help for my weak back..weird routine

[daquietman]

ok i am 17 years old around 198lbs. my split is
tues - back, shoulders,trapz
thurs - chest, legs
sat - bis,tris,forearms,calves
sun - cardio

anyway my problem is with my back. i cannot do more than one chin up on the chin up bar i have at home in my doorway. i guess my back must be kinda weak or i weight too heavy or just the fact that i havent done chinups before because i am very new to bbing.
anyway i heard to increase my reps on the chin ups i should do the negative chin ups. if one rep counts for the downward (negative) movement of the chin up exercsie, how many reps should i do? should i do them until i reach failure? and also how many sets shall i do for negative chinups?
my back routine is :

3 sets chin ups
4 sets bent over bar bell rows
3 sets deadlifts
then i do traps and shoulder

however because i am doing the negative chin up movement which invloves climbing on a chair, letting my self down under control, and then climbing back on and repeaing, wont 3 sets of, say 10 reps, take very long (I LIKE TO KEEP MY WORKOUTS UNDER 1 HOUR). i sooo badly want to do reps on chinups because it looks so cool and also i want good back development, especially in the lats i need to thicken them. i want to do at least 6 reps on my own for chin ups by mid JAnueary (is that an obtainable goal?). thanks very much for reading and i hope you can answer all my questions. it would mean so much to me if you could help.

p.s.> how long should i keep my self under the negative portion stress (about 2-3 secs??).

[RDX]

you could do lat pulldowns

[Fresch]

Lat pulldowns will not do!!

Do you have access to an assisted chin/dip machine??

[daquietman]

no i am afraid i will never have access to a assisted chin up machine, sorry. what can i do?? was any1 in the same situation as me???

[seanconnery]

Work on your biceps. 6 months ago I couldn't do a single one. Today I did 4 sets of 8, slowly.

[Ahnuld Fan]

Daquietman, get someone to help you. Have a friend grab you're ankles and let him assist you until you can build up enough strength to do it on your own.

[Fresch]

Getting a friend to assist you is good.

If you can only arrange to work on your chin-up bar by yourself, then you will have to make do with the negative chin ups. Take about 4 seconds to lower yourself down.

It will take time, but you may find that 3 x 10 is a big ask anyway!

[Tom]

Originally posted by Fresch
Lat pulldowns will not do!!

Do you have access to an assisted chin/dip machine??

Why are chins so much better than lat pull downs?

[Tony]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

[Tony]

NO NO NO NO NO NO

Forget all that except for finding a friend to hold your ankles

trust me I have probably one of the best backs on this board. When I started I could do 4 pull-ups now I can do 32. Use that same chair you climb on and put your feet on it and push w/your feet and help yourself up to the bar. That is unless you have a friend or family member that can hold your feet.

[Bodybuilder]

Originally posted by Tony
NO NO NO NO NO NO

Forget all that except for finding a friend to hold your ankles

trust me I have probably one of the best backs on this board. When I started I could do 4 pull-ups now I can do 32. Use that same chair you climb on and put your feet on it and push w/your feet and help yourself up to the bar. That is unless you have a friend or family member that can hold your feet.

how could you possibly even say that you probably have one of the best backs.....lol you know everyone here and have seen everyone......??lol

[keith]

Well, a few months ago i could only do 5 chinups before i failed. I started just doing 1 set of 5 for several workouts, always reaching failure... no progress... so i switched to 3 sets of 3, and did 3x3 for a few weeks, at which point my chins increased to 9. so, my advice to you is, do 4 sets of 2, 3 of 3, whatever you can do, do it, and your chins will increase.

[buff666]

I am 17 also and have very strong back....but this wasnt always the case...stop training back and shoulder together...if u do back first u will loose strength and intensity for shoulders and vise versa. this is what i do

front lat pulldowns 4sets 12reps 10reps 8reps 4 reps
narrow grip pulldowns 4sets 12 10 8 4
bent over barbell rows 4 sets 12 10 8 4
deadlifts 4 sets 5reps 5 reps 5reps 5reps(start light and end heavy)
T-bar rows 4sets 12 10 8 4
bent over dumbell rows 4 sets 12 10 8 4
This works hardcore i am writing this 2 days after i worked back and i can bearly move it hurts so much..

[Dorian]

to daquiet man, I would do chins asissted. Which is to say, boost your self up and then lower with a count of 6. do this for about 4 weeks. soon you will find your self getting stronger and able to do this on your own.( during the boost up try to use the arms as much as possible but you can use your legs off a chair or something.)

[damnJeff]

I'd recommend doing back on its own day. I'm sorry you don't have access to an assisted chin up machine. I can't do wide grip chins by myself and those really help. I would recommend the lat pulldown and on the last rep you should squeeze your back and stand up slowly not releasing any tension on it.

My back routine is this:

3 sets barbell rows
3 sets wide grip assisted chins
3 sets low row
3 sets deadlift

OR

3 sets tbar machine rows (where you lean over and grab the handles)
2 sets wide grip assisted chins
2 sets lat pulldowns
3 sets low row
3 sets deadlift
1 set wide grip assisted chins

[daquietman]

cool, thanks guys you are all very helpful to me indeed. i just wanted to ask another question. when,say, i start of my back workout with negative chins, and i do,say, 3 sets of 6 reps on hem (negative failure reps), i think my back is REALLY exhausted (this is what happened in my last workout). even after a break of 4 minutes or so, i could only lift 60-70% on the barbell bent over rows sets of what i could do if i didnt do those sets of taxing chins (like i used to). basically my whole workout is suffering because of the chins, i cant lift as much weight on the other movements (espcially the barbell bent over movement which i love to do) because of my sets of chins.
i thought of putting chins at the end of my back workout but that would mean i will be weak on the chins and i won't progress on them much because i won't even be able to do one negative after lifting heavy on deadlifts and rows!! can you please help me, i think i am worrying my self sick here thank you guys

[daquietman]

any answers? its ok, i'll listen to ANY suggestions please. thanks

[Dorian]

instead of worrying about anything do this, try it and see if it works. If it doesn't then switch it up. if it does then you found what works for you.I personally do chins first