Did deads for the first time last night....Uhgg

[Second Skin Rep]

Last night I decided to start using dead lifts as a part of my split.
Man do I feel it.. may lower back all day long is sore as ****.. I love it!
cant wait to start in with clean & press....


ANT

[MantisShrimp]

welcome to the dark side
choooooooooo
fshhhhhhhhhh
choooooooooo
fshhhhhhhhhh
</vader breaths>

edit: just finished a 305lb widowmaker on trap bar
ow
now on to squats, feeling a little overboard tonight

[thirsty4chicken]

Awesome. You'll be at 175 in no time with those.

[aqua-beowulf]

Last night I decided to start using dead lifts as a part of my split.
Man do I feel it.. may lower back all day long is sore as ****.. I love it!
cant wait to start in with clean & press....


ANT

Good for you man... things only get better from here

[Hola Bola]

welcome to the dark side
choooooooooo
fshhhhhhhhhh
choooooooooo
fshhhhhhhhhh
</vader breaths>

edit: just finished a 305lb widowmaker on trap bar
ow
now on to squats, feeling a little overboard tonight

Whats a widowmaker?

[aqua-beowulf]

Whats a widowmaker?

20 rep squats generally....

[MantisShrimp]

Whats a widowmaker?

usually applied to 20 rep squats but sometimes more generally to 20 rep sets w/ larger muscle groups, ie, deadlifts, squats, etc

[Hola Bola]

usually applied to 20 rep squats but sometimes more generally to 20 rep sets w/ larger muscle groups, ie, deadlifts, squats, etc

gotcha.

[The Real Deal]

i've always wondered if there was a purpose to 20 rep sets for hypertrophy. does it work along the lines of shocking?

[Hola Bola]

i've always wondered if there was a purpose to 20 rep sets for hypertrophy. does it work along the lines of shocking?

That would be my guess. Kinda like my "Crazy 10's."

[MrSinister]

all fun till the injuries come

[aqua-beowulf]

i've always wondered if there was a purpose to 20 rep sets for hypertrophy. does it work along the lines of shocking?

20 rep squats and a gallon of milk a day, is the best mass gaining program I ever tried... but it is a bitch, and that's why I just cycle them in from time to time.

[The Real Deal]

20 rep squats and a gallon of milk a day, is the best mass gaining program I ever tried... but it is a bitch, and that's why I just cycle them in from time to time.

i've heard of the milk before. when u did it, wat were the gains like? any fat gains? and do u ahve to do the milk with the 20 rep squats?

[aqua-beowulf]

i've heard of the milk before. when u did it, wat were the gains like? any fat gains? and do u ahve to do the milk with the 20 rep squats?

Yeah, you have to drink the milk during the 20 rep squat set.

LOL... j/k, couldn't resist.

When I did them religiously, I did one set of 20 rep squats followed by a light set of pullovers... to stretch the rib cage (waits for W8isGR8 to contradict)... two to three times per week... and drank 1/2 to 1 gallon of milk everyday, in addition to my regular meals. Some fat gain is inevitable on any bulk in my opinion, but it was tolerable, and I gained twenty pounds in about six weeks. But widowmakers are grueling... and I mean that. Most people don't do them right. I here it said all the time on here... "Yeah, I did three sets of twenty-reppers today, and then did leg press, ext., curls, blah, blah, blah". Believe me, if you do those twenty reps right (taking your ten rep max, and utilizing rest pause, and heavy deep breathing, knock out twenty reps), one set will completely wipe you.

[MantisShrimp]

i've always wondered if there was a purpose to 20 rep sets for hypertrophy. does it work along the lines of shocking?

The idea is that not only do larger muscle groups take more work to exhaust, but also they, especially the legs, are adapted to so much normal use (and in my case this involves carrying around a 180lb torso all day every day) that it takes higher rep work to really hit them with some people. Also higher rep = less weight, which means more careful form and less injury risk to the core, at least in my case.

[The_Champ01]

I like deads but I only ever do them now and then when I combine a back day with my leg day...

[billythefish2]

forget the deads. They are a useless and dangerous exercise for anyone apart from competitive powerlifters who have no choice. The only thing you will get out of them is a wide waist and big glutes if you have any regard for the look of your physique whatsoever you will look for alternatives.

[The Real Deal]

forget the deads. They are a useless and dangerous exercise for anyone apart from competitive powerlifters who have no choice. The only thing you will get out of them is a wide waist and big glutes if you have any regard for the look of your physique whatsoever you will look for alternatives.

i disagree. it didnt make my waist any wider or my butt any bigger. it did make my upper back thicker and my traps higher.

[Hola Bola]

forget the deads. They are a useless and dangerous exercise for anyone apart from competitive powerlifters who have no choice. The only thing you will get out of them is a wide waist and big glutes if you have any regard for the look of your physique whatsoever you will look for alternatives.

Huh? What have you been smoking?

[iron_on_my_mind]

forget the deads. They are a useless and dangerous exercise for anyone apart from competitive powerlifters who have no choice. The only thing you will get out of them is a wide waist and big glutes if you have any regard for the look of your physique whatsoever you will look for alternatives.

Deadlifts have been done for decades, and they have stood the test of time. Not many exercises work as many muscles as the deadlift, and no other exercise is a better test of overall body power. It is the bread-and-butter of any worthwhile mass-building program. In fact, if you choose to perform only a *single* compound exercise, then it should be the deadlift.

Injuries usually occur when your nutrient intake has not been proportional to progressive weight loads. A stronger body that is supported by correct caloric/protein intake (thus *growing*) can withstand (and profit from) heavier weight. For those who are especially nervous about the lower back, watch your form. Keep in mind, that Sumo-style deadlifts relieve much of the shearing forces from the lower back. Sumos are equally good as conventional deadlifts, and world records have been set in both styles.

[ShreddedShruggin]

Deadlifts have been done for decades, and they have stood the test of time. Not many exercises work as many muscles as the deadlift, and no other exercise is a better test of overall body power. It is the bread-and-butter of any worthwhile mass-building program. In fact, if you choose to perform only a *single* compound exercise, then it should be the deadlift.

Injuries usually occur when your nutrient intake has not been proportional to progressive weight loads. A stronger body that is supported by correct caloric/protein intake (thus *growing*) can withstand (and profit from) heavier weight. For those who are especially nervous about the lower back, watch your form. Keep in mind, that Sumo-style deadlifts relieve much of the shearing forces from the lower back. Sumos are equally good as conventional deadlifts, and world records have been set in both styles.

Great post, but it had nothing to do with the post you quoted.

-Grimface

[iron_on_my_mind]

He said deadlifts are a "useless and dangerous exercise."

My post clearly addresses the issue of utility. It also allays fears about it being dangerous.

As for criticizing the aesthetics, I'll leave that up to the people who actually *do* deadlifts.

[ShreddedShruggin]

As for criticizing the aesthetics, I'll leave that up to the people who actually *do* deadlifts.

lol

-Grimface

[MantisShrimp]

forget the deads. They are a useless and dangerous exercise for anyone apart from competitive powerlifters who have no choice. The only thing you will get out of them is a wide waist and big glutes if you have any regard for the look of your physique whatsoever you will look for alternatives.

Completely incorrect. Ask any guy who regularly deadlifts with correct form whether or not he experiences the same sorts of random lower back pain typically reported and complained about by the average sedentary individual, whether standing, sitting, or sleeping. He doesn't, because the proper USE of the back prevents this debilitating and chronic problem, which results from disuse and/or improper and intermittent use of the back.

Typical FUD where the solution is quoted as the problem...

Edit: Now wrt the logistics of including the deadlift in a program, IMO for non-powerlifters, they are best employed on a monthly basis, during a "light" or "cruise" week where they replace the two types of training they overlap--leg and back. Because the regular inclusion of a "Venn overlapping" exercise like deadlift as well as more specific exercises like heavy squats and rack pulls will result in overtraining of the legs, if not the back, if included regularly.

[billythefish2]

after a year or so of training virtually the first time i deadlifted i did 4 plates. Undoubtedly I have good natural leverage in the lift. It was also the last time I did the lift. I felt it in my hams, arms but in particular lower and mid back and waist. Almost certainly I rounded my back, watch the top guys powerlifting or at WSM many if not most do the same to some degree; it is unavoidable when pushing hard. Also my head felt like it would explode and a guy watching said words to that effect.
However I was lucky, I wasn't injured. But i did realise that all that movement was going to do was build bodyparts undesirably out of proportion, and with a high risk of injury. Bottom line there are better exercises for hitting hams hard, squats are safer and equally as demanding in promoting core strength and their style can be varied in many ways to emphasise different muscles. Deads MAY thicken your back, they WILL build your waistline.

[mike_d]

Completely incorrect. Ask any guy who regularly deadlifts with correct form whether or not he experiences the same sorts of random lower back pain typically reported and complained about by the average sedentary individual, whether standing, sitting, or sleeping. He doesn't, because the proper USE of the back prevents this debilitating and chronic problem, which results from disuse and/or improper and intermittent use of the back.

I used to have a "bad back" until I started a serious routine with deadlifts as a staple as the first lift of every back training day. My backs never been better, I sleep better, have better posture, no more "back pain", I manage to sit straighter even though I'm almost always on a computer, at work and for school.

Best thing I ever did for my back. No, they haven't made my waistline thicker, but they've made my butt tighter (the g/f likes it ), along with growing my traps and giving me a much more defined upper back look. They are probably my favorite excercise, and for a good reason. Oh, can't forget my ham's have blown up from them as well, but that could be from the combined stiff-legged deadlift training I do on leg day

after a year or so of training virtually the first time i deadlifted i did 4 plates. Undoubtedly I have good natural leverage in the lift. It was also the last time I did the lift. I felt it in my hams, arms but in particular lower and mid back and waist. Almost certainly I rounded my back, watch the top guys powerlifting or at WSM many if not most do the same to some degree; it is unavoidable when pushing hard. Also my head felt like it would explode and a guy watching said words to that effect.
However I was lucky, I wasn't injured. But i did realise that all that movement was going to do was build bodyparts undesirably out of proportion, and with a high risk of injury. Bottom line there are better exercises for hitting hams hard, squats are safer and equally as demanding in promoting core strength and their style can be varied in many ways to emphasise different muscles. Deads MAY thicken your back, they WILL build your waistline.

This is the exact post you made in the powerlifting section, so I wont even comment on whether or not you pulled 4 plates for your first ever deadlift. But the fact is, you BLATANTLY admit to using horrible form, not to mention horrible breathing technique. This isnt a lift you "try" once at max effort just to say you "did it", you need to learn proper form at 135lbs. Consider yourself lucky that you could walk after pulling 405 with your upper back.

People are smart enough not to load up 3 plates on a barbell and try to squat it to the floor for one rep if they've never done squats before, so why would you try and pull a 400lb barbell off the floor if you don't even know how to pull it properly?

I recommend you drop the ego and learn the lift properly. Its not just a "powerlifter lift", its great for overall upper back and hamstring development, but don't take my word for it

[Second Skin Rep]

Deadlifts have been done for decades, and they have stood the test of time. Not many exercises work as many muscles as the deadlift, and no other exercise is a better test of overall body power. It is the bread-and-butter of any worthwhile mass-building program. In fact, if you choose to perform only a *single* compound exercise, then it should be the deadlift.

Injuries usually occur when your nutrient intake has not been proportional to progressive weight loads. A stronger body that is supported by correct caloric/protein intake (thus *growing*) can withstand (and profit from) heavier weight. For those who are especially nervous about the lower back, watch your form. Keep in mind, that Sumo-style deadlifts relieve much of the shearing forces from the lower back. Sumos are equally good as conventional deadlifts, and world records have been set in both styles.

I have no idea what sumos are.. any tips? or pics? Tutorials?

ANT

[RobDude]

I have no idea what sumos are.. any tips? or pics? Tutorials?

ANT

I couldn't find this one on BB.com or ExRx.net - but my understanding is it's just a deadlift with your feet further apart.
http://www.hmc.psu.edu/ufc/resources.../2004/july.htm

[mike_d]

I have no idea what sumos are.. any tips? or pics? Tutorials?

ANT

"Convential" deadlifts - feet at about shoulder width stance, arms are just outside the legs. Bend down with a straight back, chest out, head up, grab the bar and lift (dont use this as a complete desription how to deadlift, do a few searches first and watch some videos if you can)

"Sumo" deadlifts - wider stance, arms between the legs, narrower grip, the advantage is the wider stance makes you closer to the floor...shorter ROM.

I've tried both, currently I like the conventional a little better. I'm a "shin scraper" on conventional deads though, it kinda sucks. I never really scraped my shins with a wide sumo stance (some people go VERY wide, mine was maybe a little less than double shoulder width). Also when I did sumos, my arms were straighter then they are on regular deadlifts, because on a regular deadlift I put them just outside my legs. They arent quite straight, I would say I have to travel about an extra 1.5 inches because of it. Even still, with the shin scraping and longer ROM, I still find regular deadlifts suit me a bit better. Sumo deads put some pressure on my outer hip flexors too, I dont get that off regular deadlifts.

[iron_on_my_mind]

I'm basically resigned to letting people decide what's good for them. If Billythefish thinks deadlifts aren't his thing, then so be it. At the very least, no deadlifts = no extra load on your back.

The sumo deadlift:

Google it, and have a look at some images. It's pretty straightforward.

Interesting article:

http://www.weightliftingdiscussion.c...harticles.html