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  1. #6301
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    Thanks for the thread and all the advice allpro and others. I did my 10 rep heavy workout this morning and its starting to get hard. Planning on running at least 2 or 3 cycles to get my strength up as I'm weak for my size (just starting back lifting after a long time off)

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    Just started this program again after taking nearly 12 months off to get nice and fat First week I was really sore, now into the second week and feel great.

    Saw good results with the first go round, only complaint is this does get repetitive. Anyone have any suggestions to keep this interesting and fresh? I created the bodyspace and populated the trackers, in hopes that seeing visual representations of gains would keep me motivated to stick with it.

  3. #6303
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    Originally Posted by slimchopra View Post
    Hello all, so I"m going to start this on Monday but I have a bunch of questions. I apologize for any redundancies as this thread is insanely long.

    My first question is, my gym doesn't have a barbell, only free weights, so is it cool if I use those isntead?

    Second, I'm not familiar with all of the exercises so I looked them up on the supersite and put the names here. I wanted to put links but I can't post them yet. Do I have the right ones?

    Squats - dumbbell-squat
    Bench Presses - dumbbell-bench-press
    Bent-Over Rows - bent-over-two-dumbbell-row
    Overhead Barbell Presses - I can't find this one
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts - stiff-legged-dumbbell-deadlift
    Barbell Curls - dumbbell-bicep-curl
    Calf Raises - calf-raise-on-a-dumbbell
    over head press = shoulder press or military press.

  4. #6304
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    Originally Posted by SlyWolf View Post
    Hey, I just finished my 3rd cycle. I got some good gains from this program. Now I'm mostly going to focus on mma and muay thai classes for a few months and was wondering if anyone can recommend me to a good 2 day program or modification. I want to maintain my build if not even gain a little bit. I don't think I'll be able to manage a 3 day program that's why I'm asking for 2.

    Thank you
    My variation on Starr's 5x5.
    Power clean, bench press, squat.
    V1 first work out, 25%x5, 50%x5, 75%x5, test weight x3.
    second work out use the same weight but do all 4 sets for 5 reps
    ----------------------------
    V2 first work out 25%x5, 50%x5, 75%x5, test weight x 5
    second work out 25%x5, 50%x5, 75%x5, test weight x 3 x 5 (3 sets of 5)
    V1 will produce more speed and power. Strength will increase faster than V2.
    V2 will produce more size, and anaerobic endurance than V1.
    ---------------------------
    They both work well for athletes. If you're doing lots of plyometric work for speed then you can replace power cleans with rows.
    Every time you can complete ALL of the reps increase the weight by 5% or by 5 pounds up to 150, 10 pounds there after. Every 4th week deload by doing just the first 3 sets for both work outs. If you don't do that than fatigue will build up and the program will stall.

  5. #6305
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    Originally Posted by slimchopra View Post
    I also have a question about how much weight to use. I don't fully understand the instructions on the first page.

    >You will do 3 work outs per week on non consecutive days. The first work out is your >heavy work out. The second work out is your medium work out, use 10% less weight >for your work sets. The final work out for the week is your lite work out, use 20% less >weight.

    So for this part, let's say I'm doing an exercise with 25 lbs, so Mon I do 25 lbs, Wed I do 22.5 lbs, and then Fri I do 20 lbs? Is that right? Is there even such a thing as a 22.5 lb weight?

    >Do a lite warm up with 1/4 of your work sets weight. Do a medium warm up with 1/2 of >your work sets weight. Do 2 work sets with the same weight. Choose a starting weight >and start light.

    And for this, I'm doing 4 sets total with the following weights:

    Lite warm-up 1/4 of 25 lbs - 18.75 lbs
    Med warm-up 1/2 of 25 lbs - 12.5 lbs
    2 Work sets at what weight? 12.5 or 25?

    Then I do the 4 sets? So I'm actually doing a total of 8 sets with the warm-ups?
    2 warm up sets and 2 work sets. The starting weight is a 10 rep max. That's about 75% of your 1 rep max.

  6. #6306
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    Originally Posted by nswrestler130 View Post
    Wondering if you think it would be too much to add weighted dips on wednesday and pull ups on friday?
    Run the program as is for at least 2 cycles before you decide to add anything.

  7. #6307
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    Originally Posted by slaterpc View Post
    On the intermediate workout, after the deload do you add 10 pounds to the new cycle or start with the week 3 weights?

    Also, I added shrugs to the assistance do you have any opinion to behind the back shrugs?
    If you were completing all of the reps then add 10 pounds to start the next cycle.

  8. #6308
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    Originally Posted by Peperoncino View Post
    Firstly, another big thanks for a simple, quick and effective workout.

    I have one question though: I am moving overseas in 6 weeks and will be able to join a gym there, but I have I am quickly running out of weights for the squat and deadlift where I currently work out. Can I just up the reps for a couple of weeks for the squat and deadlift until I start at a new gym that is fully equipped?

    P.s. I'm a long time lurker, first time poster
    Increasing the reps beyond 2x12 could really screw up the strength gains. Anaerobic endurance would continue to increase, size gains would probably slow down. You might be better off to be patient until you can get into a gym that has what you need.

  9. #6309
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    Originally Posted by TruMalu24 View Post
    Hey allpro,

    Really appreciate the advice, have made good progress under the program and I am thankful that I can always come here for help. I recently ran into a problem.


    I just started my third cycle. During my second cycle I felt a little pain in my back while squatting but ignored it. On my first week of the third cycle with a 10% weight increase, the pain increased quite a lot. That next week I could barely finish my squats. Tried to stiff leg deadlift after and it was a no-go.

    So I think I strained my back. I took 7 days completely off for rest. My back feels better and no longer hurts during the day, but I tried 135lbs squatting (65% of my usual weight) and it still felt slightly wrong.


    1) Should I avoid squats, deadlifts and rows for now? Or just do warm-ups? How long?

    2) I am also cutting right now, will I lose a lot of strength and have to regress to my 2nd cycle weight levels?

    3) Does it harm my cutting by removing or lightening the weight on all of these exercises considering that cutting requires 3 workouts/week and now my workouts are extremely light?


    If you have any other advice for my back problems with this program or with my cutting that I didn't address with questions then please let me know.

    As always, thanks for your advice allpro. Guys like you make this website great.
    1) STOP LIFTING NOW!
    2) You have to determine if it's the spinal erectors or a disc. If the pain is in the center in the spinal column then see a doctor NOW! If it's to the sides of the your spinal column then it's the spinal erectors. There a very small muscle but there are lots of them. You're going to have to take some time off of ALL weight lifting and work on your abs. This is the main problem with humans. Your abs fail under heavy load and all of the stress is picked up and dealt with by the spinal erectors. If you keep pushing it then at some point you'll bend a little bit and blow out a disc. I've been there and done that. Don't do it! No human on the planet can lift enough weight to blow out a disc. But bend just a little bit and put all of the stress on just one small portion of a disc and you'll be in a world of hurt.
    So again, determine if it's a disc or a muscle by where the pain is. If it's a muscle you can just reduce your weights on squats, rows, stiff leg dead lifts and over head press and start back up the ladder. BUT you have to work on those abs or the same thing is going to happen. If the pain is in the spinal column SEE A DOCTOR!

  10. #6310
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    Originally Posted by boconnor811 View Post
    Just started this program again after taking nearly 12 months off to get nice and fat First week I was really sore, now into the second week and feel great.

    Saw good results with the first go round, only complaint is this does get repetitive. Anyone have any suggestions to keep this interesting and fresh? I created the bodyspace and populated the trackers, in hopes that seeing visual representations of gains would keep me motivated to stick with it.
    Keeping your head in the game is always a problem. I try to keep lots of notes and play any kind of music that will keep my mind off of what I'm doing to my body.

  11. #6311
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    Quick question. I've browsed through the 200+ pages of the thread and get that Smith machine squats are frowned upon. My problem is that the gym I use only has DB's up to 50 and a Smith machine. I have been using the Smith for squat, bench, and SLDL. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.

  12. #6312
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    Originally Posted by remodeler View Post
    Quick question. I've browsed through the 200+ pages of the thread and get that Smith machine squats are frowned upon. My problem is that the gym I use only has DB's up to 50 and a Smith machine. I have been using the Smith for squat, bench, and SLDL. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.
    It sounds like you're pretty much screwed. By very careful with that thing. I think it was designed and manufactured in hell by the devil himself.

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    Thanks for the quick reply, the plan is to join a real gym soon, I'm just trying to do something in the meantime. I'm self employed and trying to save up some $ to join a proper gym. You think I can manage not killing myself if I try to keep my form as correct as possible?

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    So I did the workout yesterday for the first time. I'm not at all soar today? Shouldn't I be? Did I not use enough weight? I wanted to focus on form and I'm concerned I took it way to easy. Being that this is the weight I will use for the next 5 weeks I don't think I'll make gains if I don't get the weight correct.

  15. #6315
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    is this specifically for first timers or will this workout work for people who aren't necessarily new to the gym but feel that maybe they've been lacking in certain aspects.

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    All Pro,

    For the weights I basically just grabbed anything and then increased it until I couldn't do more than 10 reps with proper form. For the dumbell bench press for instance I did 15/22.5/25/25. So how much should I do on Wednesday? 20% less then 25 lbs would be 20 lbs. But what about the warm-up sets?

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    Originally Posted by slimchopra View Post
    All Pro,

    For the weights I basically just grabbed anything and then increased it until I couldn't do more than 10 reps with proper form. For the dumbell bench press for instance I did 15/22.5/25/25. So how much should I do on Wednesday? 20% less then 25 lbs would be 20 lbs. But what about the warm-up sets?
    Why did you use such high weights on your warmup sets? Did they not have smaller dumbbells? When you asked this question before, you knew to use 25% and 50%, so just curious why so much higher in your actual workout?

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    Originally Posted by PhilSchultz View Post
    is this specifically for first timers or will this workout work for people who aren't necessarily new to the gym but feel that maybe they've been lacking in certain aspects.

    I ran this routine for about 5 months. Saw very good results. I am now doing a similar routine (two day split, but heavy focus on compound lifts). I lifted for 10 years, then took about 8 years off. This program was the first (combined with a very good diet) that yielded me the results I had always wanted.

    I am planning to return to this program in a few months (most likely). It is a solid program, and if done correctly, should produce results for a long time. In most cases (this one included), the program isn't the issue. Diet, rest and intensity are the issues.
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  19. #6319
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    My variation on Starr's 5x5.
    Power clean, bench press, squat.
    V1 first work out, 25%x5, 50%x5, 75%x5, test weight x3.
    second work out use the same weight but do all 4 sets for 5 reps
    ----------------------------
    V2 first work out 25%x5, 50%x5, 75%x5, test weight x 5
    second work out 25%x5, 50%x5, 75%x5, test weight x 3 x 5 (3 sets of 5)
    V1 will produce more speed and power. Strength will increase faster than V2.
    V2 will produce more size, and anaerobic endurance than V1.
    ---------------------------
    They both work well for athletes. If you're doing lots of plyometric work for speed then you can replace power cleans with rows.
    Every time you can complete ALL of the reps increase the weight by 5% or by 5 pounds up to 150, 10 pounds there after. Every 4th week deload by doing just the first 3 sets for both work outs. If you don't do that than fatigue will build up and the program will stall.
    Thanks a lot, really appreciate it. I'll probably do rows cause most classes have plenty of plyometrics for conditioning.
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  20. #6320
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    1) STOP LIFTING NOW!
    2) You have to determine if it's the spinal erectors or a disc. If the pain is in the center in the spinal column then see a doctor NOW! If it's to the sides of the your spinal column then it's the spinal erectors. There a very small muscle but there are lots of them. You're going to have to take some time off of ALL weight lifting and work on your abs. This is the main problem with humans. Your abs fail under heavy load and all of the stress is picked up and dealt with by the spinal erectors. If you keep pushing it then at some point you'll bend a little bit and blow out a disc. I've been there and done that. Don't do it! No human on the planet can lift enough weight to blow out a disc. But bend just a little bit and put all of the stress on just one small portion of a disc and you'll be in a world of hurt.
    So again, determine if it's a disc or a muscle by where the pain is. If it's a muscle you can just reduce your weights on squats, rows, stiff leg dead lifts and over head press and start back up the ladder. BUT you have to work on those abs or the same thing is going to happen. If the pain is in the spinal column SEE A DOCTOR!
    Thank you for your concern. I talked to my dad who is a cardiologist and also talked to a 4th yr med student I am hooking up with and from the discussions I am fairly certain its the spinal erectors.

    So let me get this straight. I am going to cut off all weight lifting for a week or two until everything feels better. I am going to do weighted abs and cardo.

    After a week or two of rest, I can go back to weight lifting, but I'll have to go back to the weights at my first cycle and start these cycles all over?

    Therefore, my cutting cycle is on hold for two weeks and I should eat at maintenance calories until lifting again.

    Is there anything wrong with the assessment?


    Thanks again. I have to admit I was very sad when I heard your news that my cut was over. I went to McDonalds and ordered a 10 piece Chicken McNuggets meal =-(

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    Originally Posted by thedogdidit View Post
    Why did you use such high weights on your warmup sets? Did they not have smaller dumbbells? When you asked this question before, you knew to use 25% and 50%, so just curious why so much higher in your actual workout?
    Well I didn't know what my starting weight was going to be for each exercise, so I just grabbed any size and tried to do 10 reps as correct as possible.

    So for the bench press for instance I was able to do 25 lbs. I did 15 and 22.5 for the warm-up because doing 1/4 and 1/2 would be roughly 6 lbs and 12.5 which are way too easy. I didn't feel anything with those so I increased the weight for the warm-up.

    But now my problem is, after doing 15/22.5/25/25 on Monday I don't know what to do today.

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    Originally Posted by slimchopra View Post
    Well I didn't know what my starting weight was going to be for each exercise, so I just grabbed any size and tried to do 10 reps as correct as possible.

    So for the bench press for instance I was able to do 25 lbs. I did 15 and 22.5 for the warm-up because doing 1/4 and 1/2 would be roughly 6 lbs and 12.5 which are way too easy. I didn't feel anything with those so I increased the weight for the warm-up.

    But now my problem is, after doing 15/22.5/25/25 on Monday I don't know what to do today.
    So you're basically asking for a routine *different from* the one that's outlined in the first post? If you want to follow *this* routine - All Pro's Simple Beginner Routine - then you should do it as written. That way you won't have to keep asking how to do things differently.

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    Very good , progressive overload on reps,weight + periodization !

    did some similar training programs

    "pdfcast.org/pdf/strong-body-strength-only-strength"
    "pdfcast.org/pdf/one-rep-to-grow"

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    Well, everybody, started on the program on Monday.... still not sure if my starting weights were right.

    When using dumbbells it is the weight for each dumbbell that I have listed below - not the combined weight for both.


    -First day - my heavy day

    DB Squats = 8 x 6kg, 8 x 14kg -couldn't find the 12kg, 8 x 24kg (x2)

    DB - B. Press = 8 x 6kg, 8 x 10kg, 8 x 18kg, 5 x 18 kg (should I drop to 16 kg as max?)

    Bent over row = 9 x 10kg, 8 x 15 kg, 8 x 30 kg (x2)

    Overhead press = 8 x 6 kg DB, 8 x 12.5 kg, 8 x 25 kg, 6 x 25 kg

    SLDL = 8 X 10 kg (lightest bar), 8 x 15kg, 8 x 30 kg (x2)

    B. CURL = 8 X 6 kg DB, 8 x 10 kg, 8 x 25 kg, 6 x 25 kg

    DB Calf raises = 15 X 20 kg (x 3)

    Tagged AB machine onto end......

    weight set at 25 = x20, x20, x 13, x 9, x8


    Today - my medium day


    DB Squats = 8 x 6kg, 8 x 14kg -couldn't find the 12kg, 8 x 22kg (x2)

    DB - B. Press = 8 x 6kg, 8 x 10kg, 8 x 16kg (x2)

    Bent over row = 8 x 10kg, 8 x 15 kg, 8 x 27.5 kg (x2)

    Overhead press = 8 x 6 kg DB, 8 x 12.5 kg, 8 x 22.5 kg (x 2)

    SLDL = 8 X 10 kg (lightest bar), 8 x 15kg, 8 x 27.5 kg (x2)

    B. CURL = 8 x 10 kg, 8 x 22.5 kg (x2)

    DB Calf raises = 15 X 20 kg (x 3)

    AB Machine at end.....

    Weight set at 25 = x20, x20, x15, x8, x8, x7

    Does this look ok?

    I now need to get my diet into gear...on training day, I have a drink straight after training before I hit the shower.....7.30am
    250 mls semiskimmed - 2% fat
    blended with 5 egg whites
    2 tablespoons of honey
    one large banana

    When I get into work 1/2 hour later I have a 130gm tin of tuna on 3 slices of mixed seed bread toasted and a cup of green tea.

    Rest of day - meals / snacks vary - am working out plan to have specific intake of nutrients at set meals /calories.

    Any pointers very welcome

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    Originally Posted by thedogdidit View Post
    So you're basically asking for a routine *different from* the one that's outlined in the first post? If you want to follow *this* routine - All Pro's Simple Beginner Routine - then you should do it as written. That way you won't have to keep asking how to do things differently.
    Okay I will go with what's written. Do you understand what I mean though? Doing a bench press with 5/6 lbs just feels like I'm wasting time because it's so easy. If there's something that I'm missing please tell me. I have no problem following the instructions, I just want to make sure I'm doing something that will get me progress.

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    Question Need some Clarification!

    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    A Simple beginner's Routine
    You will do 3 work outs per week on non consecutive days. The first work out is your heavy work out. The second work out is your medium work out, use 10% less weight for your work sets. The final work out for the week is your lite work out, use 20% less weight.

    Do a lite warm up with 1/4 of your work sets weight. Do a medium warm up with 1/2 of your work sets weight. Do 2 work sets with the same weight. Choose a starting weight and start light.

    These are the seven exercises you will be starting with.

    Squats
    Bench Presses
    Bent-Over Rows
    Overhead Barbell Presses
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
    Barbell Curls
    Calf Raises

    You will be running this program on a five week cycle as follows:
    The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
    The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
    The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
    The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
    The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
    If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10% and

    repeat the cycle. If you didn't get all of the reps on the fifth week then repeat the cycle with the same weight. You shouldn't need more than one minute rest between the warm up sets and you shouldn't need more than one minute thirty seconds between the work sets.
    Do some cardio and abs work on non weight training days.

    This will sound dumb but after look through multiple pages of this thread I still could not find a set workout routine. I am a noob when it comes to all of this and am looking for some clarification and guidelines. The way this is set up is the following being implied?

    Week1: Monday, Wednesday, Friday-

    Squats 4x8
    Bench Presses 4x8
    Bent-Over Rows 4x8
    Overhead Barbell Presses 4x8
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts 4x8
    Barbell Curls 4x8
    Calf Raises 4x8

    Week2: Monday, Wednesday, Friday-
    Same as above but 4x9

    Week3: Monday, Wednesday, Friday-
    Same as above but 4x10

    Week4: Monday, Wednesday, Friday-
    Same as above but 4x11

    Week5: Monday, Wednesday, Friday-
    Same as above but 4x12

    Am I understanding this correctly or am I just an idiot or both Also I would do my heaviest weights or what I have "trouble" lifting but still am able to lift on Monday. Then Wednesday a little lighter, and Friday the lightest. If someone could just clarify this for me and correct me if I am misunderstanding I'd greatly appreciate it! Thanks!

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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    I ran this routine for about 5 months. Saw very good results. I am now doing a similar routine (two day split, but heavy focus on compound lifts). I lifted for 10 years, then took about 8 years off. This program was the first (combined with a very good diet) that yielded me the results I had always wanted.

    I am planning to return to this program in a few months (most likely). It is a solid program, and if done correctly, should produce results for a long time. In most cases (this one included), the program isn't the issue. Diet, rest and intensity are the issues.
    alright thanks a lot dude, I just got my diet all worked out i'm gonna start this routine Monday.

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    Originally Posted by GETRIPPED23 View Post
    This will sound dumb but after look through multiple pages of this thread I still could not find a set workout routine. I am a noob when it comes to all of this and am looking for some clarification and guidelines. The way this is set up is the following being implied?

    Week1: Monday, Wednesday, Friday-

    Squats 4x8
    Bench Presses 4x8
    Bent-Over Rows 4x8
    Overhead Barbell Presses 4x8
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts 4x8
    Barbell Curls 4x8
    Calf Raises 4x8

    Week2: Monday, Wednesday, Friday-
    Same as above but 4x9

    Week3: Monday, Wednesday, Friday-
    Same as above but 4x10

    Week4: Monday, Wednesday, Friday-
    Same as above but 4x11

    Week5: Monday, Wednesday, Friday-
    Same as above but 4x12

    Am I understanding this correctly or am I just an idiot or both Also I would do my heaviest weights or what I have "trouble" lifting but still am able to lift on Monday. Then Wednesday a little lighter, and Friday the lightest. If someone could just clarify this for me and correct me if I am misunderstanding I'd greatly appreciate it! Thanks!
    You've got it. that's how the routine is run. However, just remember that the first two sets of the 4 are warmup sets. So you are only doing 2 sets at your work weight. First set is 1/4 the weight, and second set is half, then full weight.

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    Thanks Scrubbo!

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    Originally Posted by slimchopra View Post
    Okay I will go with what's written. Do you understand what I mean though? Doing a bench press with 5/6 lbs just feels like I'm wasting time because it's so easy. If there's something that I'm missing please tell me. I have no problem following the instructions, I just want to make sure I'm doing something that will get me progress.
    you are warming up your body, getting the blood moving, stimulating your cns (nervous sytem), working your connective tissue... you are doing a lot. just do it as it's written.

    Originally Posted by slimchopra View Post
    All Pro,

    For the weights I basically just grabbed anything and then increased it until I couldn't do more than 10 reps with proper form. For the dumbell bench press for instance I did 15/22.5/25/25. So how much should I do on Wednesday? 20% less then 25 lbs would be 20 lbs. But what about the warm-up sets?
    you need to properly test your 10 rep max. pick a heavy weight and see how many you can do. if you just keep adding on and do a bunch of reps, you'll already be partly worn out from the earlier light lifts and you won't get your proper 10 red max. so if you can easily do 2 sets of 10 reps at 25lb, try 40lb or 50lb and see how many you can do.
    Last edited by velveteenrabbit; 11-03-2010 at 11:19 AM.

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