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  1. #1
    Registered User glider007's Avatar
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    Triceps getting too much pump in shoulder exercises

    Can you recommend some tips to increase the effectiveness of my shoulder routine? My triceps seem to be stronger than shoulders and exercises such as dumbell presses, military press or behind the neck press really end up working my triceps with some minor benefits to my shoulders. I really don't want bigger triceps at this point.

    Instead of press and push exercises should I switch to isolation exercises? (Such as frontal raise and lateral raise only for shoulders and omit dumbell or military press which involve triceps muscles?)

    Any ideas or suggestions are welcome
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    Iron Snowflake W8isGR8's Avatar
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    laterals are awesome, don't be fooled by the "light weight" you use.
    I don't know either lol
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    Registered User NYYanksFan's Avatar
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    Well, first of all, lose the behind the neck presses. They are terrible for your shoulders.

    I don't know why you would be bringing your triceps into it so much. Make sure on all the movements that your hands are far enough apart that your triceps don't come into play as much. Also, consider trying Arnold Presses. They're awesome.

    As for isolation, I love doing lateral cable raises and bent over dumbbell lateral raises. Those paired with arnolds or military presses have proven very successful for me.
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    One thing can can smoke your shoulders really well is if you do a superset where you pre-exhaust the deltoids using lateral raises with dumbbells (I actually find that lateral raise machines work pretty well too) and once youve worked a set of 10-12 reps to failure, immediately switch to an overhead press, whether it be with dumbells or a machine, and do another set of 10-12 to failure. Sometimes on an overhead pressing movement the triceps will end up failing before the deltoids do, and so they end up getting bigger and the delts dont have to adapt. Pre-exhausting the delts should help to make sure that by the end of your overhead pressing set its the delts that are failing, and not the triceps. If you do that set with a lot of intensity, that can smoke your shoulders pretty well. If you didnt feel like it was intense enough, you can always repeat the superset.
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    Iron Snowflake W8isGR8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYYanksFan
    Well, first of all, lose the behind the neck presses. They are terrible for your shoulders.

    I don't know why you would be bringing your triceps into it so much. Make sure on all the movements that your hands are far enough apart that your triceps don't come into play as much. Also, consider trying Arnold Presses. They're awesome.

    As for isolation, I love doing lateral cable raises and bent over dumbbell lateral raises. Those paired with arnolds or military presses have proven very successful for me.
    so.........BTN presses are bad for the shoulders, but arnolds are fine?
    I don't know either lol
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  6. #6
    No cardio No cry RU4A69's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8
    so.........BTN presses are bad for the shoulders, but arnolds are fine?

    Lifting weights is inherently dangerous-deal with it




    Threadstarter-a wider grip on military presses will put less of the load on the tri's.
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8
    so.........BTN presses are bad for the shoulders, but arnolds are fine?
    Knock my ears off, I've heard it all now
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    Originally Posted by NYYanksFan
    Well, first of all, lose the behind the neck presses. They are terrible for your shoulders.

    I don't know why you would be bringing your triceps into it so much. Make sure on all the movements that your hands are far enough apart that your triceps don't come into play as much. Also, consider trying Arnold Presses. They're awesome.

    As for isolation, I love doing lateral cable raises and bent over dumbbell lateral raises. Those paired with arnolds or military presses have proven very successful for me.
    Btn pressing movements are fine if you have good shoulder girdle flexibility *waits for AJ to concur*, but Arnold presses are an RC disaster in the making.
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    Originally Posted by glider007
    Can you recommend some tips to increase the effectiveness of my shoulder routine? My triceps seem to be stronger than shoulders and exercises such as dumbell presses, military press or behind the neck press really end up working my triceps with some minor benefits to my shoulders. I really don't want bigger triceps at this point.

    Instead of press and push exercises should I switch to isolation exercises? (Such as frontal raise and lateral raise only for shoulders and omit dumbell or military press which involve triceps muscles?)

    Any ideas or suggestions are welcome
    Hey, what's your split look like? Make sure you're not training delts too soon after doing chest, or arms for that matter. If your tris haven't fully recovered from the last time you directly/indirectly trained them, it will really affect the quality of your pressing.
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  10. #10
    Train smarter, not harder $AJ's Avatar
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    triceps are involved in any type of pressing motion. period.
    <->
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  11. #11
    Registered User NYYanksFan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8
    so.........BTN presses are bad for the shoulders, but arnolds are fine?
    Perhaps Arnolds are not fine. There are several variations I've seen. The one I use has never been a problem.

    However, any behind the neck movement is generally dangerous. That is a straight fact. Sure, people do them and often can get away with it, but why risk it when there are countless other options?
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    Originally Posted by RU4A69
    Lifting weights is inherently dangerous-deal with it
    I think I heard that somewhere..........hmmmmmm
    I don't know either lol
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    At the top of the movement, dont lockout.

    Keep your arms slightly bent - - this will take some pressure of the tris and give your sholders more TUT.
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    Train smarter, not harder $AJ's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYYanksFan
    P
    However, any behind the neck movement is generally dangerous. That is a straight fact. S
    no, that is once again a clueless noob jumping on the band wagon

    btn is safe if you've developed shoulder girdle flexibility, blah blah blah
    <->
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    Originally Posted by $AJ
    no, that is once again a clueless noob jumping on the band wagon

    btn is safe if you've developed shoulder girdle flexibility, blah blah blah
    Right, and if you don't lower below mid-ear level, right? You could also try pressing dumbells with a false (thumbless) grip and bring them down to almost shoulder level, then back up in an arc-like motion. Works really well for me.
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    Originally Posted by $AJ
    no, that is once again a clueless noob jumping on the band wagon

    btn is safe if you've developed shoulder girdle flexibility, blah blah blah
    Then we can agree to disagree, because several people I know have either injured, re-injured or worsened an injury due to some form of behind the neck presses.

    P.S. I'm far from clueless and far from a noob. But thanks for the compliments.
    Last edited by NYYanksFan; 11-10-2005 at 06:40 PM.
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    Originally Posted by NYYanksFan
    Then we can agree to disagree, because several people I know have either injured, re-injured or worsened an injury due to some form of behind the neck presses.

    P.S. I'm far from clueless and far from a noob. But thanks for the compliments.
    Relax... AJ's always overly friendly like that
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    But it says in Flex than BTN movements are bad
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    Registered User glider007's Avatar
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    Thanks for the suggestions guys. My triceps and chest are a little stronger than the rest because when I was in high school I used to do about 100 push ups everyday for 3 years without any other exercise. Wider grips seem to work good by the way. On one other suggestion, how long can one continue doing pre exhausts? 1month, 2 months? (Like do lateral raises 10-12 reps and then do shoulder press) Somehwhere I heard it is not very good to utilize these techniques over extended periods.

    Again, your suggestions for the following plan will be most appreciated:
    Right now, I don't have any bench press exercises in my program since my goal is balance. I am thinking of omitting chest exercises for 6 months.During this time I just plan to to bench every other two week to keep the current strength and size. I think I will do frontal raises, lateral raises and bent over raises to hit three shoulder muscles, as well as one barbell or Smith machine press, frequency: 2 times a week. (would 3 times be too much?)

    Do you prefer Smith machine or barbell military press?

    By the way, I am not an advanced bodybuilder, I have worked usually 6 months on and 6 months off for 8-9 years. I started exercising again 4 months ago after a year off, but this time I plan to continue at least 1 year before I get lazy again and take another break
    Last edited by glider007; 11-11-2005 at 12:38 AM.
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    Originally Posted by NYYanksFan
    Then we can agree to disagree, because several people I know have either injured, re-injured or worsened an injury due to some form of behind the neck presses.

    P.S. I'm far from clueless and far from a noob. But thanks for the compliments.
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    <->
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    im sure spelling it out in large print will make him udnerstand better
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    Rofl
    Move along, nothing to see here
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    ROFL

    Eat+Sleep+train+sleep+eat+eat+train = guud.

    Shoulders..well if you feel them hurting dont do the motion anymore..get help or do another exercise for it. Some folks just arent equipped for certain movements, its nothing to be ashamed of because nobody is 100% free moving..Even Ronnie think of it..at that size im sure there are a few restrictions placed on him.. granted id take the size over any restriction hehe short of a small yellow bus.
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    Originally Posted by glider007
    Thanks for the suggestions guys. My triceps and chest are a little stronger than the rest because when I was in high school I used to do about 100 push ups everyday for 3 years without any other exercise. Wider grips seem to work good by the way. On one other suggestion, how long can one continue doing pre exhausts? 1month, 2 months? (Like do lateral raises 10-12 reps and then do shoulder press) Somehwhere I heard it is not very good to utilize these techniques over extended periods.

    Again, your suggestions for the following plan will be most appreciated:
    Right now, I don't have any bench press exercises in my program since my goal is balance. I am thinking of omitting chest exercises for 6 months.During this time I just plan to to bench every other two week to keep the current strength and size. I think I will do frontal raises, lateral raises and bent over raises to hit three shoulder muscles, as well as one barbell or Smith machine press, frequency: 2 times a week. (would 3 times be too much?)

    Do you prefer Smith machine or barbell military press?

    By the way, I am not an advanced bodybuilder, I have worked usually 6 months on and 6 months off for 8-9 years. I started exercising again 4 months ago after a year off, but this time I plan to continue at least 1 year before I get lazy again and take another break
    I would not keep chest out of your routine, or train it any less frequently. Just because one group overpowers others, it doesn't mean you don't train it. You just may want to work the lagging groups more intensely, more often, with different set/rep schemes, etc to help catch them up.

    As for smith machines, I'm sure I'll get another friendly response here, they are next to worthless. Always use dumbbells, spotting cages and/or a spotter over the smith machine. Smith machines limit your ROM greatly and also put stress in places free weights do not.

    What does your split look like? Posting that up may make it easier to offer some more help.


    As for BTN presses, you guys can laugh it up all you want, but conisdering it was his 1st post and he didn't sound very experienced, I'd have a hard time recommending them. If you guys see nothing wrong with them, great, but there's a reason the movement is so controversial among professionals.
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    Originally Posted by NYYanksFan
    As for smith machines, I'm sure I'll get another friendly response here, they are next to worthless. Always use dumbbells, spotting cages and/or a spotter over the smith machine. Smith machines limit your ROM greatly and also put stress in places free weights do not.
    No, no disagreement on that one
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  26. #26
    Registered User glider007's Avatar
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    Here is my split: (as it is now without bench presses,)
    With all my exercises, my last set consists of 2 parts,. I first perform 8 reps until failure then drop the weight by 30-40% and keep performing the exercise again to failure. If I have a spotter, then I do a 9th rep with help and then drop the weight by 30-40% and keep going until failure(no help from a spotter with that part though)

    Day1-
    Dumbell Press 4 sets(15-12-10-8* drop the weight by 30 40% and continue until failure) I slightly lower the back seat of the bench here, so instead of being completely vertical at 90 degrees, the back seat is slightly inclined, around 70-80 degrees so my upper chest is slightly recruited in this exercise as well. I find it safer to load heavier weights when my back is supported with that slight angle since I had a back injury 3 years ago.
    Lateral Raise 4 sets *same as above
    Frontal Raise 4 sets *same as above

    Day2-
    Rear shoulder row with lever 4 sets
    Seated cable rows 4 sets
    Rear lat pull down 4 sets
    sometimes biceps here, sometimes with barbell sometimes with dumbell, again, 4 sets. Rows usually give me a huge biceps pump.


    Day3-Leg, abs day-squats, calves, leg extensions, crunches etc.
    To keep chest get at least some exercise, I do seated flies with lever; 4sets with medium weights

    Day4 -off
    Day5-same as Day1

    Sometimes, I just spread legs and abs among the first 2 days. If that's the case Day3 becomes resting day and on Day4 I start again.
    Last edited by glider007; 11-11-2005 at 09:30 AM.
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  27. #27
    I need to eat darklight79's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8
    laterals are awesome, don't be fooled by the "light weight" you use.
    ^^^^^^

    Yeah, good one. I see too many people do ego lifts on lateral raises. Seen a flapping chicken?
    *Someday I want to meet this "Everyone," he seems to have written so very much, yet all of it is wrong.
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  28. #28
    Registered User AkiraFudo's Avatar
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    Front raises?
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  29. #29
    Yells at clouds BS57's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AkiraFudo View Post
    Front raises?
    2005?
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  30. #30
    Replies in 1/2 hr - 3 day GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    Plus front raises aren't that great.
    You eat where you're at.
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