertisement..

Yeah WTF was the point of that paragraph?!?!?

[dito]

Nelson go away!

[jkeithc82]

Wow, with every inflammatory thread and post, name calling of members, and unprofessional attitude, I am heading right over to PF's website to make a huge order. Who's with me?

[nni]

every thread you make is a roundabout way to promote your own products. you bring nothing to this board.

[Ephedra]

Of course, much like the thread on Fenugreek proved

It was NEVER PROVEN. That debate was nothing but an 8 page flame war with no concrete evidence.

[HORMONEMAN]

You love debate dont u?

Yes.

That's how we learn.

[Mr. Aries]

how about threads with "pertinent names" instead of these nonsense names just so people click out of curiosity only to find a post that is nothing more than PF advertisement.

[nni]

RULE # 9 of bodybuilding.com
9) Thread titles must be descriptive. Do not start threads with titles such as "Help" or "How's this?". They will be closed or delete. Please state in the thread specifically what you're asking about, to avoid confusion and aggrevation of the other members.


please follow this rule.

also rule #10
10) Avoid giving bad/misleading advice. What we mean here, is if you don't know what you're talking about, please don't post about it. For example, If you have never used prohormones or don't know anything about them then you probably shouldn't be giving people advice about them. This is a general rule, but we want to try and stem some of the false information that has been given out by unexperienced members.

so quit pushing your products.

HIYO!!!!

seriously follow rule #9.

[laz]

Yes.

That's how we learn.

Not in your threads.

[HORMONEMAN]

Isn't this interesting? Six posts and not one of them pertaining to the topic. Nothing but ad hominum arguments. Hence, they're worthless.

I mentioned my affiliation with PF to be upfront. But obviously that does no good either. oh well.

This proves my point perfectly. The fools will throw meaningless insults. the intelligent members will observe. I'll wait for thier responses.

[Mr. Aries]

Isn't this interesting? Six posts and not one of them pertaining to the topic. Nothing but ad hominum arguments. Hence, they're worthless.

I mentioned my affiliation with PF to be upfront. But obviously that does no good either. oh well.

This proves my point perfectly. The fools will throw meaningless insults. the intelligent members will observe. I'll wait for thier responses.

actually.. we are following topic.. There were more words typed by you in that first post glorifying your company and bashing other companies than there are about the lack of evidence that VITEX works..

the rest of us are just following the bulk of your argument that PF is the hero company who dares to put it's "neck" on the line for the rest of us..


WE DO NOT AGREE

I have not BASHED your company or your products in any of my posts. I just question the way you try to promote the company with messages encrypted in your "advice threads"

[HORMONEMAN]

RULE # 9 of bodybuilding.com
9) Thread titles must be descriptive. Do not start threads with titles such as "Help" or "How's this?". They will be closed or delete. Please state in the thread specifically what you're asking about, to avoid confusion and aggrevation of the other members.


please follow this rule.

also rule #10
10) Avoid giving bad/misleading advice. What we mean here, is if you don't know what you're talking about, please don't post about it. For example, If you have never used prohormones or don't know anything about them then you probably shouldn't be giving people advice about them. This is a general rule, but we want to try and stem some of the false information that has been given out by unexperienced members.

so quit pushing your products.

HIYO!!!!

seriously follow rule #9.

I'll try to comply with the first rule.

As for the second one, I can be pretty confident in saying I know at least as much as you do, so...relax.

[HORMONEMAN]

actually.. we are following topic.. There were more words typed by you in that first post glorifying your company and bashing other companies than there are about the lack of evidence that VITEX works..

the rest of us are just following the bulk of your argument that PF is the hero company who dares to put it's "neck" on the line for the rest of us..


WE DO NOT AGREE

And your opinion on vitex is.....?

[Mr. Aries]

And your opinion on vitex is.....?

that it probably sux and is a minor ingredient at best in any product.

this is of course my opinion after very limited reading.

[nni]

I'll try to comply with the first rule.

As for the second one, I can be pretty confident in saying I know at least as much as you do, so...relax.

the second part was obviously a joke tough guy.

[jkeithc82]

Hence, they're worthless.

Much like your threads, and membership. Do you even understand the basic principles of a logic based arguement? If you you want to infom or hold a thought provoking discussion on vitex, fenugreek or reading labels that's fine. However, throwing in the fact that your company doesn't use these ingredients is folly, and serves no purpose, why? BECAUSE WE CAN ALL READ THE LABELS FOR OURSELVES!!!!!

<img src="http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7751/youlose4fz.gif">

[Punch1546]

I don't get it WTF is Vitex and why are you posting crap about transexuals???

[HORMONEMAN]

that it probably sux and is a minor ingredient at best in any product.

this is of course my opinion after very limited reading.

Okay, cool. I can live with that.

[HORMONEMAN]

Much like your threads, and membership. Do you even understand the basic principles of a logic based arguement? If you you want to infom or hold a thought provoking discussion on vitex, fenugreek or reading labels that's fine. However, throwing in the fact that your company doesn't use these ingredients is folly, and serves no purpose, why? BECAUSE WE CAN ALL READ THE LABELS FOR OURSELVES!!!!!

<img src="http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7751/youlose4fz.gif">

Do you have an optinion on Vitex or are you just going to follow me around and complain?

Look man, I've been training as long as you've been alive and I've been doing R&D in this business since you first discovered you had a friend in your pants that was more fun that Saturady morning cartoons. So, sit back and maybe you'll learn something, okay?

[pharm]

. So, sit back and maybe you'll learn something, okay?

No thanks. The next time I see your name as a thread starter, I'm going to ignore it. Hence, you are worthless.

[jkeithc82]

Look man, I've been training as long as you've been alive and I've been doing R&D in this business since you first discovered you had a friend in your pants that was more fun that Saturady morning cartoons. So, sit back and maybe you'll learn something, okay?

When you start debating from a logical standpoint and not to promote your company products, I will listen to everything you say.

And it was a magical day when I discovered masturbation, thank you for reminding me

[TE]

Here comes another worthless thread from HORMONEMAN!

[TE]

When you start debating from a logical standpoint and not to promote your company products, I will listen to everything you say.

And it was a magical day when I discovered masturbation, thank you for reminding me

jkeith, I think you know what time it is!!!

[matpal]

Nelson, you were banned...for among other reasons having multiple user ID's and trolling and then you say you are levaing never to come back. What gives?

Here we go again.

Don't be surprised if this thread gets a bunch of hate simply because it's provocative. (Some people can't stand having their prejudices challanged). Of course, much like the thread on Fenugreek proved, most of the antagonists will have absolutely nothing to offer other than derision. Meanwhile in their attempt to prove how worthless it was, it winds up getting over 3000 hits. Heaven forbid somebody starts an interesting thread.

So let this be a warning. If you aren't looking to learn...leave. But if you're willing to debate, bring it on.

None of these studies are conclusive proof. it's mearly interesting evidence.


And yes, as stated in my sig, I am a rep for Protein Factory. (It's amazing how many people thought themselves clever for "busting " me on this).

Plain and simple, Vitex is classified as an ANTI-androgen. It raises progesterone. There have been claims that it lowers prolactin, but there is also evidence that it may raise it as well. It also lowers FSH. It developed popularity, as do many supplement ingredients -- through speculation, hype and rumor.

We don't use vitex. We feel no one should. Now, we COULD put it in some product. It's cheap as hell and a lot of people think it's great, so it would be easy enough to throw it in, speak about how wonderful it is, have the suckers thank us, and take the money and run. But that's not our style. Instead, we put our neck on the line. We might lose some business that way, but we feel that in the long run, there are more intelligent consumers than dumb ones. This is why we're one of the fastest growing companies on the net. People know a bargain when they see one. While others, sadly, will pay more money than they should out of hubris or spite or whatever silly reason they imagine has merit. Maybe they think they'll get the respect of the supplement sellers. (Hold on a minute while I stop laughing).

I know this will upset the board gestapo who want to monopolize the site, but this isn't for them. It's for people who like to learn, and debate, and discuss, and even present opposing opinions.


Why are you taking Vitex?


http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari


http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari


http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari

[dio]

Nelson go away!

Nelson Montana?

[dito]

Correct.

[TE]

Nelson Montana?

Matthew & Gunnar Nelson?