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  1. #1
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    Exclamation If you have rosacea....avoid Arachidonic Acid

    This is something that I've been discussing with a dermatologist(not personal, just a friend that I have) off and on for the past 3 weeks. Folks with rosacea tend to be extremely sensitive to excess carbohydrates, especially simple sugars, which can lead to out-of-control episodes of flushing. This mechanism, as a lot of other things related to rosacea, is not entirely understood, but it has become clear that a portion of the problem relating to rosacea is that in response to insulin release, the body produces Phospholipase A2, which stimulates arachidonic acid release. This is a study I came across that I believe can be relevant to rosacea sufferers, both as a diet advisory and a warning on use of supplements in general for those with this condition.


    Song K, Zhang X, Zhao C, Ang NT, Ma ZA.

    Division of Experimental Diabetes and Aging, Department of Geriatrics and Adult Development, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York, New York 10029, USA.

    Islet Ca2+-independent phospholipase A2 (iPLA2) is postulated to mediate insulin secretion by releasing arachidonic acid in response to insulin secretagogues. However, the significance of iPLA2 signaling in insulin secretion in vivo remains unexplored. Here we investigated the physiological role of iPLA2 in beta-cell lines, isolated islets, and mice. We showed that small interfering RNA-specific silencing of iPLA2 expression in INS-1 cells significantly reduced insulin-secretory responses of INS-1 cells to glucose. Immunohistochemical analysis revealed that mouse islet cells expressed significantly higher levels of iPLA2 than pancreatic exocrine acinar cells. Bromoenol lactone (BEL), a selective inhibitor of iPLA2, inhibited glucose-stimulated insulin secretion from isolated mouse islets; this inhibition was overcome by exogenous arachidonic acid. We also showed that iv BEL administration to mice resulted in sustained hyperglycemia and reduced insulin levels during glucose tolerance tests. Clamp experiments demonstrated that the impaired glucose tolerance was due to insufficient insulin secretion rather than decreased insulin sensitivity. Short-term administration of BEL to mice had no effect on fasting glucose levels and caused no apparent pathological changes of islets in pancreas sections. These results unambiguously demonstrate that iPLA2 signaling plays an important role in glucose-stimulated insulin secretion under physiological conditions.

    PMID: 15471944 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


    Since rosacea is considered an inflammatory disease, I would advise all folks who have been diagnosed with this, to avoid any sort of inflammatory compounds as well. I myself was diagnosed with rosacea back when I was 16, and it is something that I managed to get under control thanks to manipulating my diet and lifestyle to overcome the condition. One thing I noticed recently while using an arachidonic acid product is that I had a large increase in facial redness, which had been nonexistent for several years prior to my use of this product. I only really noticed it because as soon as I went back on high-dose fish oil and cut out the product, the redness began to clear up almost on cue.

    My rosacea is well under control, but I would advise anyone else suffering from this condition to consult with their dermatologist before using ANY supplements other than plain protein supps and fish oil, which has been proven to be ultra-beneficial in the case of rosacea. You should also avoid any vasodilators such as arginine, to the maximum extent possible, as they will only worsen your condition over time.

    Some more info.


    Inflammation in skin is mediated by several active chemicals and metabolites of arachidonic acid. Arachidonic acid is oxidized by cyclo-oxygenase and lipoxygenase to active metabolites such as the leukotrienes and 5- and 12-hydroxyeicosatetraenoic acid (HETES). Within the arachidonic acid cascade, many free radicals are generated, which both perpetuate and magnify the inflammatory cascade, resulting in skin damage and manifested clinically as erythema. The redox state of the cell determines gene expression. Transcription factor nuclear factor kappa-B (NFκ-B) is inactive in the cytosol under a normal redox state of the cell. When the cell undergoes oxidative stress, i.e., ultraviolet radiation, ionizing radiation, infection, and free radicals created by metabolism, the inhibitory fraction of NFκ-B is dissociated from the molecule. Once the inhibitory fraction is dissociated from the NFκB molecule, it then migrates to the nucleus of the cell, begins transcription, and subsequent production of inflammatory mediators, including cytokines such as tumor necrosis factor alpha (TFα) and various interleukins, as well as many of the pro-inflammatory interleukins. These pro-inflammatory and inflammatory products of transcription then enter the cell cytoplasm effecting all parts of the cell including the mitochondria and cell membrane. Arachidonic acid is released, which is oxidized to biologically active mediators. When arachidonic acid is oxidized via the cyclooxygenase or lipoxygenase pathways, for example, prostaglandins, leukotrines, and hydroxyeicosatetraenoic acid (HETE) are produced, which cause erythema, edema, and free radical production. Lipoic acid is a powerful inhibitor of the activation of NFκ-B, and therefore can act as an anti-inflammatory as well as an antioxidant. It would be useful to employ this substance in the treatment of chronic skin conditions such as rosacea.


    To combat inflammation, green tea extract, K-R-ALA, Vitamin C and borage oil are also great compounds to use. As mentioned before, if suffering from rosacea, you should absolutely minimize the use of foods that promote heavy insulin release, as this only leads to further systemic inflammation. The ideal diet for rosaceans is one that is heavy in vegetables, fish, lean meats and minimizes simple sugars in all their forms.



    14 million+ Americans suffer from rosacea, and the vast majority don't realize it. If you experience persistent facial redness, burning eyes, skin flareups due to heat/alcohol/spicy foods...etc........it is not something you should ignore, but rather get a checkup with a dermatologist. When treated early, rosacea is very simple to control, but if you wait, there is irreversible damage that can occur to your skin, the most notorius being the "Orson Welles nose.


    www.rosacea.org



    Once again, I am not bashing arachidonic acid or any products that contain it. I used one that I was very happy with, as my gains were terrific, and I recommend it to any healthy person, as it is perhaps the most efficient compound for natural athletes to gain muscle with, however, I do urge caution to those with inflammatory disorders such as rosacea and various digestive issues that I believe would be worsened through the supplementation of arachidonic acid.





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    Last edited by ElMariachi; 12-16-2007 at 07:31 PM.
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    The following is a list of trigger substances/foods that folks with rosacea should be wary of. Not all of these will affect everyone the same, but these are commonly reported triggers that can flare up and dramatically worsen the condition.


    http://www.joiedevie.com/common_rosa...gers_lists.htm
    Last edited by ElMariachi; 12-16-2007 at 09:45 PM.
    Russell Wilson, the first QB in NFL history to throw a game-winning interception.

    "So you got fired again eh?" "Yeah, they always freak out when you leave the scene of an accident."

    Spiders are like offensive linemen, the best ones do their job and you never notice them.

    An obvious example of New Math.
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    Unfortunately, this logic normally applies to those with psoriasis as well (it's too bad, because X-Factor seems to work so well).

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    Originally Posted by NO HYPE View Post
    Unfortunately, this logic normally applies to those with psoriasis as well.


    I would also recommend it to those with pretty severe acne....ie....cystic acne and such. Due to some fantastic studies, understanding of various skin conditions has improved by leaps and bounds over the past 10 years. There is still a lot to learn, but it has become pretty obvious that people prone to these conditions have inherent issues with inflammation, especially when it comes to insulin release, which even in moderate amounts, can be problematic.


    This is why in studies, low-carb diets combined with fish oil have worked wonders for folks with these afflictions.
    Russell Wilson, the first QB in NFL history to throw a game-winning interception.

    "So you got fired again eh?" "Yeah, they always freak out when you leave the scene of an accident."

    Spiders are like offensive linemen, the best ones do their job and you never notice them.

    An obvious example of New Math.
    "It was a 2% tax hike, dumbass. From 3% to 5%"-NRKF84

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    Originally Posted by ElMariachi View Post
    I would also recommend it to those with pretty severe acne....ie....cystic acne and such. Due to some fantastic studies, understanding of various skin conditions has improved by leaps and bounds over the past 10 years. There is still a lot to learn, but it has become pretty obvious that people prone to these conditions have inherent issues with inflammation, especially when it comes to insulin release, which even in moderate amounts, can be problematic.


    This is why in studies, low-carb diets combined with fish oil have worked wonders for folks with these afflictions.
    Good to know. I wondered why my face was always clear on a TKD.

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    Exclamation Good thread!

    Very intriguing thread indeed. I'm curious to see if more informative educational information pops up....
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    Rosacea & NO booster

    Hi.

    I'm wondering if N.O booster (Arginine, N.O Limits...) may worsen rosacea?

    Thanks a lot
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    Bump? :-]
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    Originally Posted by jench View Post
    Hi.

    I'm wondering if N.O booster (Arginine, N.O Limits...) may worsen rosacea?

    Thanks a lot


    Yes....absolutely. Any sort of vasodilators will worsen rosacea, lead to blushing.
    Russell Wilson, the first QB in NFL history to throw a game-winning interception.

    "So you got fired again eh?" "Yeah, they always freak out when you leave the scene of an accident."

    Spiders are like offensive linemen, the best ones do their job and you never notice them.

    An obvious example of New Math.
    "It was a 2% tax hike, dumbass. From 3% to 5%"-NRKF84

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    Originally Posted by ElMariachi View Post
    Yes....absolutely. Any sort of vasodilators will worsen rosacea, lead to blushing.

    Thanks, damn N.O Limits is great and I have to stop it :-(
    Designer supplements must stay on business! :-(

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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by jench View Post
    Thanks, damn N.O Limits is great and I have to stop it :-(


    I came across a rather recent study that suggested that GLPC might not be as harsh in regards to aggravating rosacea as other compounds, although I still would urge caution in that situation.



    The other thing to check out is "The Rosacea Diet" which anecdotal evidence suggests is doing wonders for many people. This is basically a hardcore guerilla diet with no sugar and very minimal carbs. People have reported acne and rosacea resolving rapidly......this is actually the same sort of diet that I used awhile back to finally get my own rosacea under control.


    It is green veggie and fish heavy, with lots of poultry, minimal red meat and no refined carbs of any kind. Not the easiest diet to follow, but it does get results, so if you're suffering from problem skin due to acne or rosacea......or even psoriasis(GLA found in borage oil is very helpful for this) then this diet is worth a shot for sure!
    Russell Wilson, the first QB in NFL history to throw a game-winning interception.

    "So you got fired again eh?" "Yeah, they always freak out when you leave the scene of an accident."

    Spiders are like offensive linemen, the best ones do their job and you never notice them.

    An obvious example of New Math.
    "It was a 2% tax hike, dumbass. From 3% to 5%"-NRKF84

  12. #12
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    Thanks. My fiancee has rosacea so this helps.
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    Originally Posted by ElMariachi View Post
    To combat inflammation, green tea extract, K-R-ALA, Vitamin C and borage oil are also great compounds to use. As mentioned before, if suffering from rosacea, you should absolutely minimize the use of foods that promote heavy insulin release, as this only leads to further systemic inflammation. The ideal diet for rosaceans is one that is heavy in vegetables, fish, lean meats and minimizes simple sugars in all their forms.

    J Cosmet Dermatol. 2008 Mar;7(1):8-14.
    Combined effects of silymarin and methylsulfonylmethane in the management of rosacea: clinical and instrumental evaluation.

    OBJECTIVE: This study aims to evaluate a topical treatment based on silymarin/methylsulfonilmethane (S-MSM) to improve erythematous-telangiectactic rosacea. METHODS: Forty-six patients affected by stage I-III rosacea entered this double-blind, placebo-controlled study. Subjects were treated for 1 month. Clinical and instrumental evaluations were done at baseline, after 10 and 20 days, and at the end of the study. Itching, stinging, erythema, and papules were investigated clinically as well as hydration and erythema instrumentally with capacitance and color measurements. RESULTS: A statistically significant improvement was observed in many clinical and instrumental parameters investigated (P < 0.001). In particular, improvement of skin redness, papules, itching, hydration, and skin color occurred. CONCLUSIONS: The combination of silymarin and S-MSM can be useful in managing symptoms and condition of rosacea skin, especially in the rosacea subtype 1 erythemato-telangiectatic phase. The action can be considered multicentric and multiphase because of the direct modulating action on cytokines and angiokines normally involved and up-regulated in the case of such skin condition.

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    Baddies are arginine and arachidonic acid - they happen to be found in nearly every fcking food! But do you mean it's only bad to SUPPLEMENT with the stuff, i.e. get excessive amounts of it?

    From the interwebs:


    Saturated fats are also found in meats, dairy products and eggs. While all of these foods are important source of minerals and vitamins, you don't need the extra saturated fat. These foods also also contain fatty acids called arachidonic acid. While some arachidonic acid is essential for your health, too much arachidonic acid in the diet may make your inflammation worse. Be sure to choose low fat milk and cheese and lean cuts of meat, which will not promote inflammation.
    Fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

    Arginine Dietary sources

    Arginine is a conditionally nonessential amino acid, meaning most of the time it can be manufactured by the human body, and does not need to be obtained directly through the diet. The biosynthetic pathway however does not produce sufficient arginine, and some must still be consumed through diet. Individuals who have poor nutrition or certain physical conditions may be advised to increase their intake of foods containing arginine. Arginine is found in a wide variety of foods, including[4]:

    * Animal sources: dairy products (e.g. cottage cheese, ricotta, milk, yogurt, whey protein drinks), beef, pork (e.g. bacon, ham), gelatin , poultry (e.g. chicken and turkey light meat), wild game (e.g. pheasant, quail), seafood (e.g. halibut, lobster, salmon, shrimp, snails, tuna)
    * Vegetable sources: wheat germ and flour, buckwheat, granola, oatmeal, peanuts, nuts (coconut, pecans, cashews, walnuts, almonds, Brazil nuts, hazelnuts, pinenuts), seeds (pumpkin, sesame, sunflower), chick peas, cooked soybeans

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    Originally Posted by ElMariachi View Post
    The ideal diet for rosaceans is one that is heavy in vegetables, fish, lean meats and minimizes simple sugars in all their forms.
    Incidentally, this would describe the ideal diet for anyone interested in optimal health.

  16. #16
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    This upsets me as it will make bulking more difficult, but it's very good to know. Major roascea sufferer. May have to try TKD after all.

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    All of this is true and once again NO HYPE knows his chit. I saw that MSM study on a rosacea message board and use msm dissolved into distilled water on my face several times a day. Sulfur is like one of most time tested treatments for it . That's all that "Prosacea" stuff is that you can get otc at every grocery store and Walmarts; if you look at the active ingredient it just says "sulfur 10x". You also should try taking fish oil, msm internally, glucosamine sulfate basically supps to tamper down inflammation
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    Originally Posted by Quadzilla99 View Post
    All of this is true and once again NO HYPE knows his chit. I saw that MSM study on a rosacea message board and use msm dissolved into distilled water on my face several times a day. Sulfur is like one of most time tested treatments for it . That's all that "Prosacea" stuff is that you can get otc at every grocery store and Walmarts; if you look at the active ingredient it just says "sulfur 10x". You also should try taking fish oil, msm internally, glucosamine sulfate basically supps to tamper down inflammation
    i have MSM but never took it, really. the point that stuck with me is the need to lower/ minimize the insulin spike. I will try the dissolved msm on my face for sure, right now actually ahahaha. ummm i also use flax/fish oil, and take it internally... but i don't really watch my insulin because i'm an ecto and wanna gain

    body, y u so contradictory and confusing.

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    ... i'm super conflicted now. i've read everywhere that insulin is necessary for muscle gains. but now the study that i was contemplating says insulin is responsible for arachidonic acid, thus rosacea/ inflammation. so i thought that maybe i should try a targeted keto diet to bulk, but that seems so hard and maybe not effective. maybe a better way would be to just lower my GL of carb sources with additional vegetables (though at 70 grams for 5 meals, that's going to be very difficult to do)? heard that was a way to lower the GL. i know i'm over thinking it and have to just DO something, but i don't want to f*ck up my skin in the meantime.

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    Originally Posted by Makeupalley View Post
    ... i'm super conflicted now. i've read everywhere that insulin is necessary for muscle gains. but now the study that i was contemplating says insulin is responsible for arachidonic acid, thus rosacea/ inflammation. so i thought that maybe i should try a targeted keto diet to bulk, but that seems so hard and maybe not effective. maybe a better way would be to just lower my GL of carb sources with additional vegetables (though at 70 grams for 5 meals, that's going to be very difficult to do)? heard that was a way to lower the GL. i know i'm over thinking it and have to just DO something, but i don't want to f*ck up my skin in the meantime.
    Good news: Spiking insulin is worthless for gains. That's like 1990s dogma.

    However, You should also avoid caffeine, ephedrine, nitrates, citrulline, agmatine anything that dramatically increases blood flow if you wanna eliminate rosacea since the redness is from blood vessels and vasodilators are considered triggers. I don't though you'll have to do what I do which is make a compromise I take all that stuff I listed around workout times but I also rub msm water multiple times a day take 3 grams EPA/DHA, 2-3 grams glucosamine sulfate, and 5-10 grams msm internally. Works for me especially the msm water truthfully you could avoid all that stuff take creatine, betaine plus beta alanine and make almost the same gains
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    Arachidonic acid is one thing I will always avoid though. Def stay away from that
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    Rosacea treatment cream - rosaceareliefserum.com/ct/99781
    Having tried quite a few rosacea creams before this i wasnt expecting it to work like the others but i am pleasantly surprised. their price was very good and the cream worked wonders on my face.

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    holy....im now depressed. body, why do you have tobe so sensitive?
    Anyways things could be much worse.

    So to sum it up, if im not mistaken, people with acne/rosacea should:
    1) Avoid grains/carbs
    2) Avoid eggs and omega 6 in general
    3) Eat a lot of fish and omega 3
    4) Avoid all stimulants and nitric oxides


    Anything else I forgot?

    How would one have the energy to workout though? No carbs/sugar and no caffeine sounds really brutal. how would one replenish the glycogen after the workout?

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    Originally Posted by lefteris7 View Post
    holy....im now depressed. body, why do you have tobe so sensitive?
    Anyways things could be much worse.

    So to sum it up, if im not mistaken, people with acne/rosacea should:
    1) Avoid grains/carbs
    2) Avoid eggs and omega 6 in general
    3) Eat a lot of fish and omega 3
    4) Avoid all stimulants and nitric oxides


    Anything else I forgot?

    How would one have the energy to workout though? No carbs/sugar and no caffeine sounds really brutal. how would one replenish the glycogen after the workout?
    You can make compromises like I do depends how bad your case is and what your triggers are. But the condition is progressive and each outbreak makes it worse its like the blood vessels get more and more damaged or whatever. The carbs thing is fine just not high amounts of sugar and eating your carbs with balanced meals with a decent amount of fat in them slows form insulin release
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    There's a short term antibiotic called rifaximin that kills it off for a lot of people for long periods of time too with just a ten day treatment. You can google that and find it at many of these Canadian pharmacies without a script
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    Here it is nine months of great results for a large group of the people who tried it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18456568/
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    Originally Posted by Quadzilla99 View Post
    Here it is nine months of great results for a large group of the people who tried it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18456568/

    Ivermectin is another one that has gotten a lot of attention recently. It's an anti-parasitic drug, most commonly dogs take it in the form of HeartGard.



    A couple of studies have shown that a 1% ivermectin cream was very effective in controlling rosacea symptoms and reducing inflammatory lesions.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24595578
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