matthor the win

[MrSinister]

haha drunk cardio even i used to do that... i know what u mean about coming here, when i was injured i hated reading about everyone's happy workouts!

[matthor]

haha yeah, my first cardio attempt mightnt have been the best idea @ 3am. My ankles are still crazy sore - not shins plints but very tender on the front/outside of the ankles. Should be sweet

Very busy ytesterday and todya a bit too - i like it though, keeps my mind off not training and makes me feel productive. Will be trying some lighter stuff today though, very light. Wont log it other than this heh.

I want to start swimming again shortly - maybe next monday I'll see how it feels on the ribs (thery are still sore but less so unless i bump them or somethign). Swimming will be the bulk of my activity for a while im guessing. I plan on getting a bit fitter for it and then maybe doing some squad work (once injuries allow more strokes). mix things up a bit if i can organise the schedule/time.

[Holyspokes]

Uh oh brah here comes lean ass swimmer matt

[141455675]

you trout!

[matthor]

lean/weak ass swimmer!

Ohh boy - my strength is much better than i anticipated. 5kg DB OHP rocked my world today - first time doing weighted tricep extension in 4months(?ish) though - icing now.

back to work a bit later - going to make a chicken curry- either Korma or Rogan Josh or Madras, i bought some sauces

[141455675]

lean/weak ass swimmer!

Ohh boy - my strength is much better than i anticipated. 5kg DB OHP rocked my world today - first time doing weighted tricep extension in 4months(?ish) though - icing now.

back to work a bit later - going to make a chicken curry- either Korma or Rogan Josh or Madras, i bought some sauces

4 months outta the game though dude, can't expect oo much hey.

ohh decisions, decisions...they are all wicked curries!

The household here has got some marinated prawns brewing for tonight!

[Spottydog]

Yay, swimming ftw! Things looking up a little?

I am anticipating this:

Swimming Session

Warm Up
<40minute walk to pool

Session

80laps Freestyle w/ Flippers ***PR*** + 10 laps
2laps Breast Stroke


Distance= 4.1km
Duration = 60min~ish

...soon!!! *fingers crossed no more injuries*

[PaC-mAn8]

lean/weak ass swimmer!

Ohh boy - my strength is much better than i anticipated. 5kg DB OHP rocked my world today - first time doing weighted tricep extension in 4months(?ish) though - icing now.

back to work a bit later - going to make a chicken curry- either Korma or Rogan Josh or Madras, i bought some sauces

WTF Matty, you into that Indian Cuisine brah?

You need to come to Chicago, so I can show you some REAL Indian/Paki cuisine.

How ya feelin' these days man?

[wabeer1]

At least the indian food will keep you regular

[Spottydog]

WTF Matty, you into that Indian Cuisine brah?

You need to come to New Delhi, so I can show you some REAL Indian/Paki cuisine.

Fixed

[The Solution]

That is how real men eat.. Indian Cuisine FTW!

[8146]

indian food? beside india, can't go wrong in australia. we've got the highest indian population beside india itself.. (I think!..)

nice swim there, nfi how you can be arsed

[nmsk80066]

good to see ya back :]

[SeanCC]

Tri's going to get sw0le w/ those massive extensions bro

[matthor]

4 months outta the game though dude, can't expect oo much hey.

ohh decisions, decisions...they are all wicked curries!

The household here has got some marinated prawns brewing for tonight!

hah yeah. but damn. 4yr old girls can do better than me right now

Yay, swimming ftw! Things looking up a little?

I am anticipating this:


...soon!!! *fingers crossed no more injuries*

things not looking up at all really - just the same I had almost forgotten about being able to swim that far - one day!

WTF Matty, you into that Indian Cuisine brah?

You need to come to Chicago, so I can show you some REAL Indian/Paki cuisine.

How ya feelin' these days man?

so real indian is chicago eh? lol, my tastes arent that discerning - it would be wasted on me

Feeling - the same, maybe a bit worse.

At least the indian food will keep you regular

no problems there

That is how real men eat.. Indian Cuisine FTW!

my first attempt actually. Was pretty good!

indian food? beside india, can't go wrong in australia. we've got the highest indian population beside india itself.. (I think!..)

nice swim there, nfi how you can be arsed

jump in a taxi and yep, i reckon we might!

that swim was ages ago - not sure how long ago - but a long long time!

good to see ya back :]

being back is a long long time away

Tri's going to get sw0le w/ those massive extensions bro

those were OHP's, not extensions lmao. 5kg extensions are a pipe dream right now haha


Coughed while in an awkward position last night, ribs are now more sore.

Been stretching psoas like crazy - no progress - after months and months of super diligent stretching. So tight... all the time. bleh

Did nothing other than stretching today

[flanka]

It's annoying how easily you can get injured sometimes.

Can you do wall squats at the moment?

[PaC-mAn8]

so real indian is chicago eh? lol, my tastes arent that discerning - it would be wasted on me

Feeling - the same, maybe a bit worse.

Nah. I mean...we have this place in Chicago called Devon Street. Its about 4 miles of just Indian/Paki restaurants, run by real Pakis/Indians. REAL good stuff.

[matthor]

It's annoying how easily you can get injured sometimes.

Can you do wall squats at the moment?

cant do anything that involves hip flexion/psoas activation. tehy are just too tight. That cancels out every sinle leg exercise except for glute bridges, hamstring curls (though both of mine are fked anyway - torn) or leg extensions (which i have to be careful with do to my dodgy knee)

So nope - cant even wall squat

Nah. I mean...we have this place in Chicago called Devon Street. Its about 4 miles of just Indian/Paki restaurants, run by real Pakis/Indians. REAL good stuff.

ahh awesome. im really liking spice right now

[Emma-Leigh]

Matt - just something to think about at this stage....

http://www.painandwellness.com/spina...njections.html
http://www.painclinic.org/musclepain-aboutbotox.htm
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=2656973

but it is something to think about....

[Emma-Leigh]

ps - also some info:
http://www.marchellerdc.com/pro_resources/Articles/#Ex
http://www.kineticcontrol.com/docume...PsoasMajor.pdf

[2 D]

Sucks about the ribs Matt, can't really say much to you, but to kick back with some friends and a few good brews and hope that it gets better sooner than later. Being with your friends should help keep you busy and your mind off of things.

[matthor]

Matt - just something to think about at this stage....

http://www.painandwellness.com/spina...njections.html
http://www.painclinic.org/musclepain-aboutbotox.htm
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=2656973

but it is something to think about....

ps - also some info:
http://www.marchellerdc.com/pro_resources/Articles/#Ex
http://www.kineticcontrol.com/docume...PsoasMajor.pdf

hrmm - very interesting stuff there Emma. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I havent had a chance to read through them all but hopefully will over the next few days.

Is this a common procedure? I'd never heard of it and would love a bit mor einfo or someone in sydney who does it to get a recommendation.

I understand the interplay b/w the psoas and the low back and my lordosis (which is improving) is further evidence. My erectors are certainly tight which I've learnt during the needling my osteo does - it has actually been the main focus right now to alleviate the psoas tightness. Im also doing alot of manual release and stretching of the psoas and continuing my spinal adjustments.

My hips and spine have not been aligned for very long, 4-5weeks (will check again tomorrow) so im not sure if that is enough time for the muscle tightness to be lessening but i am OCD with my stretching. I never stand without stretching something, at least not for long.

Do you know of people who have had this treatment? It is certainly interesting and im willing to try anything at this point. This has been going on for so long now that I honestly cant even see when things will be normal again. I cant remember a time except within 5-10min of release and stretching i havent been able to feel my hips are tight. It is just always there. Im wondering if the damnt hing isnt permanently shortened or soemthing - surely after this long and actually being diligent with the rehab and the exercises and the avoiding of stresses to compound the problems I should have seen some progress - as defined by the psoas being 'less tight'. Some other things have undoubtedly been happening and maybe that was all necessary to get out of the way before things that i can actually feel (ie:muscle pain - i cant feel that my hips are balanced or that my legs are now even for instance but im assured they are now) will start to happen; but as it stands, my hip flexors feel the same they did months ago whent his first became crippling.

Sorry for the bombardment of q's and the self-pity heh, the gist is just that yeah - im over this and need some resolution Your insight through all this has been invaluable and certainly furthered my knowledge on multiple subjects so thank you for that Emma

Sucks about the ribs Matt, can't really say much to you, but to kick back with some friends and a few good brews and hope that it gets better sooner than later. Being with your friends should help keep you busy and your mind off of things.

alcohol has been curing problems greater than mine for long enough right? lol, but yeah, keeping busy does help a bit - except being out with friends and not being able to do regular release (or being too, shall we say, indisposed to coordinate it) isnt helping anything heh

[nwskier]

matt i'm drinking for you in Vegas right now

srsly we are all ready for you to be done with this... I know it is beyond frustrated right now, but answers will be there for ya. I know taking a break really sucks for people as active as us. I know good things will come for ya mate, you are a good dude. keep fighting the good fight- in the mean time I'll be sure to get lewd this week, lol.

electric stim, electric stim... ask about it next time!
can't harrass you enough on that. it's worth seeing about it to help as a supplemental part of the treatment.

[8146]

man i think i am blind or just buckled at work... whats new the issue/injury concern?
i am really hoping, you're just leading people on here... and are actually training your arse off and will show up in a few months at 120kgs and 4% body fat :@

[Emma-Leigh]

hrmm - very interesting stuff there Emma. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I havent had a chance to read through them all but hopefully will over the next few days.

Is this a common procedure? I'd never heard of it and would love a bit mor einfo or someone in sydney who does it to get a recommendation.

It isn't used 'a lot' (yet), especially not in these sorts of issues - but it is used in many muscle spasm disorders such as spasm secondary to spinal cord injury, and also in cerebral palsy and other genetic disorders. It has actually been used in these for a while now.

Lately - it is starting to be used more in trigger point therapy (as are other things - eg: steroids and local anaesthetic)....
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20020215/653.html
http://www.painphysicians.com/ittriu...x65y1x16bx1x65
^
And it is also being used by some sports physicians at the moment for some other injuries - >
http://www.injuryupdate.com.au/issue...inum_toxin.php

I'll do some research and ask if anyone knows anyone in Sydney....

I understand the interplay b/w the psoas and the low back and my lordosis (which is improving) is further evidence. My erectors are certainly tight which I've learnt during the needling my osteo does - it has actually been the main focus right now to alleviate the psoas tightness. Im also doing alot of manual release and stretching of the psoas and continuing my spinal adjustments.

Hmmm.... has he looked at the SI joint and possible issues of sacroilitis?? Often go hand in hand with psoas/ erector issues and it could be causing referred pain and spasm in it's own right...

My hips and spine have not been aligned for very long, 4-5weeks (will check again tomorrow) so im not sure if that is enough time for the muscle tightness to be lessening but i am OCD with my stretching. I never stand without stretching something, at least not for long.

I think that, taking into consideration the chronic nature of your issues, you are going to find that you'll have more work yet. Not only do you have to consider 'muscle' retraining (and sometimes 'stretching' a tight muscle isn't enough for this < the muscle remains 'tight' and you stretch 'around' the issue instead)... but you are also going to have to retrain the neurological and connective tissue issues that have developed -> not only associated with the muscle spasm itself, but also with the feedback loops and pain pathways that have been activated....

Do you know of people who have had this treatment? It is certainly interesting and im willing to try anything at this point.

For sports injury ->> Botox? No. But corticosteroids + anaesthetic into trigger points? Yes. And they were finding good effect with it.....
For other diseases ->> Yes. And yes - it was VERY effective (spastic paralysis = new lease on life when their thoracic scoliosis was relieved...

This has been going on for so long now that I honestly cant even see when things will be normal again. I cant remember a time except within 5-10min of release and stretching i havent been able to feel my hips are tight. It is just always there. Im wondering if the damn thing isnt permanently shortened or soemthing - surely after this long and actually being diligent with the rehab and the exercises and the avoiding of stresses to compound the problems I should have seen some progress - as defined by the psoas being 'less tight'. Some other things have undoubtedly been happening and maybe that was all necessary to get out of the way before things that i can actually feel (ie:muscle pain - i cant feel that my hips are balanced or that my legs are now even for instance but im assured they are now) will start to happen; but as it stands, my hip flexors feel the same they did months ago whent his first became crippling.

^
have you thought about medication to help with retraining your nervous system? 'Unwinding' it? There is good evidence for the use of a few substances....

Sorry for the bombardment of q's and the self-pity heh, the gist is just that yeah - im over this and need some resolution Your insight through all this has been invaluable and certainly furthered my knowledge on multiple subjects so thank you for that Emma

No apology needed.... And you have every right to 'be peeved'. You have been doing all the right things < and it is about time things 'started to head the right way'.

[Emma-Leigh]

ps ->>

Ann Neurol. 2008 Sep;64(3):274-83. Links
Erratum in:
Ann Neurol. 2009 Mar;65(3):359.
Comment in:
Ann Neurol. 2008 Sep;64(3):236-8.
Ann Neurol. 2009 Mar;65(3):358; author reply 359.
Botulinum toxin type A induces direct analgesic effects in chronic neuropathic pain.

Ranoux D, Attal N, Morain F, Bouhassira D.
Services de Neurologie, Neurochirurgie et Soins Palliatifs, Centre Hospitalier Universitaire de Limoges, Limoges, France.
OBJECTIVE: Botulinum toxin type A (BTX-A) has been reported to have analgesic effects independent of its action on muscle tone, possibly by acting on neurogenic inflammation. Such a mechanism may be involved in peripheral neuropathic pain. METHODS: A possible direct analgesic effect of BTX-A pain processing was investigated in 29 patients with focal painful neuropathies and mechanical allodynia using a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled design. Patients received a one-time intradermal administration of BTX-A (20-190 units) into the painful area. Outcome measures, evaluated at baseline, then at 4, 12, and 24 weeks, included average spontaneous pain intensity, quantified testing of thermal and mechanical perception and pain, allodynia to brushing (area, intensity), neuropathic symptoms, clinical global impression, and quality of life. RESULTS: BTX-A treatment, relative to placebo, was associated with persistent effects on spontaneous pain intensity from 2 weeks after the injection to 14 weeks. These effects correlated with the preservation of thermal sensation at baseline (p < 0.05). BTX also improved allodynia to brush and decreased pain thresholds to cold, without affecting perception thresholds. There were sustained improvements in the proportion of responders (number needed to treat for 50% pain relief: 3.03 at 12 weeks), neuropathic symptoms, and general activity. Most patients reported pain during the injections, but there were no further local or systemic side effects. INTERPRETATION: These results indicate for the first time that BTX-A may induce direct analgesic effects in patients with chronic neuropathic pain independent of its effects on muscle tone and suggest novel indications for BTX-A in analgesia.
PMID: 18546285 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Clin J Pain. 2002 Nov-Dec;18(6 Suppl):S142-6. Links
Review of the FDA-approved uses of botulinum toxins, including data suggesting efficacy in pain reduction.

Lew MF.
Department of Neurology, Keck School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California, USA. mlew@surgery.usc.edu
Botulinum toxin has dramatically improved the treatment of a variety of neurologic disorders. Two botulinum toxin preparations are commercially available in the United States: type A (Botox) and type B (Myobloc). Current indications approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration include cervical dystonia, strabismus, blepharospasm, hemifacial spasm, and glabellar wrinkles for Botox, and cervical dystonia for Myobloc. Botulinum toxin inhibits release of acetylcholine from the neuromuscular junction, resulting in a localized paralysis when minute doses are injected. This mechanism enables botulinum toxin to alleviate symptoms of focal dystonias (which are characterized by excessive muscle contraction), and it may also, along with other theoretical mechanisms, be responsible for pain relief. Studies conducted in patients with cervical dystonia have shown that botulinum toxin effectively reduces pain associated with this disorder, suggesting that this agent may be effective in alleviating other painful syndromes.
PMID: 12569961 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Wien Klin Wochenschr. 2001;113 Suppl 4:20-4.Links
[Botulinum toxin treatment of hip adductor spasticity in multiple sclerosis]

[Article in German]

Wissel J, Entner T.
Universit?tsklinik f?r Neurologie, Innsbruck, Osterreich. Joerg.Wissel@uibk.ac.at
Spasticity results in a resistance to passive movement and decrease of passive mobility of the involved joints and is defined as a state of hypertonicity with exaggeration of tendon reflexes mediated by a loss of inhibitory control of upper motor neurons. In patients with severe stages of multiple sclerosis (MS) spasticity of the lower limbs often leeds to a spastic pattern with hip adduction resulting in decreased range-of-motion (ROM), increased pain, spasms, and functional disability (disturbed gait and sitting position) as well as difficulties with perineal hygiene. Local botulinum toxin type A (Btx-A) injections in spastic muscles offer a new treatment approach for managing spasticity and associated problems. Up to now Btx-A is approved for the treatment of blepharospasm and cervical dystonia and the treatment of equinous gait in children with cerebral palsy in Austria and Germany. Up to now only in Switzerland Botox is licensed for the treatment of focal spasticity. Btx-A is a neurotoxin derived from Clostridium botulinum. In most european countries Btx-A is available as Dysport (vial = 500 units) and Botox (vial = 100 units). In prospective studies a ratio of 1 unit Botox to 3-4 units Dysport was found. Following intramuscular injection Btx-A blocks the release of acetylcholine at the neuromuscular junctions, thereby inhibiting muscle contraction, and decreases spastic muscle tone and muscle spindles afferent information to the spinal cord. The spectrum of side effects includes local weakening of the injected and adjacent muscles as well as pain and haematoma at the injection site. At therapeutic doses side effects are local and transient. According to a double blind, placebo controlled, dose ranging study published by Hyman et al. (2000, Dysport in a dose of 500, 1000 and 1500 units reduced the degree of hip adductor spasticity associated with MS, and this benefit was evident despite concomitant use of oral antispasticity medication. According to the results of the study there was a clear trend towards greater efficacy and duration of effects with higher doses of Dysport. Taking efficacy and adverse events into account (incidence of muscle weakness was higher for the 1500 units group than for placebo) the optimal dose for hip adductor spasticity seems to be 1000 units Dysport divided between the adductor magnus, longus and brevis muscles and between both legs. To increase Btx-A effects following injection of hip adductors additional physiotherapy and casting or orthosis to increase passive hip-abduction is recommended. According to the literature anatomical localisation of the adductor muscles for injection and aspiration following insertion of the needle, to avoid injection of the toxin into a vessel, should be performed. A maximum dose of 1500 units Dysport (400 units Botox) per treatment session and 250 units Dysport (50 units Botox) per injection site is recommended. See table for dose-range of Dysport, and Botox in the treatment of adult patients with hip-adductor spasticity. For evaluation of treatment effects in hip adductor spasticity clinical examination with specific scales and measurements (see Appendix) at baseline, 4 and 12 weeks following BtxA injection is recommended:--Global rating of severity (0-4; patient's self assessment and physician's rating) --Global rating of response (-4 - +4; patient's self assessment and physician's rating)--Visual Analogue Scale (patient's self assessment of pain)--Active and passive ROM (manual goniometer)--Distance between the medial femur condyles in thigh extension (distance in cm)--Modified Ashworth scale (0-4)--Ten meter walking time (seconds)--Functional Ambulation Categories (0-5)--Score of perineal hygiene (0-5).PMID: 15506048 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

^

[flanka]

cant do anything that involves hip flexion/psoas activation. tehy are just too tight. That cancels out every sinle leg exercise except for glute bridges, hamstring curls (though both of mine are fked anyway - torn) or leg extensions (which i have to be careful with do to my dodgy knee)

So nope - cant even wall squat

No much choice there.

What about grip training? You must be able to train your grip at least.

[Emma-Leigh]

No much choice there.

What about grip training? You must be able to train your grip at least.

careful now - don't go suggesting anything crazy....!! We need matthor to be able to type <- and we don't want him hurting his fingers!



(ok, ok.... yes, I admit the joke was in poor taste.... Sorry Matthor.... ).

[nmsk80066]

guess just kick back and wait for it to subside. lol. best advice i can give :\ hope you start feeling better soon.

[matthor]

Hey all.

just dropping in quickly before work on a gorgeous sunday - seriously perfect day right now

Been pretty busy which is nice but havent had much time on here obviously. Thanks again for the information above Emma, hopefully i can have a bit of free time to digest it all in the next few days. Really appreciate your help here

I've had a couple of light weight sessions - nbothing crazy. Just 2 high rep sets for most things - pec fly, ball leg curls, leg ext, laterals, uprights, OHP, ball pushups, glute stuff. Nothing hard at all and very low weight. might do a little bit more today too. And yes, i reckon i can manage some grip training but im never excited for that - have to battle through it!

Decided i'll have a swim tomorrow and see how the ribs handle it - hopefully well so i can start getting a bit busy again

W/end has been ok, saw a couple of bands yesterday and got pretty loose heh, feeling a bit flat today but not too bad. Good times though. Mainly i've been working and off i go again. damn