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  1. #241
    Registered User Bill Gates's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    well nice to meet him then

    what i said still stands though. he needs to show some evidence that this proposed mechanism can happen

    And lets not turn this around into "show me why this CAN'T happen".
    sorry a mistake!!!

    Patrick my post was wrong. OxygeniX is Dr Mark J Tallon .
    ( I quoted wrong person, of course I edited it. )
    Last edited by Bill Gates; 03-23-2005 at 03:31 PM.
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  2. #242
    Banned Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Iron Draggin
    The company has a patented product called Tri-creatine orotate. even if it just dirt, there is still a product called tri-creatine orotate. he is purchasing said product from the patent holder, so he has in no way ever mis-represented what is in Clout. the question really is wether the Patent holders are full of crap not J-Rod. Wether tri-creatine orotate is a 3-1 mol bonded salt or 3 parts creatine 1 part oratic acid, doesn't really matter, in terms of a patented product.

    That was in refrence to the claim that J-rod is mis-representing his product.

    tricreatine orotate is not a trademark name. Its a chemical name, and therefore must represent the actual chemical.

    You cannot trademark a chemical name.

    so your argument is bad
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  3. #243
    Registered User Bill Gates's Avatar
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    Patrick out of this topic question

    In ur opinion which one is superior?

    creatine ethyl ester or creatine methyl ester?

    thanx
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  4. #244
    Echo In Eternity J-Rod's Avatar
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    We will have a HPLC and a NMR on this very soon. As well as a more thorough rebutal to any disputes.

    Sorry for the time involved. I am running a business, and I have to go coach my sons T-Ball practice!

    In regards to Superman100 aka Lemony's true identity, and intents. Facts on this matter are known, a huge file has been collected over the years for libel, defamation, slander and more!... Trails have been left - and have been traced - thoroughly.

    It is not my intention to perpetuate on negativity and to take legal action by issuing a Subpoena of the servers involvedd that would conclusively prove the identity of superman100 and all of his other monikers. Wisdom tells me to turn the other cheek and let Karma work its wonders.

    We will continue to conduct ourselves professionally. Whether questioned by competitors or the people who we strive to touch that use our products.

    It is also important for me to reiterate the efficacy of CLOUT. We have 30 references listed on our site that support our product. Not many, if any companies provide this information to the public. And we will gladly engage in conversation with any individual that doubts or questions the efficacy and performance of our product.

    CLOUT is at the frontier of increasing anaerobic performance. And that is exactly why it has garnered so much attention from malicious driven competitors.

    Thanks.
    Joey Rodrigues
    President
    HALEO Inc.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/haleo.html
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  5. #245
    Echo In Eternity J-Rod's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by superman100
    Jrod I am surprised that you are insisting that I am some person out to get you. I even took up for your character. At least give me a break ok. I have not attacked you personally in any way and if you feel that this is so then I apologize.

    I never said I was "said" individual. I only said that it really doesn't matter. If you come on here to promote your product then you should be able to handle honest public criticism. It really doesn't matter who it is from.

    Motives? In this case to make sure that this product is what it says it is. Nothing more and nothing less. What else? Obviously, no matter who I am I want to make sure that quality products are being sold. That is really the only point.

    Jrod, I already said that I see no evidence that you are purposely trying to deceive anyone. Why are you being so emotional? I have already apologized to you. I have already admitted that you are probably a good guy. What else do you want? I just got done saying this and yet you then accuse me of being malicious against you. Give it up already.

    One of the top PhD's in the field of creatine already verified that no such compound can exist. PA admitted it also. Are you saying these guys don't know what they are talking about? Anybody here can call the creapure people and they will tell you.

    I think we all eagerly await your scientific evidence.

    I think it is honorable that you will do whatever is right in making this product correct. Please look at that statement carefully. It is praise. NOT MALICE. There is no malice or ill will here.

    Please post an email from the PhD or his name.

    Incidentally PA also commented that labeling our product Tricreatine Orotate should not affect the credibility of our product. And any one that does a little research into the make-up of our product will realize it is at the forefront of performance, and unparalled by anything available in its category.
    Joey Rodrigues
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    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/haleo.html
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  6. #246
    I am a machine. Matt96teg's Avatar
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    J-Rod seems to be handling the situation quite well. As he mentioned a few times he is looking into it. I personally trust MAN and their products. I cannot wait to try CLOUT. J-Rod is a stand up guy (haven't met him personally).

    I think it is great that he is having it tested to see what it is. Like the BO "rock" situation he handled that great. Great customer service obviously.
    Do or Die
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  7. #247
    donkey punch dito dito's Avatar
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    Joey MAN up and kick his ass already. You know you wanna. Get all caballero up on that!
    Dito is like pussy. Either you love it or you're gay.

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  8. #248
    Banned Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bill Gates
    Patrick out of this topic question

    In ur opinion which one is superior?

    creatine ethyl ester or creatine methyl ester?

    thanx

    i dunno the data on methyl (solubilities etc.), but its properties are probably not too much different than ethyl. Maybe slightly less lipophilic

    but the fact that it breaks down into methanol (toxic) instead of ethanol (non toxic) is enough reason for me to stick to CEE
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  9. #249
    Banned Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Patrick Arnold is offline
    Originally Posted by J-Rod
    We will have a HPLC and a NMR on this very soon. As well as a more thorough rebutal to any disputes.

    I don't think this instrumentation is gonna do you any good

    i would just ask a few knowledgable PhD chemists if they agree with my assessment or not, and save yourself the trouble of going any further
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  10. #250
    Banned Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Patrick Arnold is offline
    Originally Posted by J-Rod
    Please post an email from the PhD or his name.

    Incidentally PA also commented that labeling our product Tricreatine Orotate should not affect the credibility of our product. And any one that does a little research into the make-up of our product will realize it is at the forefront of performance, and unparalled by anything available in its category.

    do you have any written information anywhere on why you think creatine orotate is so great?
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  11. #251
    Registered User Bill Gates's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    i dunno the data on methyl (solubilities etc.), but its properties are probably not too much different than ethyl. Maybe slightly less lipophilic

    but the fact that it breaks down into methanol (toxic) instead of ethanol (non toxic) is enough reason for me to stick to CEE
    thanks
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  12. #252
    we ARE many TheOMEGA's Avatar
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    I just want everyone to know that I have a Belly Button

    seriuosly
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  13. #253
    Perfecting perfection jhov's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dito
    Joey MAN up and kick his ass already. You know you wanna. Get all caballero up on that!
    LMAO
    Leave it to u to come up with that during this ''debate'' lol
    peace
    J
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  14. #254
    Alpha Mail/E-thug aceman0920's Avatar
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    re

    I too, have a belly button

    TheACEMAN
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  15. #255
    we ARE many TheOMEGA's Avatar
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    TheOMEGA is offline
    Originally Posted by aceman0920
    I too, have a belly button

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  16. #256
    Registered User superman100's Avatar
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    I could give the PhD's name but won't to protect his privacy from everyone calling him. If you think I am lying then so be it. Do you think that one phone call is that difficult to accomplish? It would make no sense for me to lie about this.

    Regarding whether it is a true salt, the PhD told me that the best way would be to perform single crystal xray analysis. I wonder if Jrod would be kind enough to get a large crystal of his material to someone independent for testing.

    Patrick, are you malicious when you attack Bill L or any of your other competitor's products based on what you believe is the science? There is really no point in questioning intent. It is irrelevant. The point is to deal with the science at hand in a respectful manner. I do thank you though for your input on this as it has been very helpful.

    "he is purchasing said product from the patent holder, so he has in no way ever mis-represented what is in Clout. the question really is wether the Patent holders are full of crap not J-Rod. " This is bull! That is like a supplement company putting out an R-ala supplement but instead it contains r and s ala. What if the company said that it wasn't their fault because the chinese company told them that it was good material. Or a company puts out a product with "glutamine akg" which I don't think exists and then says sorry it is not my fault because my Chinese supplier told me that it existed. That is ridiculous. Consumers expect quality and they expect to get what they are paying for.

    Jrod, how will your HPLC and NMR show that tricreatine orotate exists or whether you have a mixture or an actual salt?

    Jrod, I am honestly surprised that you continually want to sidestep the issue at hand by attacking me. Please tell me who I am and please tell me all of the monikers that I have used and how these monikers have defamed and injured you? What have I SUPPOSEDLY said about you, your company or your products? Don't blame me (and whoever you think I am) for this situation. The only thing I did was ask a simple question. It is obvious from your obssession with this guy that he must have really done something bad to you in the past. But it's ridiculous to assume that this guy is me just because I question one of the ingredients in your product.

    I also think Jrod that noone is maliciously attacking you because your product is so cutting edge or effective. I think everyone would applaud you if you came out with a good product. If it is a good product then I am sure your competitors would rather copy the technology than spend their time maligning a product that is good. I find it strange that you would say this. Maybe, just maybe you should consider the possibility that your product cannot contain tricreatine orotate and that maybe it is mislabeled. As Pat said, just ask a few professors of chemistry at universities in your area and be done with it. Then if there is a mistake, admit it and fix the problem. You will be classy and gain all of our respect. I applaud Higher Power for how they handled the situation. They didn't resist but gave the benefit of the doubt to the consumer and immediately fixed the situation. Yes they made a mistake but heck they are human. Everyone is entitled to mistakes. It's how you handle mistakes that is most important.

    Anyway, let me state one more time that I want this to be a respectful mature discussion. Let's not get into any childish shenanigans and keep this discussion above board.
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  17. #257
    Registered User Colinballin23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed
    i'm tired of this, i gave you multiple chances, I blanked out the last 2 digits so people couldn't get ahold your whole address

    # Lemony 148.244.150.** [Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
    # superman100 148.244.150.** [Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
    Originally Posted by str8flexed
    Not only do you match lemmony, but you match a host of other names as well. I am going to dig a little further into this.

    Interestingly enough, the IP is in the same state as a certain supplement company...

    interesting
    you still have yet to admit you post under multiple screen names that is the only issue at hand. JRod stated already "We will have a HPLC and a NMR on this very soon. As well as a more thorough rebutal to any disputes." until then what else is to discuss many parties have chimed in on there opinions ultimately all there is left to do is wait and see how the results come up. In the meantime we have yet to get hear any admission from you and your multiple SN's if you want to talk about being mature maybe that is a starting point.
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  18. #258
    He's out of his chains!!! UnleashedBeast's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dito
    Joey MAN up and kick his ass already. You know you wanna. Get all caballero up on that!
    lol I agree
    My Neurostim+C Orange Pineapple Log:
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  19. #259
    He's out of his chains!!! UnleashedBeast's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    do you have any written information anywhere on why you think creatine orotate is so great?
    I dunno if this is what you're looking for, but this is Joey's article on Orotic Acid:
    http://manb2p.com/article_sexiestnutrient.html
    My Neurostim+C Orange Pineapple Log:
    [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=384771[/url]

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  20. #260
    Registered User secondsight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast
    I dunno if this is what you're looking for, but this is Joey's article on Orotic Acid:
    http://manb2p.com/article_sexiestnutrient.html
    Wow. Interesting article on Orotic Acid. Looks like it has promise.
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  21. #261
    Banned Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Colinballin23
    JRod stated already "We will have a HPLC and a NMR on this very soon.

    but these tests are absolutely useless in regards to determining whether this stuff is a salt or some sort of mixture of free acid and base
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  22. #262
    Registered User Colinballin23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    but these tests are absolutely useless in regards to determining whether this stuff is a salt or some sort of mixture of free acid and base
    then what can be done to determine that? Also would it make a big difference in the performance of the product?
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  23. #263
    Banned Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Colinballin23
    then what can be done to determine that? Also would it make a big difference in the performance of the product?

    some sort of x-ray crystallography of the pure material i guess. but it is a waste of time cuz its just NOT POSSIBLE to have a tri salt with this to begin with!!

    and the stupidest thing about all this is that it probably does not matter whether this is all in a salt form, partially in a salt form, or all in free acid and base. when you dissolve it in water (mix it) it dissociates the same as it would if it were originally in salt form anyway!! The benefits will be exactly the same

    so this argument is purely semantical. not only that but it is getting quite boring and laborious
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    some sort of x-ray crystallography of the pure material i guess. but it is a waste of time cuz its just NOT POSSIBLE to have a tri salt with this to begin with!!

    and the stupidest thing about all this is that it probably does not matter whether this is all in a salt form, partially in a salt form, or all in free acid and base. when you dissolve it in water (mix it) it dissociates the same as it would if it were originally in salt form anyway!! The benefits will be exactly the same

    so this argument is purely semantical. not only that but it is getting quite boring and laborious

    why doesn't anyone ever listen to me? don't you all know that i am right 99% of the time here (and when i am not i am not afraid to admit it)

    is it cuz i am such a dick?
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    why doesn't anyone ever listen to me? don't you all know that i am right 99% of the time here (and when i am not i am not afraid to admit it)

    is it cuz i am such a dick?
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    is it cuz i am such a dick?

    BTW, I would rather be a dick than be sappy / soporific about how i am a stand up guy and i am here for da peoples and **** (thats not a knock at you specifically joey, but by the same token you do gotta give that stuff a break man)

    Define a man by his actions, not his words
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    BTW, I would rather be a dick than be sappy / soporific about how i am a stand up guy and i am here for da peoples and **** (thats not a knock at you specifically joey, but by the same token you do gotta give that stuff a break man)

    Define a man by his actions, not his words

    oh BTW (and sorry i am rambling here) but there is a famous cartoon of a postman (i think he was a postman) who had people yelling at him all day and giving him crap and all through it he was as nice as he could be. And then they show him walking through his door and his wife says "hi honey" and he decks her

    I prefer to get my aggressions and frustration out online. Because in real life i am quiet and modest and nice and patient (well i try to be). Its better than socking my wife.

    So bear with me
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    oh BTW (and sorry i am rambling here) but there is a famous cartoon of a postman (i think he was a postman) who had people yelling at him all day and giving him crap and all through it he was as nice as he could be. And then they show him walking through his door and his wife says "hi honey" and he decks her

    I prefer to get my aggressions and frustration out online. Because in real life i am quiet and modest and nice and patient (well i try to be). Its better than socking my wife.

    So bear with me

    7000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    secondsight is just really nice. (+1000) secondsight is just really nice. (+1000) secondsight is just really nice. (+1000) secondsight is just really nice. (+1000) secondsight is just really nice. (+1000) secondsight is just really nice. (+1000) secondsight is just really nice. (+1000) secondsight is just really nice. (+1000) secondsight is just really nice. (+1000) secondsight is just really nice. (+1000) secondsight is just really nice. (+1000)
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    7000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Congrats.
    BTW, I noticed you changed the name of 6-OXO again... 4-etioallocholen-3,6,17-trione.
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