*Information on Beta Alanine Ethyl Ester HCl

**ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION** · 11-20-2007, 06:44 AM

Written By Dr. Roger Harris

Beta Alanine Ethyl Ester HCl
19 Nov 2007

Correctly named = Ethyl 3-aminopropionate hydrochloride

WARNING
We have seen a few alarming cases of beta alanine ethyl ester HCl advertised for sale on the internet. While it may seem that this is a new form of beta alanine, we must draw your attention to the safety data of this unnatural product.

Sigma Aldrich, one of the major global pharmaceutical and chemical suppliers, states on its own website Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), the following:
Quote:
1 - Toxicological Information
SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF EXPOSURE
To the best of our knowledge, the chemical, physical, and toxicological properties have not been thoroughly investigated.

MSDS is the international data standard covering a wide range of safety information intended for research and industrial handling of products and complies with international treaties. As a major global pharmaceutical company Sigma Aldrich really are a company that have access to current safety information.

Here's the link if you may want to go to and check for yourself.

Or alternatively you can go through the WWW to their site and do a search for the chemical and then click to see the MSDS page. The company is Sigma Aldrich.

Why you should be concerned.
This is not a natural chemical. It is not beta alanine. Whilst the name retains the words beta alanine it is not the same - it is chemically changed and the correct full name is ethyl 3-aminopropionate hydrochloride.

Without genuine clinical safety trials, which can take decades, to investigate safety for humans and possible long term side effects, it is not possible to say that this ethyl ester derivative is safe.

Technical stuff
Part of the molecule has been covalently esterified (in this case to add on a -CH2CH3 or ethyl side chain). Esterifcation is a reaction between a carboxylic acid group -COOH with an alcohol group. Covalent bonds are chemically strong and do not simply dissolve or break down in the body unless they come under chemical attack or the body has a specific enzyme to perform this function.

HCl
The term hydrochloride is not part of the chemical structure. It is not covalently bonded to the rest of the molecule and only forms a weak 'ionic' association. The HCl is released as soon as it is mixed with water or when it enters the stomach for example, in contrast to the ethyl ester.

Chemically changing a molecule and toxicity.
Curiously there are two serious problems that are always overlooked (or deliberately avoided) when those sorts of products are marketed.
1. To be effective the ethyl side chain must be removed because it alters the chemical properties and prevents the specific enzymes from utilising the so-called beta alanine 'part' of the molecule.
2. The new ester chemical might be so close in shape to the original that not only does it find the necessary enzyme but it may also bind to it blocking the reaction site. If this happens permanently this is known as Non-competitive inhibition and this can be toxic.

Urban myth
The belief is that by altering the structure the chemical becomes more easily absorbed - however beta alanine (the real thing already is easily absorbed).

A similar myth has been created for creatine ethyl ester. Again, to be effective the ethyl ester side chain MUST be removed - otherwise you don't have creatine you actually have (?-Methylguanido)-acetyl-ethyl ester. This could be removed by a blood plasma borne esterase enzyme - totally defeating the claimed benefits in the first place. Because as soon as the side chain is chemically removed all you have once again is creatine that still has to be transported into muscle cells via the transporter- Didn't they tell you this bit? It would be interesting to see the results of a kinetics study of the effect of creatine ethyl ester upon Creatine Kinase (CK). CK is the body's only enzyme that can utilise creatine by adding a phosphate group - ready then to be used to regenerate ATP. CK is found in 3 isoforms: muscle, blood and brain. Something to risk toxic effects with? We think not.

**INGENIUM** · 11-20-2007, 06:48 AM

nice

the funniest thing to me is that beta alanine is already HIGHLY orally bioavailable...

yet people are still fooled by these marketing gimmicks...

such is the state of the industry

**BuckeyeMuscle** · 11-20-2007, 07:00 AM

Anyone know of all the products that contain BAEE? I know NO Shotgun does off the top of my head, but thats about it.

**INGENIUM** · 11-20-2007, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by BuckeyeMuscle

Anyone know of all the products that contain BAEE? I know NO Shotgun does off the top of my head, but thats about it.

its in muscletech nanovapor...and NXlabs Betasine thats all i see

add nutrabolics anabolic trigger to the list

**dtrain13** · 11-20-2007, 07:16 AM

Lol...

**DinoT1985** · 11-20-2007, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by INGENIUM

its in muscletech nanovapor...and NXlabs Betasine thats all i see

add nutrabolics anabolic trigger to the list

Found in CEX Caps as well. Besides them, I don't know of any others.

More on it
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=962126

**CHUCK DIESEL** · 11-20-2007, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by INGENIUM

nice

the funniest thing to me is that beta alanine is already HIGHLY orally bioavailable...

yet people are still fooled by these marketing gimmicks...

such is the state of the industry

thats what I was thinking, and its cheap. Why make a BA EEHCL whatever.

**Sleepstream** · 11-20-2007, 07:29 AM

Also in VPX Power Pump 7 and NO-Shotgun

**ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION** · 11-20-2007, 07:52 AM

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...-alanine+ethyl

^^
Some more information by Dr.Tallon

Just for the lay person, in case you don't know. The writer of the article is Dr.Harris(AKA the father of creatine) He is not only the pioneer of creatine research but beta-alanine performance research as well. His words on these topics, carry as much if not more weight than any researcher in the world.

Dr.Tallon is another highly regarded beta-alanine researcher, who actually has his pHD in carnosine metabolism.

**eldawg** · 11-20-2007, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by BuckeyeMuscle

Anyone know of all the products that contain BAEE? I know NO Shotgun does off the top of my head, but thats about it.

**** Primed Ultra - http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/****/ultra.html

Carnosine DiEthyl Ester sound like another way to say BAEE?

**FORCE RECON** · 11-20-2007, 08:07 AM

good job bringing this to light boss

**History in Effect** · 11-20-2007, 08:24 AM

yeah, the tingles of nano were intense as can be

**Zachattack43** · 11-20-2007, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by BenTav05

yeah, the tingles of nano were intense as can be

I cant imagine the dose being high enough to feel such unless its your first BA supplement

**hockey4life28** · 11-20-2007, 09:08 AM

would the same be true for say arginine ethyl ester?

**rub81** · 11-20-2007, 10:17 AM

Bump

**Beejis60** · 11-20-2007, 10:22 AM

Good call on referrencing Sigma; they're probably the biggest chemical supplier in the world and that's where we get almost all of our chemicals and glassware. I make my students go to Sigma to look up info on their chemicals that they will be using for that following week in lab.

**Zachattack43** · 11-20-2007, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Beejis60

Good call on referrencing Sigma; they're probably the biggest chemical supplier in the world and that's where we get almost all of our chemicals and glassware. I make my students go to Sigma to look up info on their chemicals that they will be using for that following week in lab.

oh, you teaching labs while working on masters?

**Beejis60** · 11-20-2007, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by zachattack43

oh, you teaching labs while working on masters?

Ph.D. now, son

**Zachattack43** · 11-20-2007, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Beejis60

Ph.D. now, son

oooooooooooooo

**ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION** · 11-20-2007, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by INGENIUM

nice

the funniest thing to me is that beta alanine is already HIGHLY orally bioavailable...

yet people are still fooled by these marketing gimmicks...

such is the state of the industry

Yes it is and its uptake can be further increased with carbs and pre/postWO timing

**ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION** · 11-20-2007, 01:58 PM

**rudyky08** · 11-20-2007, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by BenTav05

yeah, the tingles of nano were intense as can be

Probably due to the xanithol nicotinate.

Putting ethyl esters on anything that has good bioavailability (all amino acids) is a total waste and I feel makes them much less effective and potentially dangerous. If you're desperate for a marketing niche bond the aminos to organic salts (malate, orotate, AKG, etc). At least those are natural, will dissociate into the amino and the organic salt and provide a benefit rather than a hindrance.

**deserusan** · 11-20-2007, 03:29 PM

This is some good information Sebastian. Even funnier is that beta alanine also has a very HIGH solubility as well. I can see adding an ethyl ester to certain aminos which are somewhat hydrophobic but doing such to beta alanine is pure marketing.

**leonidas300** · 11-20-2007, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by zachattack43

I cant imagine the dose being high enough to feel such unless its your first BA supplement

Zach, I take beta-alanine constantly and the small dose in VPX NO Shotgun makes me tingle more than taking 3 grams of regular beta-alanine. I have no idea as to the efficacy or the desirability of a BAEE, but I agree on the increase in the tingles from the Ethyl ester version.

**leonidas300** · 11-20-2007, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Beejis60

Ph.D. now, son

You are the smartest bouncer on the planet!!!!

**Beejis60** · 11-20-2007, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by leonidas300

You are the smartest bouncer on the planet!!!!

Naw, des and PA are

I'm just a mere spectator right now.

**deserusan** · 11-20-2007, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Beejis60

Naw, des and PA are

I'm just a mere spectator right now.

I was a damn good bouncer but gave it up when someone threw a pint glass at my head and missed by three inches. I admit it was fun cracking heads and tossing people, literally. However, in the end it's dangerous work. I guess the supplement industry is too!

**Cable Curling CincoUno** · 11-20-2007, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by INGENIUM

its in muscletech nanovapor...and NXlabs Betasine thats all i see

add nutrabolics anabolic trigger to the list

is it just me or does it seem like a lot of nutrabolics products are based solely on as many ingredients as possible being -ethyl esters?

**cakedonkey** · 11-20-2007, 04:54 PM

Dr. Mark Tallon also agrees: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=962126.

**ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION** · 11-20-2007, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by deserusan

This is some good information Sebastian. Even funnier is that beta alanine also has a very HIGH solubility as well. I can see adding an ethyl ester to certain aminos which are somewhat hydrophobic but doing such to beta alanine is pure marketing.

Thank you. As much as forum drama bores me, I felt I had to post this information regardless, as Dr.Harris states potential unknown health issues.

Originally Posted by leonidas300

You are the smartest bouncer on the planet!!!!

Beejis FTW!!

Originally Posted by cakedonkey

Dr. Mark Tallon also agrees: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=962126.

I don't know any beta-alanine researcher who likes baee

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