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  1. #1
    UndergroundStrength.net bigswoleKA's Avatar
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    Squat Program by Pavel Tsatsouline

    I just started the "Hot Wheels" program by Pavel Tsatsouline. It calls for squatting 3 times a week, for 10x5, 30 seconds to 3 minutes rest. the first workout starts w/ only 50% of your max, adding 10 lbs per workout. You continue this for 4 weeks. For example, if your best raw squat is 460 lbs, the first workout you'll use 230lbs for 10 sets of 5 reps. By the 12th workout, you'll be using 350 lbs for 10x5.

    I take this to be an off season program or to be followed up with a peaking program, this is just what i assume.

    Has anyone used this program or what do you think about it?
    STAY SWOLE!

    RAW- belt and wraps only
    Squat- 465
    Bench- 415
    Deadlift- 585
    Herniated Discs- 2 (at the same time)

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  2. #2
    Registered User Five's Avatar
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    Why would you follow a squat program designed by someone that can't squat for ****?

    Just a thought.
    Professional strength and conditioning coach - Rugby Union
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    Olympic Lifter raffiki's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Five
    Why would you follow a squat program designed by someone that can't squat for ****?

    Just a thought.
    He does happen to know 200X time more than you about strength training.

    It looks like a tough program, but it should work well. I've thought about using it, but I don't want to gain weight right now. That's a great book isn't it?
    "However, the strength of the hamstring muscles is crucial to fully exploit the strength potential of the quads and ultimately the vertical force that the athlete is able to impart to the barbell." - Andrew Charniga, Jr.
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    Banned Henry_s return's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Five
    Why would you follow a squat program designed by someone that can't squat for ****?

    Just a thought.
    Because the man forgot more this morning than you'll ever learn. He's trained sf guys for the soviets and now for the US. Heknows how to build true strength and power. Look at his record.
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    Registered User Strongerthanall's Avatar
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    that program really really sucks
    Squat- 620 max. with knee wraps and belt. 405x 20
    Bench- 455 raw
    deadlift- 555 with belt



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    Registered User Five's Avatar
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    I'm sure he knows more than me about how to flip kettlebells, and how to kill an enemy soldier using just your eyebrows; but I sure as hell know more than him about powerlifting and how to squat big.

    I did some research on Pavel for giggles, and it turns out he did deadlift only in a powerlifting meet a few weeks back, and do you know what he lifted? 450lbs. Now, clearly the deadlift is his strong lift or he would have gone squat only, bench only, or full meet. After all you always play to your strengths.

    So if his deadlift is that embarrassingly weak, imagine what his squat must be like? Maybe he can squat 350lbs on a good day?

    I'm sorry but numbers speak for themselves, and he DOES NOT know what he's talking about when it comes to squatting.
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  7. #7
    Must. Slap. Dumb. Asses. Jay M.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Five
    I'm sure he knows more than me about how to flip kettlebells, and how to kill an enemy soldier using just your eyebrows; but I sure as hell know more than him about powerlifting and how to squat big.

    I did some research on Pavel for giggles, and it turns out he did deadlift only in a powerlifting meet a few weeks back, and do you know what he lifted? 450lbs. Now, clearly the deadlift is his strong lift or he would have gone squat only, bench only, or full meet. After all you always play to your strengths.

    So if his deadlift is that embarrassingly weak, imagine what his squat must be like? Maybe he can squat 350lbs on a good day?

    I'm sorry but numbers speak for themselves, and he DOES NOT know what he's talking about when it comes to squatting.
    I fully agree. Also, how many ****ing "Soviet Special Forces" trainers are out there? Seems like a new one every month. If it were an article on how to arm wrestle, I would be inclined to take a look into it as Pavel has proven himself as an arm wrestler but Squat King? Hell no.
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    Banned kliplemet's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Five
    Why would you follow a squat program designed by someone that can't squat for ****?

    Just a thought.
    zatsiorsky,Dvorkin,Verkhoshansky,Bompa,Siff,Laputi n,Medvedyev,Shakirzyanov,Roman :none of them can squat ****, but still they have knowledge that is worth solid gold for the strength trainer.

    just a thought

    (I don't like pavel though, but don't know enough of his stuff to dismiss him)
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  9. #9
    Banned Nights's Avatar
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    i heard the guy who does tae bo also trained special forces
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    I hate to say it, but I'd be more apt to use a program that has results. Gillingham's looks good, don't forget Westside. I can't say I've ever run into anyone who's told me they use this thing.

    And those programs are written by people who DO squat high-ass numbers.
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    Olympic Lifter raffiki's Avatar
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    Taking routines from big squatters only means you get what worked for them. Pavel has done his research from all over the world in areas from martial arts to physical rehab. You would have to be a fool to dismiss what he writes about because he gets his info from the people that really know. He doesn't just make it up.

    As far as this routine goes, if you've started you should finish. Smolov is a high frequency program that yield amazing results. This isn't as severe, so you should be able to handle it. Legs do respond to that sort of training.

    On the side, a 450lb deadlift by a 170lb business man who is often times traveling and focuses on conditioning more than ultimate strength is really good. Do you have the link for that?
    "However, the strength of the hamstring muscles is crucial to fully exploit the strength potential of the quads and ultimately the vertical force that the athlete is able to impart to the barbell." - Andrew Charniga, Jr.
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    Your little trauma sponge ZachG85's Avatar
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    Well where are the results? What record-setting squatters have come from Pavel's routines?
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    Walkin'tall machinegunman PrivateBaldrick's Avatar
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    To shed some light on Mr. Tsatsouline:

    I attended a seminar of his last year here in Sacramento and he specifically told the audience not to squat. I am not making this up! The only reason he gave was that the thighs would get so large that they would chafe! He recommended deadlifts to build leg strength, which don't give my legs near enough of a workout. He also espoused wierd kettlebell training, like holding a kettlebell in your outstretched arm. Then he spent some time dissing bodybuilding, saying that bodybuilders don't have much "functional strength," that their muscles are big but not strong. Keep in mind, the man is an unimpressive looking specimen, about 170 pounds, I would say. He has a loud voice, though!
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    Your little trauma sponge ZachG85's Avatar
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    Well, "don't squat" doesn't help powerlifters much, does it?
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    Walkin'tall machinegunman PrivateBaldrick's Avatar
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    I know. I was pretty disappointed.
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    Originally Posted by ZachG85
    Well, "don't squat" doesn't help powerlifters much, does it?
    He's dealing with the goals of a functional athlete, not powerlifters. That's not to say that powerlifters aren't functional, but there are certainly better ways to gain ultimate functionality than focusing on powerlifting. Look at Bruce Lee. He was 145 and couldn't lift huge numbers, but he was more functionally strong than any of you guys dissing Pavel.

    I think you should keep an open mind when it comes to gaining strength. Pavel knows what he's talking about.
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    Walkin'tall machinegunman PrivateBaldrick's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The_Hobbit
    He's dealing with the goals of a functional athlete, not powerlifters. That's not to say that powerlifters aren't functional, but there are certainly better ways to gain ultimate functionality than focusing on powerlifting. Look at Bruce Lee. He was 145 and couldn't lift huge numbers, but he was more functionally strong than any of you guys dissing Pavel.

    I think you should keep an open mind when it comes to gaining strength. Pavel knows what he's talking about.
    Okay, but if you want the best way to gain leg strength, squats are it.
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    Now this is functional strength

    rofl
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    Originally Posted by The_Hobbit
    He's dealing with the goals of a functional athlete, not powerlifters. That's not to say that powerlifters aren't functional, but there are certainly better ways to gain ultimate functionality than focusing on powerlifting. Look at Bruce Lee. He was 145 and couldn't lift huge numbers, but he was more functionally strong than any of you guys dissing Pavel.

    I think you should keep an open mind when it comes to gaining strength. Pavel knows what he's talking about.
    Define "functional strength". He was strong to what he trained for, weak to what he wasn't. Incredibly good with making his body move quickly and with force, but he couldn't move external resistance very well.

    What tasks are needed for it to be considered "functional"? Years ago a powerlifter helped my family move and the bastard put a piano in a pickup truck all by himself.

    I don't believe there is a such thing as functional strength in the absolute sense. A powerlifter develops strength for powerlifting. His strength is functional for his goals. An oly lifter does the same. The ONLY people who have no functional strength are bodybuilders, and that's because strength isn't even a goal for most of them.

    Besides, wouldn't WSM be perfect functional strength almost by virtue of the competition? It's training strength and endurance in almost every possible situation.
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  20. #20
    Registered User Radok's Avatar
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    Just do the Russian peaking Routine or smolov, we all know they work. There are online calculators for either.
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    I'll just jump in on pavels nuts, I've read a bit of his stuff, I think hes more concerned with strength endurance and martial arts type sports specific things, wrestling, etc. As a matter of fact, on the dragondoor forum once someone asked him what his lifts in the big 3 were, and he stated point blank that they weren't his forte. You don't often see good all around athletes, fast runners, good wrestlers etc with 3x bodyweight squats, being a good powerlifter requires too much specific training. even take this program, it seems to me to be much more aimed at increasing endurance. I'm a bit of a noob, albeit a fairly well read one, so someone please correct me if i'm disseminating false information here, but thats just my two cents
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    Registered User Ashford's Avatar
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    He might have great knowledge but I think he is most concerned with making money. Among the weightlifting groups on usenet there were many people that posted as paid shills of Pavel's company trying to sell his stuff. I don't know if they are still there or not but back when I posted on usenet they were all over the strength forums.
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    yea im not sure about pavel. The dragon door strength forum seems to have a kind of sinsister atmosphere, like they would want to tie you up and administer drugs and repeat "pavel is the best" and play videos of his face and ****

    dragon door nutrition forum is great though for alternative vies on nutrition
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    Originally Posted by Ashford
    He might have great knowledge but I think he is most concerned with making money. Among the weightlifting groups on usenet there were many people that posted as paid shills of Pavel's company trying to sell his stuff. I don't know if they are still there or not but back when I posted on usenet they were all over the strength forums.
    I agree, he also pushes kettlebells and says they are the working man's version of olympic lifting, which is something elite

    the funny thing is you can join a weightlifting gym for much less than his kettlebells
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  25. #25
    Registered User Radok's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ted2
    I'll just jump in on pavels nuts, I've read a bit of his stuff, I think hes more concerned with strength endurance and martial arts type sports specific things, wrestling, etc. As a matter of fact, on the dragondoor forum once someone asked him what his lifts in the big 3 were, and he stated point blank that they weren't his forte. You don't often see good all around athletes, fast runners, good wrestlers etc with 3x bodyweight squats, being a good powerlifter requires too much specific training. even take this program, it seems to me to be much more aimed at increasing endurance. I'm a bit of a noob, albeit a fairly well read one, so someone please correct me if i'm disseminating false information here, but thats just my two cents
    Ben Johnson, the fastest runner in the world in his prime, squated 600x8. That is pretty good if you ask me. With a squat like that, it could be assumed that his deadlift wouldn't suck, it should be over 500 even if he didn't train it. I don't know what he could bench.
    "When other people drink my drink, that means I'm not drinking my drink, and that's f-cking bull****."-NugzTheNinja

    300x1, 225x10 bench

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    Your little trauma sponge ZachG85's Avatar
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    And Larry Allen "bench pressed" 700 pounds raw without powerlifting training.
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    Originally Posted by Radok
    Ben Johnson, the fastest runner in the world in his prime, squated 600x8. That is pretty good if you ask me. With a squat like that, it could be assumed that his deadlift wouldn't suck, it should be over 500 even if he didn't train it. I don't know what he could bench.


    sprinter or distance runner? i'd be interested to know what he benched, if he just had good lower body from running or if he was a strong guy. either way though, i'm just saying you don't see many, i'm not arguing that its impossible, and if his sole purpose in life is to yammer about kettlebells, and the heaviest kettlebell weighs like 88 lbs, its not surprising to find out that his deadlift is only 450.
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    Walkin'tall machinegunman PrivateBaldrick's Avatar
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    At the seminar I went to, he brought in a couple of his protoges who dazzled the crowd with their ability to press 55lb. kettlebells over their heads. Seriously though, everyone (except me) seemed to be very impressed with their strength. Pavel makes it sound like there is something magical about kettlebells, that they work the muscles better than dumbells, but there is a reason they were abandoned in favor of dumbells in about, oh, 1940. Ben Johnson was a Canadian sprinter who won the gold medal in the 100m at the '88 Olympics, but was disqualified after testing positive for stanazolol and GH. He was a pretty muscular guy, but I wouldn't have thought he could squat that much. That's impressive.
    Last edited by PrivateBaldrick; 11-04-2005 at 01:01 AM.
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    Registered User Dorique's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigswoleKA
    I just started the "Hot Wheels" program by Pavel Tsatsouline. It calls for squatting 3 times a week, for 10x5, 30 seconds to 3 minutes rest. the first workout starts w/ only 50% of your max, adding 10 lbs per workout. You continue this for 4 weeks. For example, if your best raw squat is 460 lbs, the first workout you'll use 230lbs for 10 sets of 5 reps. By the 12th workout, you'll be using 350 lbs for 10x5.

    I take this to be an off season program or to be followed up with a peaking program, this is just what i assume.

    Has anyone used this program or what do you think about it?
    I know a cycle for off season :

    Take your 10 RM

    OK ?

    Each training : ten sets with 1 minutes 30 sec rest
    Two or three training by week

    Training 1 : 10*5@100%(10RM)
    Training 2 : 10*4@105%(10RM)
    Training 3 : 10*3@110%(10RM)
    Training 4 : 10*5@105%(10RM)
    Training 5 : 10*4@110%(10RM)
    Training 6 : 10*3@115%(10RM)

    After that, do a another cycle like that with your new 10 RM or do a more intense less volumic training
    Last edited by Dorique; 11-04-2005 at 03:26 AM.
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  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by PrivateBaldrick View Post
    I attended a seminar of his last year here in Sacramento and he specifically told the audience not to squat. I am not making this up! The only reason he gave was that the thighs would get so large that they would chafe! He recommended deadlifts to build leg strength, which don't give my legs near enough of a workout. He also espoused wierd kettlebell training, like holding a kettlebell in your outstretched arm. Then he spent some time dissing bodybuilding, saying that bodybuilders don't have much "functional strength," that their muscles are big but not strong. Keep in mind, the man is an unimpressive looking specimen, about 170 pounds, I would say. He has a loud voice, though!
    I know this is a really old post but this has actually happened to me and now my thighs chafe. It really got more noticeable once I switched to high bar squats.
    powerlifting meet PRs at 175lbs:
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