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  1. #1
    Echo In Eternity J-Rod's Avatar
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    CLOUT- Keeping It Real!

    I apologize to the good members of this forum who have had to bare witness to the malicious behavior by a certain individual - who I know all to well - that continues to act immaturely, childishly and unprofessionally. That is putting it nicely.

    We know who you are where you are and personally, I would like to say to you, that as much as you try to get me upset or cause malicious damage to my character, it is just not going to happen. I would also like to offer you some advice. Spend more time focusing on constructive behavior and doing good and leave the hate a lone. It is just not the type of behavior a man of your faith should be exhibiting.

    In regards to Tricreatine Orotate and whether it exists or not, yes it does. The material being used in CLOUT was purchased by my company from the company that has a Patent on the synthesis of this material. Please see U.S. Pat. No. 6,838,562

    I forwarded the chemist who made this material your original post that you quickly deleted under the handle Lemony. Nevertheless, this is what he had to say to your post:

    Originally Posted by Lemony
    JRod, time for the smackdown!

    I must tell you that I really have to bring this discussion to a new level. A level about science and facts. I understand that you are hyping this product to no end. I guess you feel that you must do this being a new company and all but c'mon bro let's not go overboard.

    I must tell you something very important. Something that should make ANYONE skeptical of taking this supplement of yours. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TRICREATINE OROTATE! It just doesn't exist. Orotic acid is a monocarboxylic acid and does not have three places of attachment. Hell, it doesn't even have two places of attachment. For you to list tricreatine orotate says one of two things and neither of them are very good.

    1. You knew that you cannot have tricreatine orotate but listed it this way on the label anyway just as a marketing ploy. Of course this would speak very badly about your character and we all hope that you would not be such a dishonest person. It does bring me great concern though.

    2. You did not know the above which then brings to question, "What the hell son are you doing in this industry?" The question now bro is what is in your product? Did you even have it tested? Is it toxic? What is it? I am very concerned about this. For spending a year on this project, you should at least know something as basic as this. If you don't know something this basic then how can I trust anything about your product? What else is wrong? This would speak of gross incompetence on your part.

    Since it is impossible that you have tricreatine orotate then one of the following must be true bro:

    1. You have a mixture of creatine monohydrate and orotic acid which means your product is the poop.

    2. You have creatine orotate but you obviously did not test it and thus have no idea whether you have this or not (the ratios of creatine to orotic acid are much different for tricreatine orotate versus monocreatine orotate).

    3. There is no creatine or orotic acid in your product.

    Either way bro, you can see the problem here. This brings credibility issues with you as a person and with quality and efficacy problems with your product.

    You are a new company son and I know you will do anything to get ahead but we don't need this in this industry. It is already polluted enough. We need honest people that will produce honest products. Clout is obviously not it. I am sorry to tell you but in your own words I have laid the smackdown on you (just joking bro, calm down).

    My recommendation would be to save your reputation by admitting this mistake and pulling this product from the market. You should then rework the product and then introduce it correctly. I know this is a lot to ask. Hell, you have already dealt with too many quality problems in your company. From patent infringement to nearly unusable clumping product and now this. I wish I were not the bearer of this bad news but I could not let the fine people of this discussion board spend their hard earned money on this wrongful product.

    Superman
    RESPONSE FROM THE CHEMIST WHO HAS A PATENT ON THE SYNTHESIS OF Creatine Orotate, Dicreatine Orotate and Tricreatine Orotate:

    I have to say this guy absolutely has no chemical knowledge. There are two kinds of salting bonds, now, let me have some description on how these bonds formed. The first type is one alkaline molecule donates electrons to an acid molecule, this happens between strong alkali and strong acid, this has to be in 1:1 molecular ratio. The other one is alkaline molecule shares electrons with acid molecule, this happens between weak alkaline and weak acid. This is a relatively loose bond, electrons are floating between moleclules, this provides a wide range of molecule ratio cause the molecules are sharing the electrons, no molecule is exclusively possessing the electrons like the first type. Creatine Orotate is having the second type of bond cause creatine is a weak alkaline, orotic acid is a weak acid. This has nothing to do with the amount of carboxylic radical. The best example is creatine pyruvate, the molecule ratxio range is extremely wide, you could retrieve these US patents 6,172,111, 6,166,249, 5,886,040 to see what happened between creatine and pyruvic acid.


    I would also like to personally add that we have made no claims into this being a wonder creatine compound in terms of transport or absorption, although it may prove to be superior in this regards to other creatine salts, this claim just cannot be made. What we do know is that from an additive effect, Creatine + Orotic Acid obviously delivers more ergogenic CLOUT than Creatine alone.
    Joey Rodrigues
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  2. #2
    I am a machine. Matt96teg's Avatar
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    I never doubted CLOUT
    People just like to make up things and most of the time they are a competitor that wishes they could have brought it out first.

    Props to you for posting the info from the chemist to back CLOUT up.
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  3. #3
    Echo In Eternity J-Rod's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Matt96teg
    I never doubted CLOUT
    People just like to make up things and most of the time they are a competitor that wishes they could have brought it out first.

    Props to you for posting the info from the chemist to back CLOUT up.
    Thank you Matt, but this is not the end. It is only the begining. Firmer action will be taken though, as enough is enough. I am not happy about the negativity as that only breeds destruction. However I must say I appreciate your sincerity - it is refreshing in todays world.
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  4. #4
    I am a machine. Matt96teg's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention I just started taking MAN BodyOctane about 5 days ago...So far it is great...Endurance is pretty incredible and the pumps are too, I also just got off of a CEE product too and my endurance is still going up. Now I just got to find a creatine to stack it with. So far very impressed with BO...I am going to be bringing this into the store within a couple of weeks. (Already have quite a few people who want to try it out).
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  5. #5
    Echo In Eternity J-Rod's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Matt96teg
    Forgot to mention I just started taking MAN BodyOctane about 5 days ago...So far it is great...Endurance is pretty incredible and the pumps are too, I also just got off of a CEE product too and my endurance is still going up. Now I just got to find a creatine to stack it with. So far very impressed with BO...I am going to be bringing this into the store within a couple of weeks. (Already have quite a few people who want to try it out).

    That is great. I can send you some CLOUT to try, the only thing is that you have been on CEE for a while, so your muscle phosphocreatine stores are already pretty high. If you can run BODYOCTANE for a month without any creatine, and then possibly add CLOUT to it after a month, that would be great.
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    The Great One sawastea's Avatar
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    Cool

    Joey, if this means anything, you're still my snuffelupuukus.
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    I am a machine. Matt96teg's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by J-Rod
    That is great. I can send you some CLOUT to try, the only thing is that you have been on CEE for a while, so your muscle phosphocreatine stores are already pretty high. If you can run BODYOCTANE for a month without any creatine, and then possibly add CLOUT to it after a month, that would be great.
    Yeah, I can do that. I thought that just taking BO by itself wouldn't do a whole lot but so far it is helping me pump out some more reps. Taste is great too.

    I can compare it(CLOUT) to CEE too for the skeptical people. Mainly for the person who thinks CLOUT is BS and just mono with orotic acid.
    Last edited by Matt96teg; 03-18-2005 at 11:11 AM.
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  8. #8
    Banned Jedi Master's Avatar
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    I got your back J-rod. I know CLOUT will be a great product.
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  9. #9
    Echo In Eternity J-Rod's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Matt96teg
    Yeah, I can do that. I thought that just taking BO by itself wouldn't do a whole lot but so far it is helping me pump out some more reps. Taste is great too. I can compare it to CEE too for the skeptical people. Mainly for the person who thinks CLOUT is BS and just mono with orotic acid.

    Originally I was going to use CEE or C-AKG with Orotic Acid in the formula. That is what we are marketing the additive effect. The fact that Tricreatine, Dicreatine, and Creatine Orotate exist, give us some novelty/marketing advantage.

    But again, we are referencing studies only on Orotic Acid and Creatine, and Acetyl group doning, mineral deficiencies, phosphorous, etc....

    In regards to BODYOCTANE, I think one of the major advantages is that it can help strength, and it certainly helps recovery, but it does not use creatine. I did not want to cheapen the formulation by including creatine in it. We all know that creatine in any size, shape or form, is going to work. For a product to increase performance/strength, etc... without creatine says a lot in my book, and I feel that is why BODYOCTANE has a loyal following, even after the initial clumping disaster.

    Nevertheless, I would like your comments on its efficacy, and will be giving out some freebies for people to review....
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  10. #10
    Echo In Eternity J-Rod's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jedi Master
    I got your back J-rod. I know CLOUT will be a great product.

    For what it is worth. The Red Pubic Hair comment, still makes me laugh!!!

    And I am well aware how you make or break supplement companies around this part, so thanks for the props! ;-)
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    Echo In Eternity J-Rod's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sawastea
    Joey, if this means anything, you're still my snuffelupuukus.
    That sounds kinda gay. But Thanks! I got love for you too!
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    One of the reasons I trust J-ROD, is because he is one of the few supp company owners that works out, uses his own products, and is in great shape.
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    Thanks Joey you are a stand up guy. I wish your company and family well.

    Derek

    P.S Perhaps you should out these losers who are trying to bring you down.
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  14. #14
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    size is just really nice. (+1000) size is just really nice. (+1000) size is just really nice. (+1000) size is just really nice. (+1000) size is just really nice. (+1000) size is just really nice. (+1000) size is just really nice. (+1000) size is just really nice. (+1000) size is just really nice. (+1000) size is just really nice. (+1000) size is just really nice. (+1000)
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    Best of luck J-ROD. I applaud you in your manner to handle situations professionally.
    size is a fictitious character.
    Please read the forum rules.
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    Originally Posted by J-Rod
    For what it is worth. The Red Pubic Hair comment, still makes me laugh!!!

    And I am well aware how you make or break supplement companies around this part, so thanks for the props! ;-)

    I said the last comment as a total joke, and everyone thought I was being serious.
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    Echo In Eternity J-Rod's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Doughboy
    Thanks Joey you are a stand up guy. I wish your company and family well.

    Derek

    P.S Perhaps you should out these losers who are trying to bring you down.
    Thanks. I do appreciate your words, beyond description.

    And, there is no need to pour gasoline on a fire, or perpetuate negativity. It is just not my thing. This guy has been outed many times before...and we all know who he is. And as hard to believe as this sounds, I hold no malice towards the man, and wish him no bad or misfortune.
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    Echo In Eternity J-Rod's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by size
    Best of luck J-ROD. I applaud you in your manner to handle situations professionally.
    Thank you.
    Joey Rodrigues
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    Originally Posted by J-Rod
    Thanks. I do appreciate your words, beyond description.

    And, there is no need to pour gasoline on a fire, or perpetuate negativity. It is just not my thing. This guy has been outed many times before...and we all know who he is. And as hard to believe as this sounds, I hold no malice towards the man, and wish him no bad or misfortune.
    wait who are you guys talking about? do I need to off someone for you joey?
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    re

    "Originally I was going to use CEE or C-AKG with Orotic Acid in the formula. That is what we are marketing the additive effect. The fact that Tricreatine, Dicreatine, and Creatine Orotate exist, give us some novelty/marketing advantage."

    Wait, so why didn't u use CEE, i'm not comprehending this statement
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    The Great One sawastea's Avatar
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    Cool

    Originally Posted by Jedi Master
    One of the reasons I trust J-ROD, is because he is one of the few supp company owners that works out, uses his own products, and is in great shape.
    Are you saying that Rodknee Dupont doesn't work out?


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    Originally Posted by sawastea
    Are you saying that Rodknee Dupont doesn't work out?


    <img src=http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/big/2004olympia_expo150.jpg>

    LMAO!! THAT GUY IS SUCH A SKINNY LOSER!
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    O/T J-Rod

    I think I read somewhere that the clumping issue w/ BO had been fixed? Do all the supp companies have the new formula. Used this about 5 months w/ good results but unfortunatly got sick and when I got back to the gym the clumping had won. I still use the "Chewy Rock Candy" every once in a while but just wanted to check with you before I placed a new order.

    Thanks in advance

    Also, I'm taking CEE & Citrulline any suggestions on masking the taste?
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    We never doubted you J-Rod (but you already knew that and we had your back because of constant display of classiness, manners and cool head when critized), congrats on getting your product out and I hope to buy some after X-Factor and a month of cutting or so.

    Since you bought the rights to the patent is the main reason the price is higher than most of us anticipated?
    Last edited by Zachattack43; 03-18-2005 at 12:03 PM.
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    Originally Posted by plainsman
    I think I read somewhere that the clumping issue w/ BO had been fixed? Do all the supp companies have the new formula. Used this about 5 months w/ good results but unfortunatly got sick and when I got back to the gym the clumping had won. I still use the "Chewy Rock Candy" every once in a while but just wanted to check with you before I placed a new order.

    Thanks in advance

    Also, I'm taking CEE & Citrulline any suggestions on masking the taste?
    Ahhhhh, the BODYOCTANE Rock Candy! Yes, all retailers have the new unclumped version.

    In regards to masking CEE and Citrulline Malate, try adding some crystal light to it!
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    Originally Posted by zachattack43
    We never doubted you J-Rod (but you already knew that and we had your back because of constant display of classiness, manners and cool head when critized), congrats on getting your product out and I hope to buy some after X-Factor and a month of cutting or so.

    Since you bought the rights to the patent is the main reason the price is higher than most of us anticipated?

    The price on CLOUT is very good, when you consider the amount of actives in the formula. Especially when compared to other products that would fall in the same product category. And its efficacy in the real world by hard training fitness enthusiasts such as yourself, will prove its value in due time.

    Thanks again for the support!
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    Originally Posted by J-Rod
    The price on CLOUT is very good, when you consider the amount of actives in the formula. Especially when compared to other products that would fall in the same product category. And its efficacy in the real world by hard training fitness enthusiasts such as yourself, will prove its value in due time.

    Thanks again for the support!
    oh i have no doubt that you priced it real good, its just i was curious. I always been real curious about how purchasing rights to patents work in general.
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    Originally Posted by zachattack43
    oh i have no doubt that you priced it real good, its just i was curious. I always been real curious about how purchasing rights to patents work in general.

    I did not purchase the rights to the patent, I just bought from the patent holder. They pretty much control the pricing and distribution of the material.
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  28. #28
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    Good stuff J-Rod, handled with true class.
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    Originally Posted by J-Rod
    I did not purchase the rights to the patent, I just bought from the patent holder. They pretty much control the pricing and distribution of the material.
    oh my bad man, i guess i didnt read your first post right, sorry
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  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by J-Rod
    Originally I was going to use CEE or C-AKG with Orotic Acid in the formula. That is what we are marketing the additive effect. The fact that Tricreatine, Dicreatine, and Creatine Orotate exist, give us some novelty/marketing advantage.

    But again, we are referencing studies only on Orotic Acid and Creatine, and Acetyl group doning, mineral deficiencies, phosphorous, etc....

    In regards to BODYOCTANE, I think one of the major advantages is that it can help strength, and it certainly helps recovery, but it does not use creatine. I did not want to cheapen the formulation by including creatine in it. We all know that creatine in any size, shape or form, is going to work. For a product to increase performance/strength, etc... without creatine says a lot in my book, and I feel that is why BODYOCTANE has a loyal following, even after the initial clumping disaster.

    Nevertheless, I would like your comments on its efficacy, and will be giving out some freebies for people to review....
    J-Rod,

    Maybe you could offer a Body Octane + CEE product alongside the original Body Octane, sort of like Marc's done with Neurostim and Caffeine. I agree that Body Octane is great by itself, but I thought I would suggest this because I've used a Body Octane/Bulk CEE stack and definitely got better results with it than any other creatine product I've ever tried(and I've tried many). Anyway, I look forward to trying CLOUT and wish you continued success in the industry.
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