Squats and Dealifts only?

[PiperBill]

It's been 18 months since I had an rc tear right shoulder. I have been doing Wendlers 531 for 9 months now as well as some the BBB work sporadically during that time.

I notice my right shoulder has gone from a slight ignorable pain to an almost constant moderate pain the last 2 months. It's not just the rc tear but also wear on the shoulder joint after a long life of physical work.

Surgery is a very last option for me but my PT has advised that I lay off any lifts that irritate the shoulder for 3 months and then make a final decision re surgery.

That was a bit of a blow but I might be abe to actually turn it into something positive.

I am toying with the idea of doing only squats and deadlifts for 12 weeks. These 2 lifts are lagging anyway so it might be a great oppertunity to work on them and get some solid numbers up (relative to where I am now).


I'm thinking:

Week 1
Mon. Squats
Wed. Deads
Fri. Squats

Week 2
Mon. Deads
Wed. Squats
Fri. Deads

Accessory work ad hoc with the focus being only on the 2 big lifts

My questions:

What would be the best way to program this? Follow 531 one day and BBB the next, or maybe 531 and BBB on both days? Variations on the lifts?

What changes in body structure can I expect from running this? I need to lose some fat so I won't be eating in a surplus but staying just below maintenance.

Any insight would be much appreciated :-)

[boathead]

i guess it depends on where you at with the weights you are lifting.

for me, at my hight end, i was repping 315 on squats. no way in the world could i do that 2 or 3 times a week. somehting had to give. Similarly, i was repping 365 on deads. but take me where i am presently, having come back from an extended break. i'm squatting 155, and dl'ing 165. this, while subjectively hard for me, simply is not taxing on the CNS.

i'm thinking throw 531 out the window for the time being, and certainly throw BBB out the window. no way, if you are lifting anything meaningful will BBB 2x per week be doable.

personally, i'd go with Texas Method or Madcow weekly programming. you sort of get the spectrum of heavy, light, medium on the squats, and my experience for me was that i'd always crap out at about week 9.....so maybe it would align a bit with your upper body break.

[PiperBill]

I'll look at the Mad Cow and Texas method. I am not lifing any great weights. At 135 LBM I am lifting 240 lbs for squat and 270 lbs deads. I am up 70 lbs on deads and 110 lbs on squats since I started in Feb this year. Had a lot of problems with squats when I started and it took a long time to find form on that lift.

I train with my son. He trains exclusively by intuition. Alternating between heavy/low reps and lighter/ higher reps as he feels like it. Works for him but I need some sort of program to follow.

[mirroroferised]

http://www.smolovjr.com/smolov-squat-routine/

Enjoy

[johnmackay]

I will warn you that heavy straight bar squatting can cause as much havoc to an injured RC as pressing for certain people (like me)...luckily I work out in a gym with a bunch of squat bar options (cambered, ox-bow, safety...). I tend to hit a straight bar maybe once every 3 weeks...and that is usually the week my shoulders feel the worse.

[Flounderbout]

http://www.smolovjr.com/smolov-squat-routine/

Enjoy

I was going to suggest this too. Although Smolov is not really aimed at lifters of this level (this is not a criticism btw - I did it as per the below), I think there are benefits to be had from running it as an intermediate squatter as long as your form is not absolutely horrible. Your form will get a whole lot better during it, that's for sure! I did it a while back, and my squat was very average indeed when I started out.

I first did Smolov because of exactly this reason - I fecked my shoulder benching (and not doing enough rear shoulder work). Eventually I realised I couldn't keep benching and hurting it, so I did nothing but squat for 14 weeks, and my shoulder healed up well.

If you can be bothered, I journalled the whole thing - it started here http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1255775581 - I used a 120kg (264lb) starting 1RM.

And, since there are far too many tedious squat videos and whining to trawl through, it ended here http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1280353491 @ 165kg (364lb).

You will discover there is nothing easy about squatting 4 times per week (and yes, in the latter stages virtually everything triples at near max weight - I had sessions with multiple triples between 140kg and 150kg). But you will get better at squatting, you will get a lot bigger and stronger (you will eat like you won't believe), and you will enjoy it (OK, that one was a lie).

You want want to do any deadlifts at all if you run it. In fact you won't want to do much except eat and sleep. Oh, and as for changes in body composition, I got a lot heavier, and a lot more defined around the midsection. I was running a surplus. You have to.

I've just started it again. This time just for fun, and with other lifts as well.

[drudixon]

I will warn you that heavy straight bar squatting can cause as much havoc to an injured RC as pressing for certain people (like me)...luckily I work out in a gym with a bunch of squat bar options (cambered, ox-bow, safety...). I tend to hit a straight bar maybe once every 3 weeks...and that is usually the week my shoulders feel the worse.

This. Only high squats for you now. Imo you should load up on pulling movements. Once I got my pulls stronger than my pushes my rc issues improved.

[EjnarKolinkar]

If I wanted to squat and do deads and eat in a deficit Id just run madcow.

Texas Method or Smolov I thijk you have to be eating in a steady reasonable daily surplus.

Hope the shoulder heals up one way or another bill.

[gbk56]

...

I'm thinking:

Week 1
Mon. Squats
Wed. Deads
Fri. Squats

Week 2
Mon. Deads
Wed. Squats
Fri. Deads

Accessory work ad hoc with the focus being only on the 2 big lifts

My questions:

What would be the best way to program this? Follow 531 one day and BBB the next, or maybe 531 and BBB on both days? Variations on the lifts?

...

I need to lose some fat so I won't be eating in a surplus but staying just below maintenance.

Any insight would be much appreciated :-)

Since you won't be eating at a surplus, recovery would probably be a major issue. I would alternate between 531 and BBB unless you can recover ok from 531 three times a week. If you can recover from 531 three times a week, go for it. An alternative could be 531 on Monday and Wednesday and BBB on Friday.

[PiperBill]

Since you won't be eating at a surplus, recovery would probably be a major issue. I would alternate between 531 and BBB unless you can recover ok from 531 three times a week. If you can recover from 531 three times a week, go for it. An alternative could be 531 on Monday and Wednesday and BBB on Friday.

I might have to eat in a slight surplus for this. In fact that will be the first time I have run 531 on a surplus. I did it for 4 months this year on a big cut of around 1850/day cals and then treid to find maintenance up till now. I am leaning towards sticking to 531 just as it's simple and I know it works.

Could go like this.

Week 1
Monday. Squat 531
Wed. Deadlift 531
Friday Squat BBB or 5x8

Week 2
Mon. Deadlift 531
Wed. Squat 531
Fri. BBB deadlift

Alternatively I could run a 5x5 template instead of 531 and increase the weight gradually. Backing off if recovery becomes an issue.

I'm pretty sure I will run this but I must be for around 12 weeks to see any results. That brings me to winter vacation at the end of Feb. Perfect timing! :-)

[Garage Rat]

Bill also keep in mind that squats and or deadlifts could be irritating your shoulder especially squats.
I sometime squat with a yoke/saftey squat bar to ease up on my shoulders.
Just an observation for you.

[beenayear]

Do some shoulder mobility work before squats; it'll help loosen it up.

[Fishman15]

This. Only high squats for you now. Imo you should load up on pulling movements. Once I got my pulls stronger than my pushes my rc issues improved.

This^ Perfect time to get your rear delts stronger which will help you with your shoulder issues in the future. Was the best medicine for me...