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  1. #1
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    SERM's selective estrogen receptor modulators : Whats the best one?

    SERMs and AIs


    Letrozole
    Clomifene (Clomiphene)
    Tamoxifen
    Exemestane (Aromasin)
    Toremifene citrate

    interested on feedback.
    Last edited by uniquenutrition; 10-07-2007 at 12:58 PM.
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  2. #2
    TheIronMulisha.com JHICKS3301's Avatar
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    I will have feed back on Torm in about 6 weeks LOL


    But I did order a SERM and no Feds at the door LOL.. Not yet anways
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  3. #3
    Back In Business ZDub212's Avatar
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    What about Ralox?
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    Improve your Mind CognitiveNutrition's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ZacharyMills View Post
    What about Ralox?
    Whats the generic chemical name for that one?
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  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by uniquenutrition View Post
    Letrozole
    Clomifene (Clomiphene)
    Tamoxifen
    Exemestane (Aromasin)
    Toremifene citrate

    Just curious on feedback.
    Letrozole and Exemestane are AI not SERM.
    I do not work for any supplement company, I am on bb.com to share feedback on supplements and to try to help people with the little knowledge I have. **Please note this**
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  6. #6
    iRun Elliptical Envy's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Bloute is right.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Bloute's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by uniquenutrition View Post
    Whats the generic chemical name for that one?
    raloxifene hydrochloride
    I do not work for any supplement company, I am on bb.com to share feedback on supplements and to try to help people with the little knowledge I have. **Please note this**
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  8. #8
    IRON MULISHA SON! rizzog466's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by uniquenutrition View Post
    Letrozole
    Clomifene (Clomiphene)
    Tamoxifen
    Exemestane (Aromasin)
    Toremifene citrate

    Just curious on feedback.
    I'll let you know about the Tamox in about 2 weeks, lol. That will be my first time using a serm so I don't know about the rest. Everyone seems to be loving Torm and saying Nolva is dead. But yeah no feds at my door for ordering research chems yet.
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by Bloute View Post
    Letrozole and Exemestane are AI not SERM.
    Whats your experience using them?
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  10. #10
    Registered User Bloute's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by uniquenutrition View Post
    Whats your experience using them?
    Tamoxifen citrate was clearly better than OTC AI for PCT.

    From what I read, Toremifene seems to offer better recovery than nolva but I know that Health Canada didnt approve Fareston yet. I think that in term of positive effects/side effects Fareston isnt better than nolva so far from what I see.

    You should post this in the steroid section. They are really more experimented with AI and SERM.
    I do not work for any supplement company, I am on bb.com to share feedback on supplements and to try to help people with the little knowledge I have. **Please note this**
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  11. #11
    Improve your Mind CognitiveNutrition's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bloute View Post
    Tamoxifen citrate was clearly better than OTC AI for PCT.

    From what I read, Toremifene seems to offer better recovery than nolva but I know that Health Canada didnt approve Fareston yet. I think that in term of positive effects/side effects Fareston isnt better than nolva so far from what I see.

    You should post this in the steroid section. They are really more experimented with AI and SERM.
    Thanks for the feedback.
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  12. #12
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    Torem is a lot better on lipids than Nolva

    Resverstrol (which is legal to buy unlike the others) has a lot of promise as a SERM as well as an AI. You would want to make it into a transdermal tho cuz its molecular structure is so small
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  13. #13
    meathead bongd's Avatar
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    Torm seems to be some good **** standalone. But you can't go wrong with clomid/nolva. Yes, the lipids take a bit of a beating and clomid can make some people feel emotional, but it gets the job done.

    I wouldn't use Raloxifene for PCT... maybe if someone had gyno and aromasin and letro failed to yield any results. I HAVE seen instances where ralox helped people to lower volume in their nipples.

    I know that surgery is the one true way to get rid of gyno so I don't want little twats lecturing me on that... just mentioning it as it's a worthy cause before shelling out thousands for surgery. Not everyone here still clings onto mommy's teet.

    How come you're interested about SERMs, UN? I'm curious!
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  14. #14
    Improve your Mind CognitiveNutrition's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by browndustin View Post
    How come you're interested about SERMs, UN? I'm curious!
    My company has a licensed European pharmacy we legally sell non controlled drugs to doctors. pharmacies. clinics. and customers in the US. Ive been doing it with our MD for over 6 years but mostly drugs for neurological health I just added a bunch of serms and wanted some feedback from people for both personal interest and to see what people want and why.
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  15. #15
    Back In Business ZDub212's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by uniquenutrition View Post
    My company has a licensed European pharmacy we legally sell non controlled drugs to doctors. pharmacies. clinics. and customers in the US. Ive been doing it with our MD for over 6 years but mostly drugs for neurological health I just added a bunch of serms and wanted some feedback from people for both personal interest and to see what people want and why.
    You will be selling to US customers?
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  16. #16
    meathead bongd's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by uniquenutrition View Post
    My company has a licensed European pharmacy we legally sell non controlled drugs to doctors. pharmacies. clinics. and customers in the US. Ive been doing it with our MD for over 6 years but mostly drugs for neurological health I just added a bunch of serms and wanted some feedback from people for both personal interest and to see what people want and why.
    Ohh, snazzy! Thanks, man. Best of luck to all of your kooky endeavors!!
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  17. #17
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    I do not understand why Toremifen citrate is now universally liked more than Tamoxifen citrate.
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  18. #18
    Improve your Mind CognitiveNutrition's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ZacharyMills View Post
    You will be selling to US customers?
    I have been for about 6 years. You always get your order or a refund/reship. You can ask the people on M&M forums I have about 30 or more feedback cases there.
    Last edited by uniquenutrition; 10-07-2007 at 04:32 PM.
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  19. #19
    nom nom nom deserusan's Avatar
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    Torem seems the best options from a published research perspective. I've read most of the research and it is very compelling, especially in men. It's superior on paper to Nolva. This is one of my favorite studies:

    Fertil Steril. 2007 Apr 3;The beneficial effects of toremifene administration on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis and sperm parameters in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia.

    Farmakiotis D, Farmakis C, Rousso D, Kourtis A, Katsikis I, Panidis D.

    Division of Endocrinology and Human Reproduction, Second Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Thessaloniki, Greece.

    OBJECTIVE: To evaluate whether toremifene, a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM), has a beneficiary effect on all three main sperm parameters. DESIGN: Prospective interventional clinical study. SETTING: University hospital. PATIENT(S): One-hundred subfertile men with idiopathic oligozospermia. INTERVENTION(S): Toremifene (60 mg daily) was administered to all men for 3 months. At baseline and at the end of each month, serum concentrations of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone, inhibin B, and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) were measured. At baseline and at the end, semen analysis was performed and sperm concentration, spermatozoal motility and normal sperm forms were determined. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Gonadotropin, testosterone, inhibin-B levels, total sperm count, sperm morphology and motility. RESULT(S): Toremifene administration resulted in a significant increase in FSH, testosterone, SHBG, and inhibin B levels, as well as in sperm concentration, percentage motility and normal sperm forms. Twenty-two men's partners achieved pregnancy within 2 months of the end of treatment. At the end of the third month, serum FSH levels were significantly higher in the men whose partners did not achieve pregnancy, and total sperm count and normal sperm forms were significantly lower compared with the group of men whose partners achieved pregnancy. CONCLUSION(S): Toremifene administration for a period of 3 months in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia is associated with significant improvements of sperm count, motility, and morphology, mediated by increased gonadotropin secretion and possibly a direct beneficial effect of toremifene on the testes. The above findings are also indicative of a better testicular exocrine (improved sperm parameters) response to treatment in men whose partners achieved pregnancy compared with those who did not. Further randomized, placebo-controlled trials should be conducted to determine whether this particular selective estrogen receptor modulator can be useful as an initial approach in men with oligozoospermia.
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    Originally Posted by deserusan View Post
    Torem seems the best options from a published research perspective. I've read most of the research and it is very compelling, especially in men. It's superior on paper to Nolva. This is one of my favorite studies:
    Thats a great find! Thanks deserusan.
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    Originally Posted by uniquenutrition View Post
    I have been for about 6 years. You always get your order or a refund/reship. You can ask the people on M&M forums I have about 30 or more feedback cases there.
    Very cool. Is there a complete list of what you have to offer floating around somewhere?
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    Originally Posted by ZacharyMills View Post
    Very cool. Is there a complete list of what you have to offer floating around somewhere?
    Look at the m&m link in his sig.
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    Talking

    Nice. Toremefine basically owns tamoxifen.
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    Heretic....
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    Originally Posted by deserusan View Post
    Torem seems the best options from a published research perspective. I've read most of the research and it is very compelling, especially in men. It's superior on paper to Nolva. This is one of my favorite studies:
    Torem seems superior in term HPTA recuperation on paper but it practices it seems to vary from users .

    Also, fareston hepatotoxicity seems to be higher than nolva in a few studies.

    Fareston seems better on lipids but health canada seems slow to ask it as a remplacement for cancer drug though.

    With that said, people will still think for a while that torem is new and nolva is proven for years so I doubt we will see a change.
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    Originally Posted by Bloute View Post
    Torem seems superior in term HPTA recuperation on paper but it practices it seems to vary from users .
    Personally I don't have any first hand experience with either but started looking into Tore and it's effect as test booster. I'm currently looking for analogues. As far as HPTA recup goes the research is compelling and the clinical markers supporting it's efficacy is strong.
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    Originally Posted by deserusan View Post
    Personally I don't have any first hand experience with either but started looking into Tore and it's effect as test booster. I'm currently looking for analogues. As far as HPTA recup goes the research is compelling and the clinical markers supporting it's efficacy is strong.
    Well studies show a good effect on HPTA and recovery but I never saw a complete comparative studies between different SERM for PCT so I think there is a difference between saying that Toremifene is a good SERM for PCT and Toremifene is the best choice all the way for PCT.

    Only my 2 cents though.
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    Originally Posted by Bloute View Post
    Well studies show a good effect on HPTA and recovery but I never saw a complete comparative studies between different SERM for PCT so I think there is a difference between saying that Toremifene is a good SERM for PCT and Toremifene is the best choice all the way for PCT.

    Only my 2 cents though.
    Thanks Bloute your 2 cents adds up!
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    Originally Posted by Bloute View Post
    Well studies show a good effect on HPTA and recovery but I never saw a complete comparative studies between different SERM for PCT so I think there is a difference between saying that Toremifene is a good SERM for PCT and Toremifene is the best choice all the way for PCT.

    Only my 2 cents though.
    I agree completely. However, when taking into account reported side effects of tamoxin vs. toremifene it does indeed appear torem is the best choice. Here's a comparion of side effects:

    http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/toremifene_ad.htm

    http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/tamox_ad.htm

    Both are actually long, but when you start looking into the case reports of tamox begins to shine through as being a little more dangerous. Maybe it's becuase it has been around longer, but when compared to the studies on men using tore, it seems inferior IMO. This is just from casual observation though.
    Last edited by deserusan; 10-07-2007 at 05:52 PM.
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    I'm alittle interested in SERD's Selective estrogen-receptor downregulators. However there seems to be only one out there.

    fulvestrant


    ERDs, or estrogen-receptor downregulators, block and break down estrogen receptors. With fewer hormone receptors available, fewer cancer cells receive the signal telling them to grow. This is how ERDs stop or slow down the growth of hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer cells.

    The only ERD that's available is Faslodex (chemical name: fulvestrant). Faslodex is approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for post-menopausal women with hormone-receptor-positive metastatic breast cancer after other hormonal treatments, such as aromatase inhibitors or tamoxifen have stopped working.

    At a Glance
    ERDs keep estrogen from latching onto hormone receptors
    Hormone receptors are like ears or antennae on a cell. Estrogen sends signals through the receptors that tell breast cancer cells to grow. Cells with estrogen receptors grow and multiply when estrogen attaches to the receptors. But ERDs like Faslodex break down those receptors so that estrogen can't latch on.

    Like SERMs (selective estrogen-receptor modulators, such as tamoxifen), ERDs bind to and block estrogen receptors so that estrogen cannot turn on the breast cancer cells. Tamoxifen and other SERMs block estrogen receptors in the breasts, but can act like weak estrogen in other parts of the body. Unlike SERMs, ERDs destroy estrogen receptors but do not act like weak estrogens anywhere else in the body.

    ERDs do not seem to affect brain hormones, which stimulate the body's thermostat. For this reason, ERDs may cause fewer menopause-like side effects than tamoxifen, including hot flashes. ERDs are more like aromatase inhibitors in the degree and frequency of hot flashes and other menopausal symptoms
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