I know people say that when you damage muscle in a workout, it's the healing process that causes your muscles to grow, but what if your getting stonger by being able to lift more, but your not getting sore after workouts. Will you still gain muscle?
07-07-2005, 07:08 AM #1
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Do you have to be sore the next day to gain muscle?
07-07-2005, 07:24 AM #2
no..you dont have to be sore
after working my bi's, they are rarley ever sore and i have seen vast improvement in the past year"Why do I have to be a functional training guy? Or an Olympic lifting guy or a Westside guy? Am I a HIT guy? No. Does that mean I'm a low intensity guy then? Absolutely not. I'm all of those and I'm none of those. I'm a results guy. I guess my philosophy is 'Results by Design, Not by Coincidence.' Get the best results in the least amount of time. The faster I can get results, the more I get paid."
Alwyn Cosgrove, T-Nation
07-07-2005, 07:25 AM #3
07-07-2005, 07:26 AM #4
07-07-2005, 10:40 AM #5Originally Posted by 117len
some factors that help not getting extremely sore:
(1) sleep ... if u can get 9 plus hours of sleep, atleast 8 though
(2) diet ... protein rich, lots of vitamin c, glutamine works well too
(3) stretching... after workout
(4) showers... it works well sometimes after i workout***CUTTING has being put on hold*******
July 25th, 2005
Bench press: 195x1
Incline bench: 165x1
Military Press: 130x1
Bent over row: 160x1
Barbell Shrugs: 175x11 newest pr
07-07-2005, 11:36 AM #6
07-07-2005, 11:54 AM #7
07-07-2005, 11:54 AM #8Originally Posted by 117len
Said another way, you can have a good workout without getting sore, but if you get sore it pretty much guarantees a good workout.
07-07-2005, 12:11 PM #9
07-07-2005, 12:12 PM #10
07-07-2005, 12:17 PM #11Originally Posted by DavetheDog
I would speculate, since one can just go through the motions, that in the workout that you were more sore, you actually hit the muscle harder.
07-07-2005, 12:26 PM #12Originally Posted by Defiant1
I've been sore from workouts where I wished I'd stayed in bed. Was a crap workout. Still sore."Something witty and humorous"
07-07-2005, 12:29 PM #13Originally Posted by DavetheDogTraining Theory, Info, and Starr/Pendlay 5x5 Info:
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07-07-2005, 12:45 PM #14
Hi Madcow - we're a bit at cross purposes I was using the above to try to put across that soreness is irrelevant if you are making good progress.
I fully understand your point about lack of conditioning; the only time I really suffer from DOMS is when I'm starting back after a layoff. Other than that, it's not a problem (I train with highish frequency, low volume and don't ever go to failure anyway)."Something witty and humorous"
07-07-2005, 12:51 PM #15Originally Posted by Madcow2
Even in your example, what caused the soreness? An imposed demand. What does the SAID principle say will happen after that workout?
The fact of the matter is, no one knows what causes soreness with certainty. But a sore muscle given a changed single variable in a workout will mean adaptation.
PS: I read your link, it does not say that soreness is not correlated with growth. As a matter of fact, it says specifically re the correlation:
this is somewhat true... if you run an r squared linear regression comparing protein breakdown to protein synthesis post workout you find a 0.88 correlation which would be considered very strong. However you also need to look at the end result. For example... my legs grow very slowly but they are always the most sore after a workout... my arms never get sore and they grow the fastest. Is there some relationship between DOMS and hypertophy? I'm sure... is it direct and 100% accurate... certainly not.
Then Bryan Haycock straddles the fence.
Interesting read though.
Understand, I am not saying that soreness is a necessity for growth, just that when you are sore it indicates some growth (adaptation) will take place. . Why wouldn't it?
Last edited by Defiant1; 07-07-2005 at 01:24 PM.
07-07-2005, 01:10 PM #16
I've read Haycock's soreness stuff before and from what I gather he doesn't have a clear opinion on it. He wrote something to the effect of keeping himself in a moderate state of soreness at all times or some such too just because he 'felt' that this is when he grew best (I forget where I saw it but I believe we discussed it on FIron the same forum as the other link). He's generally pretty knowledgable but I'm not relying too heavily on his opinion in this instance.
When I say correlation, I'm talking about in a trained population. Obviously you need to rule out the people who aren't doing any training or are deconditioned. Actually my hypothesis is that you'd find a negative correlation without decent controls simply because the people not routinely getting sore likely have supperior knowledge or coaching leading to better programming and thus less frequency of DOMS. If you controlled for training and quality of programing (obviously we are in fantasyland now which is why most research is done with untrained individuals and not terribly relevant) I'd venture you'd find something fairly low although it might well be positive. Then again you run into periodized program where the specific incidence of DOMS would be low but adaptation high in lower workload periods so that would screw it again. Suffice to say though, it's not an accurate indicator in any way, shape or form.
EDIT - I think you edited the above while I was responding. Either way I think we are on the same page.Training Theory, Info, and Starr/Pendlay 5x5 Info:
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07-07-2005, 01:26 PM #17
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07-08-2005, 10:05 AM #21