You're right. I don't know what the **** I'm talking about. I MUST HAVE MADE UP ALL THOSE NASTY SIDE EFFECTS , RIGHT? I'm not in the practice of looking at other bb'ers nuts, so I can't prove they are shrunken. They shave all their body hair, so unless I sneak into their house and check their shower drains, I'll never be able to prove that either. "Bacne" is a proven, documented side effect of steroid-you call it "abuse", I'll call "use". I'm no cop or lawyer, but ANY use of a banned substance is legally considered abuse. As for bitch tits ,look at -just to name one- Johnnie Jackson. Probably, a great guy, strong as hell , dedicated and hard working. But even Flex magazine singled him out as having bitch tits.
I'm proud to not "know what I'm talking about" when it comes to homemade steroids, thanks anyways. I sincerely hope that was not your best comeback.
I must be an idiot to do things like, obey the law and not pump my body full of substances that may be harmful-oh wait- I forgot your Harvard medical trained ass says they're not harmful. What's that? You didn't go to Harvard medical? OHHHHH ---That makes you as trustworthy as the idiot pushing that stuff in locker rooms and the back rooms of "supplement" stores. I'm not some naive bible thumper ,neither was I born yesterday. I know how your "scene" works. As coincidence would have it, a guy at my gym has had a problem with homemade d-bol within the last month .
The bottom line is , you and I disagree. You'll never change my mind and vice -versa. If you want, we can continue this thread till we're old and grey. Here's the thing, as far as I know, gear is illegal in North America, no matter how "simple" and "safe" you claim it is to home make it. I'm sure there is a crack dealer somewhere reassuring his clients that his drug was "simple and safe", and "made with care"...MADE WITH CARE??????? WTF????
The government could make alot of money by legalizing steroids---which will never happen because they are considered dangerous. Get it? They're illegal for a reason. They used to be legal, and then were banned- hey they still are legal in Mexico, if you'd like to move there ...
In case you need more insight or reasons as to why I have no tolerance for --I'll say it again--ILLEGAL steroids , here are a couple.
1-KIDS READ THESE POSTS. I've lost track of the number of 16 yr olds in my teeny little gym who have used steroids, and most of them have had some of the visible side effects I have mentioned. What message are you sending them? I feel, as misguided as you may feel it is, that even one child, person- whatever- having problems linked to steroid use is one too much.
2-I HAVE A SON. Take a look at my profile pic, I'm not far off of you. I can count on one hand the amount of supplements I have bought in my life. Before you go on about genetics, it took me years to figure out how to put on nearly 65 lbs of natural muscle. I did it the hard way , and loved every minute of it. So much so , that I hope to pass that love on to my son. I CRINGE at the thought of him having to mingle with some one like you in the gym. Luckily, I will impart him with the knowledge and self confidence to know better...
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Thread: IFBB "Pro" a bold faced liar
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10-26-2007, 06:59 PM #61
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Last edited by hiramabiff100; 10-26-2007 at 07:41 PM.
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10-26-2007, 10:36 PM #62
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10-26-2007, 11:18 PM #63
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10-26-2007, 11:21 PM #64
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Do you REALLY think that because the "government" says something is legal or illegal that it has ANYTHING to do with it's negative side effects? You need to take off the rose colored glasses. I also suggest that you educate yourself on topics like this in the future because your parroting of the media just shows your lack of thought.--
--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche
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10-27-2007, 06:37 PM #65
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The government does err often, on that at least, we can agree. The problem is they most often err in the opposite direction. They allow the FDA to legalize medication which have led to thousands of heart attacks and other medical issues. They legalize tobacco even though they know it has severe long term effects. I can not for the life of me figure out why they would demonize steroids, if THEY were safe. Perhaps you could explain to me the reason they are "conspiring" to keep these "perfectly safe" substances from the masses? I mean considering their previous track record...
I have been working out long enough to have seen several people experience problems with steroids first hand. Simply because I have not tried them myself does not mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I've never shoved my hand in a fire , or chopped off one of my fingers with a butcher knife, but I KNOW these are bad things, because I have been told so. Is that a result of media misinformation or brainwashing?(The way things are going, I can only imagine that would be your next argument). I do not "parrot" the media, because frankly, I have NEVER seen one story on T.V regarding steroids. I know most of the major news shows have had some, but I have never personally seen one.
To the gentleman who inquired about my personal habits, I do not smoke and I had 2 scotches at New Year's, the end. 2 drinks does not lead to hardened arteries and enlarged organs, which 1 cycle of steroids can cause.
You think I see through rose colored glasses? At least I can see my keyboard, albeit with a rosy hue. I wonder how you can see the keyboard with your head so deeply entrenched in the proverbial sand.
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10-27-2007, 06:41 PM #66
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10-27-2007, 06:45 PM #67
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10-27-2007, 08:30 PM #68
Read the EDIT on my post. It was just to prove a point that just because the government legalizes certain things doesn't mean they do less harm than something illegal.
Please explain to me how ONE cycle of normal length causes PERMANENT hardened arteries and enlarged organs. Oh and don't dumb it down for me since you obviously know so much. I'm pretty sure I can handle the details. And I would BEG to differ that those 2 scotches didn't cause some MINOR NONPERMANENT liver damage (I promise you if you would have taken your liver enzymes the next day, they would have been elevated from the drinking the night before).
I'm not disagreeing that steroids can cause significant harm. I just don't like the argument that they're illegal so they must be bad when alcohol and cigarettes are legal.
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10-28-2007, 08:00 AM #69
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I actually did see that article. There's another article I read years ago (right after Flex's transplant)in the Montreal Gazette, where he stated roids had more than a little to do with his health problems. Unfortunately, I did not have the foresight to clip these articles ,scan them and save them in my hard drive for future discussions in these forums. Sadly bro, without them, you and I will come just short of being accused of making this stuff up it seems....
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10-28-2007, 04:27 PM #70
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Sarcastic self-depreciating comments don't lend any credibility to your arguments.
You clearly made statements you can't prove, you say they grow hair on their foreheads, then you say they probably shave that hair off, and that is why it doesn't show up. Well, you just made TWO statements you can't prove. Are they plausible? Probably, but the bottom line is you still can't prove either of YOUR statements.
Don't hide behind the terms legal or illegal when trying to define what use and abuse are, many medications are prescribed "off-label" like asiprin for high blood pressure, would you then call that abuse? How about Marijuana? Its illegal in the states but legal in Amsterdam, are you saying abuse is a matter is simple matter of crossing a border? No, no one would define it that way, you're logic is flawed and poorly thought out.
Again you're sterotyping me, what makes you think I "push" steroids in "locker" rooms? Do you know me? No, you don't. Your own government came out with a study saying the average steroid user is actually upper-middle class white collar men. What does that tell you?
Here's the thing, as far as I know, gear is illegal in North America, no matter how "simple" and "safe" you claim it is to home make it. I'm sure there is a crack dealer somewhere reassuring his clients that his drug was "simple and safe", and "made with care"...MADE WITH CARE??????? WTF????
Now you're comparing me to a crack dealer? You have no founding to make that assertion, when you stop pulling arbitrary facts out of your rear to save yourself, then maybe people will stop and listen. You're language is pretty rough too, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
I'm not some naive bible thumper ,neither was I born yesterday. I know how your "scene" works. As coincidence would have it, a guy at my gym has had a problem with homemade d-bol within the last month .
The government could make alot of money by legalizing steroids---which will never happen because they are considered dangerous. Get it? They're illegal for a reason. They used to be legal, and then were banned- hey they still are legal in Mexico, if you'd like to move there ...
Steroids are also legal in many Eastern European countries, the UK, Asian countries and as you said Mexico. Why the differing opinions on legality? Ask yourself that.
In case you need more insight or reasons as to why I have no tolerance for --I'll say it again--ILLEGAL steroids , here are a couple.
1-KIDS READ THESE POSTS. I've lost track of the number of 16 yr olds in my teeny little gym who have used steroids, and most of them have had some of the visible side effects I have mentioned. What message are you sending them? I feel, as misguided as you may feel it is, that even one child, person- whatever- having problems linked to steroid use is one too much.
Someone like me? You don't even know me. Of the two of us the one with the foul mouth is YOU, the one with a raving tone like someone with roid rage ironically again, is YOU. Think about that.
What I do to my body is MY choice, you get that? There is no law in Canada about possession of steroids. What I'm doing is LEGAL up here, so you lost that front as well.
You need to get off your high horse and stop hiding behind "the kids" and your son, talk to me man to man, fact to fact. Then maybe you'll start sounding like some one credible.Last edited by chan_ho_nam; 10-28-2007 at 04:30 PM.
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10-29-2007, 12:32 PM #71
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10-29-2007, 12:45 PM #72
?I'm not in the practice of looking at other bb'ers nuts?
Big deal small testicles? Whoopty frickin doo. So I am going to assume your talking about the possibility of infertility, as you weren?t very clear in your incomprehensible mutterings. Infertility caused by AAS can be REVERSED through clomid, HCG, and HMG treatment. Infertility caused by anabolics is EXTREMELY rare.
?Bacne" is a proven?
Once again? Big deal? Some acne? Who really cares?
?As for bitch tits ,look at -just to name one- Johnnie Jackson?
Contest time he DOES not have any signs of gyno, thus no breast deposits have formed. He is sensitive to estrogen and in the offseason they puff up slightly. Once again? Big deal? So anabolics should be illegal because people get puffy nipples on occasion?
?not pump my body full of substances that may be harmful?
Perhaps you should subscribe to the NEJM? They state that anabolics have NO serious side effects other than changes to cholesterol. Wait? DOCTORS and ENDOCRINOLOGISTS stating there are NO serious side effects that cannot be controlled!!!! OR maybe there study stating individuals on HRT live an average of 8-12 years longer than there male counterparts???
?The government could make alot of money by legalizing steroids?
Guess what? Lobbyists for pharmaceutical companies brought in over 120 MILLION dollars last year. Guess where that money goes? Taking your politicians on vacations and buying them new houses as gifts? The pharma companies have much more to gain.
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10-29-2007, 12:50 PM #73
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10-29-2007, 01:00 PM #74
Honestly. I could go down two roads here. I could go back and pick everyone of your arguements apart and make your head spin off or I can just tell you what I think of guys like you.
Guys like you make me sick. You say you have never seen anything "media " about steriods and that is a crock. Everyone has been subject to the media and their hype of steriod abuse. You have never heard anything about Barry Bonds and him taking steriods? Ok, so now you are wrong because you have been, in some way, influenced by the media.
Your arguement is terrible. You are talking to guys that have spent years of their lives testing and researching these compounds ( most of them ; done safely ). But here you come with " A guy " at the gym " told " me crap. Guess what? Maybe "that guy" is an idiot. You are not talking to idiots here friend and the mere fact that you believe half of what you just wrote is enough for me to figure you out.
You have put your foot in your mouth only to show just how comical a person you really are. Incongruity is written all over your post's backed with no validity. I hope other's on this forum all have had the chance to witness how you have conducted yourself. Your opinion's and your logic are clouded with ignorant post's and a precarious thought proccess.
You sir should really just STFUThe Fam :
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=107569731
Any and all PM's asking for sources are now being forwarded to a MOD.
Ask for a source = Banned
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10-29-2007, 01:56 PM #75
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Let's see,
I've talked to Flex on the telephone and exchanged numerous e mails with him. I also had FSGS. Anabolic steroids can not cause FSGS. Neither mine nor Flex's kidney disease had anything to do with using anabolic steroids and our MDs agree. Why do you think you know more?--
--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche
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10-29-2007, 02:08 PM #76
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10-29-2007, 04:14 PM #77
- Join Date: Jan 2004
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Hiramabiff is now in the green thanks to my reps:
ROBERT: you are to be congratulated on your profile picture, excellent development at your age, and a credit to add that much muscle naturally.
Whether you do it natural or 'aided' , as was pointed out already, a lot of hard work goes into building a great physique.....
I don't understand the belligerence on the part of many of the posters in this thread; Can't things be discussed where other people's feelings or opinions are respected???
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10-31-2007, 06:50 PM #78
- Join Date: Jul 2007
- Location: Gananouque, Ontario, Canada
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Of all the side effects mentioned, you chose that one to single out? Why no rebuttal vis a vis the other symptoms? Clearly I was making a reference, in jest, to a common symptom of some steroids, namely increased hair growth. Now that we have that cleared up, would you prefer to argue that there is no proof substantiating that side effect also? If so, what form of proof would you require from me?
Perhaps my tone appears sarcastic by times, I was not actually accusing steroids of growing hair specifically out of region between the eyes and the hairline. Again the argument is that some steroids cause noticeably increased hair growth. Unless you can prove otherwise, I do not think I lost that argument.
Until I see someone cooking up homemade aspirin, I'll take a pass on that.
How do we measure abuse, if not in legal terms? is 200 mils of a substance abuse ? 300 ? 400 ..500?..Stop me when I hit the magic abuse number.
Wait we're not done .Once we've figured out the magic dosage that is considered abuse, we now have to figure out how many cycles are considered abuse. 1 cycle? 4 cycles? 10 cycles, again inform me when we have hit the magic number that automatically qualifies as abuse...
Wait are we talking a stack? Well then we have to start all over, because now there is 2 (or more ) drugs involved and we have to reconsider everything form the dosages ,to the length and number of cycles. Instead of merely dismissing my interpretation of what constitutes abuse, perhaps you could supply that which you seem so quick to demand from me, namely a plausible explanation of what defines abuse.
Abuse IS DEFENITELY a matter of crossing borders. You ask me to ponder why the difference in legality. ? Has the fact that steroids are illegal in other countries, forced YOU to reconsider your opinion? Or is quoting other countries legal policies only relevant when attempting to prove your point? I can only imagine some of the Asian countries you are referring to might be ones with no human rights policies in place? If I?m wrong please specify which Asian countries allow the use or possession of anabolic steroids. If inside their borders, they allow someone to work an entire week for 30 cents, should that make me reconsider whether my country should adopt these same laws? If another country allows something, that does not make it right, or even worth pondering the difference in legality.
You want flawed logic? Not one shred of proof or logic. That statement is entirely comprised of your opinion. How do you know no one would define it that way?Apparently the U.S and Canadian governments seem to define it that way. "No one" ? Have you conducted a study? ? Perhaps you could ease back on your criticisms of my statements containing no proof until you yourself adhere by the same strict posting standards you ask of me.
I simply stated that most people would purchase their steroids in these locations. If not these locations, then where? The bank? The laundrymat? No mention of YOU pushing them there. As for studies, have you seen or heard of the newest studies the U.S conducted? You know the one that states that steroid "use" is rising at an alarming rate in American (and therefore probably Canadian) high schools. That just over 20 % of high school girls ADMIT to using steroids. How many do not admit? What does that, in turn, tell you?
[ Clearly now you are reaching in an attempt to pick apart anything I continue to post. Read that again. I merely stated , BY COINCIDENCE , that 1 person I knew, I don't know if other people were affected from the same batch of home brewed, has experienced problems with homemade d-bols recently. I have seen other instances in the past.BTW, the gentleman in question purchased the gear from someone who has been making it for years. It happens.I keep them anonymous, because I would not post their names without permission. By the same token, until you provide me with a detailed list of names , dates, instances, backed by concrete legal documents or videographic evidence, should I assume everything you tell me is a lie?
It's not "hiding behind" if it's true.You like to accuse me of that, don't you? Kind of hypocritical of someone with no information on their page..... Children are a product of their environment. Children who have smoking parents are twice as likely to smoke themselves. Drop a child on a deserted island from birth to age 30, I doubt he will feel the need to smoke , drink or take steroids. And here you begin to participate in practice you ,have stated repeatedly, that you find reprehensible on my part, namely generalization. "Kids" is a pretty all encompassing term. It's not right to stereotype steroid users, but kids in general is O.K. Again, I'm not resting the entire responsibility on your shoulders. Should I point out that these substances you have introduced in to the conversation have regulations in place to attempt the control the age of consumption? Which steroids do not. What section (and it's age restriction) that you "mainly" post in is not relevant here, as this is a forum without age restriction. As for the "correct information" you have pointed out, I have looked at your homepage and can see many posts of you asking for advice regarding steroids. But you claim to have the correct advice. How would a new user to steroids be able to seperate the correct advice from the flawed advice in that forum? Or is all the information posted in the steroid section correct?
Roid rage .. Thank you. That's one rosy side effect that I forgot to mention. It's one of the worst ones ,too. And guess where it is most prevalent ? In Teens....
Legal up here? Where would "here" be? I see no information on your page regarding a location. I see no distinguishing info whatsoever.
And please educate me , without sarcasm here, are all the substances needed to manufacture steroids legal to purchase, in large quantities, with the express purpose of manufacturing anabolics? Honestly , I am asking because I admit to not knowing.
Hiding behind my son? Who is hiding? Man to man and fact to fact? How do I even know you are a man? Honestly. There is no information on your site at all. From the lone picture you have provided ,I cannot even see your face. You could be a woman or a shaved monkey for all I know. I would assume you were a man ,but you have asked me not to make any assumptions or presumptions. What are YOU hiding from? Is it because everything you are doing is "legal". Don't be so quick to call me a coward, the manliest thing I know would be to take responsibility for my son. As for your fact to fact bit. you seem to be more interested in merely informing me I am wrong , in all aspects of my posts than providing me with facts. I have respect for the other posters who disagree with me, because some of them have actually suggested where to find positive info on steroids instead of merely calling me an emasculated coward.
Get off my high horse? I need my high horse , because unlike many, I prefer to take the high road.Last edited by hiramabiff100; 10-31-2007 at 08:30 PM.
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10-31-2007, 08:11 PM #79
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Recip's Fierce Crew!!!!
If i cant be the best i can be, i dont want to be.
Who we are is but a stepping stone to what we can become.
IM THE NEGGERNAUT BITCH!!
DONT PM ME ABOUT WHERE TO GET GEAR OR ANCILLARIES, I DONT KNOW YOU AND I WILL FORWARD YOUR PM TO A MOD!
I am immortal
I have inside me blood of kings
I have no rival
No man can be my equal
Take me to the future of new earth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnrXiaPVeHY
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11-01-2007, 02:09 AM #80
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Because of all the side effects you listed, this was the one you wrote with the most absurd statement, thus making it the easiest target to pick at. I thought that much was obvious.
Until I see someone cooking up homemade aspirin, I'll take a pass on that.
How do we measure abuse, if not in legal terms? is 200 mils of a substance abuse ? 300 ? 400 ..500?..Stop me when I hit the magic abuse number.
Wait are we talking a stack? Well then we have to start all over, because now there is 2 (or more ) drugs involved and we have to reconsider everything form the dosages ,to the length and number of cycles. Instead of merely dismissing my interpretation of what constitutes abuse, perhaps you could supply that which you seem so quick to demand from me, namely a plausible explanation of what defines abuse.
Abuse IS DEFENITELY a matter of crossing borders. You ask me to ponder why the difference in legality. ? Has the fact that steroids are illegal in other countries, forced YOU to reconsider your opinion? Or is quoting other countries legal policies only relevant when attempting to prove your point? I can only imagine some of the Asian countries you are referring to might be ones with no human rights policies in place? If I?m wrong please specify which Asian countries allow the use or possession of anabolic steroids. If inside their borders, they allow someone to work an entire week for 30 cents, should that make me reconsider whether my country should adopt these same laws? If another country allows something, that does not make it right, or even worth pondering the difference in legality.
I simply stated that most people would purchase their steroids in these locations. If not these locations, then where? The bank? The laundrymat? No mention of YOU pushing them there. As for studies, have you seen or heard of the newest studies the U.S conducted? You know the one that states that steroid "use" is rising at an alarming rate in American (and therefore probably Canadian) high schools. That just over 20 % of high school girls ADMIT to using steroids. How many do not admit? What does that, in turn, tell you?
Do you actually believe 20% of high school girls use steroids? PLEASE don't insult my intelligience. Its been talked about before, but I bet those girls don't know the difference between steroids and corticosteroids which doctors will administer regularly. That study did not define the mode in which they conducted the study. They did not list the questions used, and did not define to those asked what steroids really are. There are a ton of people in and out of the gym that think CREATINE is some sort of steroid.
Clearly now you are reaching in an attempt to pick apart anything I continue to post. Read that again. I merely stated , BY COINCIDENCE , that 1 person I knew, I don't know if other people were affected from the same batch of home brewed, has experienced problems with homemade d-bols recently. I have seen other instances in the past.BTW, the gentleman in question purchased the gear from someone who has been making it for years.
Roid rage .. Thank you. That's one rosy side effect that I forgot to mention. It's one of the worst ones ,too. And guess where it is most prevalent ? In Teens....
Hiding behind my son? Who is hiding? Man to man and fact to fact? How do I even know you are a man? Honestly. There is no information on your site at all. From the lone picture you have provided ,I cannot even see your face. You could be a woman or a shaved monkey for all I know.
I would assume you were a man ,but you have asked me not to make any assumptions or presumptions.
What are YOU hiding from? Is it because everything you are doing is "legal". Don't be so quick to call me a coward, the manliest thing I know would be to take responsibility for my son.
How are you taking responsibility for your son by responding to my replies on forum? Don't give me some far reaching statement, literally, explain to me how its taking responsibility?
As for your fact to fact bit. you seem to be more interested in merely informing me I am wrong , in all aspects of my posts than providing me with facts.
I have respect for the other posters who disagree with me, because some of them have actually suggested where to find positive info on steroids instead of merely calling me an emasculated coward.
Get off my high horse? I need my high horse , because unlike many, I prefer to take the high road.Last edited by chan_ho_nam; 11-01-2007 at 02:22 AM.
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11-01-2007, 02:23 AM #81
- Join Date: May 2004
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You want more proof?
Real Sports did a story on steroids. Eye opening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0LEj8IPHGU
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08-16-2021, 11:28 PM #82
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08-19-2021, 04:54 AM #83
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