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  1. #2701
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    Originally Posted by Cobbs87 View Post
    Good point. I can see how the endurance would continue to lag if I simply upped the weight. Is there anything else you would recommend to boost endurance. Is cardio helpful for that or would that be two different things entirely?

    I've started a pretty good HIIT cardio routine lately for cutting purposes so maybe I will start to see improvement.
    Cardio is aerobic endurance. It wont help anaerobic endurance. Water, carbs, time and patience. This program is running primarily on glucose. That's water and carbs. The secondary system is ATP but because of the rep range it doesn't have the same importance that it would have with the 5x5s. Even still, if you aren't using creatine....START! 5 grams per day just might do the trick. Make sure you are hydrated. Some fruit an hour before a work out and Gatorade during a work out. These are the things that I would try.

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    Originally Posted by DS1111 View Post
    How much time do you normally wait between exercises? Is 2 1/2 to 3 minutes fine?
    I wait the recommended 1 1/2 min between work sets. Would it be cheating to up that to 2 min on heavy days during weeks 4 and 5 since it gets much harder to get all the reps in?
    bump

  3. #2703
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    Originally Posted by DS1111 View Post
    How much time do you normally wait between exercises? Is 2 1/2 to 3 minutes fine?
    I wait the recommended 1 1/2 min between work sets. Would it be cheating to up that to 2 min on heavy days during weeks 4 and 5 since it gets much harder to get all the reps in?
    Originally Posted by DS1111 View Post
    bump
    From the VERY FIRST POST!

    You shouldn't need more than one minute rest between the warm up sets and you shouldn't need more than one minute thirty seconds between the work sets.

  4. #2704
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    So its your body weight x 10 if your cutting... Does it matter how old you are Teenager/adult?? Also is this with just the weights what if i add some cardio?? I just want to make sure i don't go in to starvation mode or start losing muscle that i worked for
    Last edited by Gdogs727; 02-24-2010 at 05:17 PM.

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    I went to my local Sports Authority and they did not have any 1.25 lb plates, so I will look elsewhere for them. Until than would it be o.k. if I used my light set up for my medium day? I am working on dumbbells and my work set is 25 lbs. So should I just lift at 20lbs for my work set on both medium and light days. Keep in mind I am stating the weight for each dumbbell so it would be a total difference of 10 lbs.

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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    From the VERY FIRST POST!

    You shouldn't need more than one minute rest between the warm up sets and you shouldn't need more than one minute thirty seconds between the work sets.
    That's not what I'm asking though. What I want to know is how much rest time should I be putting between exercises. Not sets. Like for example after I finish benches how long is the recommended rest time before I start my next exercise which would be the bent over rows.

    As far as time between work sets go. I read aways back in this thread that it was acceptable to up the rest between sets to 2 minutes if you had to but no more. So I was just curious if it would be considered cheating if I did this but just for certain exercises on the heavy days of weeks 4 and 5 to make sure I get the reps in. Like mainly bench and OHP seem to give me the most problems. So far I've used 1 minute 30 second rests between work sets religiously.

  7. #2707
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    This program is more forgiving when on a cut then ANY of the 5x5s. If you want to run a 5x5 after this program try this, [
    thnx 4 the link........yes i would go for 5X5 after a beginners program........i will follow your program for a cut

    but if i follow rippetoes SS(3X5) after completing your workout i wont see any gains as a novice would?

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    Originally Posted by icanflynucant View Post
    I went to my local Sports Authority and they did not have any 1.25 lb plates, so I will look elsewhere for them. Until than would it be o.k. if I used my light set up for my medium day? I am working on dumbbells and my work set is 25 lbs. So should I just lift at 20lbs for my work set on both medium and light days. Keep in mind I am stating the weight for each dumbbell so it would be a total difference of 10 lbs.
    I did a quick search on google and couldn't find anyone who sold that size individually. You might have to buy a dumbbell set in order to get that size. That's how I got mine.

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    I have been doing this routine for over a month now and find it a bit boring, i will stick at it for a few more months and then work on a split program.

  10. #2710
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    Originally Posted by Gdogs727 View Post
    So its your body weight x 10 if your cutting... Does it matter how old you are Teenager/adult?? Also is this with just the weights what if i add some cardio?? I just want to make sure i don't go in to starvation mode or start losing muscle that i worked for
    If you start to lose 2+ pounds per week you've gone to far.

  11. #2711
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Cardio is aerobic endurance. It wont help anaerobic endurance. Water, carbs, time and patience. This program is running primarily on glucose. That's water and carbs. The secondary system is ATP but because of the rep range it doesn't have the same importance that it would have with the 5x5s. Even still, if you aren't using creatine....START! 5 grams per day just might do the trick. Make sure you are hydrated. Some fruit an hour before a work out and Gatorade during a work out. These are the things that I would try.
    I had been taking creatine, but got advised to stop recently for the purposes of cutting. Do you agree with that advice, or should I not even worry about it since the difference will probably come in the form of water weight?

  12. #2712
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    Originally Posted by DS1111 View Post
    That's not what I'm asking though. What I want to know is how much rest time should I be putting between exercises. Not sets. Like for example after I finish benches how long is the recommended rest time before I start my next exercise which would be the bent over rows.

    As far as time between work sets go. I read aways back in this thread that it was acceptable to up the rest between sets to 2 minutes if you had to but no more. So I was just curious if it would be considered cheating if I did this but just for certain exercises on the heavy days of weeks 4 and 5 to make sure I get the reps in. Like mainly bench and OHP seem to give me the most problems. So far I've used 1 minute 30 second rests between work sets religiously.
    Probably work out to about 2 minutes by the time you get through stripping the bar and setting up the next one. Not more than 3 minutes for sure.

  13. #2713
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    Originally Posted by crymetyme619 View Post
    thnx 4 the link........yes i would go for 5X5 after a beginners program........i will follow your program for a cut

    but if i follow rippetoes SS(3X5) after completing your workout i wont see any gains as a novice would?
    I like Starr's programs better. Just my preference.

  14. #2714
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    I just finished light day, week 3. For some reason, today was too easy. I felt like I barely did anything today. Maybe that is a good thing. :0) I'm looking forward to week 4 and week 5. I'm ready for the pain. :0)
    1-1-2010 239 lbs.
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    Goal is 175lbs

  15. #2715
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    Originally Posted by Cobbs87 View Post
    I had been taking creatine, but got advised to stop recently for the purposes of cutting. Do you agree with that advice, or should I not even worry about it since the difference will probably come in the form of water weight?
    I don't cycle creatine at all. The only problem I've ever seen reported was dehydration. Creatine needs water to get into the muscle and doesn't seem to have a problem taking it from everywhere else. I wouldn't be overly concerned with water weight while cutting unless you're a competitive bodybuilder coming up on a competition.

  16. #2716
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    Finished week 3. (Currently on 4th cycle) I'm starting to experience soreness in the lower back/upper glute area. Never experienced this before. I'm guessing it's from the squats, or the rows...or even possibly the SLDLs

    Out of curiosity, is this soreness my body responding to the higher weight/reps? Because in the past few months of doing this routine I have never experienced this type of soreness so I'm assuming it's not because of my form. (I have also succeeded in increasing weight for every cycle in squat/rows/sldl)

    Also, how can I speed up the healing of muscle soreness? I refuse to skip a workout because of DOMS so I plan to lift in pain if necessary.
    Endorphin rush = feels good man

  17. #2717
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    Originally Posted by beeeyandizzle View Post
    Finished week 3. (Currently on 4th cycle) I'm starting to experience soreness in the lower back/upper glute area. Never experienced this before. I'm guessing it's from the squats, or the rows...or even possibly the SLDLs

    Out of curiosity, is this soreness my body responding to the higher weight/reps? Because in the past few months of doing this routine I have never experienced this type of soreness so I'm assuming it's not because of my form. (I have also succeeded in increasing weight for every cycle in squat/rows/sldl)

    Also, how can I speed up the healing of muscle soreness? I refuse to skip a workout because of DOMS so I plan to lift in pain if necessary.
    You're coming up on 20 weeks of training and fatigue is probably building up even with the minor built in deload. You might want to take a week off after you complete this cycle and see if that helps. If it doesn't then reduce the frequency to twice per per week. Try 2 heavy work outs to start with.

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    Im switching from school back to work on monday, at school I was doin a 4 day split in the mornings before class. Now that im back to work I wont have those times available to me.

    So 2 questions:

    1) Since I will only have time to workout on days off ( Fri, Sat, Sun) should I do just the 2 work days on friday and sunday as you mentioned in your last post.

    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    You're coming up on 20 weeks of training and fatigue is probably building up even with the minor built in deload. You might want to take a week off after you complete this cycle and see if that helps. If it doesn't then reduce the frequency to twice per per week. Try 2 heavy work outs to start with.
    The gym I'll be going to DOESNT have a squat rack or a free weight bench press. This is because it is a 24hr gym and liabilty issues. Its my wifes gym and to add me as a member is only 15 dollars more a month opposed to a min 45 membership anywhere else.

    2) How heavily should I weigh the factor that the gym only has a smith machine to do squats, sldl and bench press.

    Its more economical to do this gym obviously but Im thnking for now, since I just started working out 4 weeks ago that the smith would suffice untill i get to a point where I can say "Its time to get free weight squats, sldl, and bench presses and switch gyms regardless of the cost". Would you agree?

  19. #2719
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    Originally Posted by boconnor811 View Post
    So I just started all pro's program. and am pretty new to weights... I'm going to just be patient and follow it as it's designed. I have it setup for weights Mon, Wed, Fri. I currently play ice hockey every Tues, Thurs morning and once over the weekend for about an hour and half. Is this ample cardio in addition to the program, or should I pursue a more steady effort form of cardio like stationary bike or treadmill?

    Also what types of core exercises are recommended for the off weight days, crunches, plank, any other good choices?
    Any thoughts on this guys? Is this enough cardio? Core exercises to compliment the program?

  20. #2720
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    Originally Posted by boconnor811 View Post
    Any thoughts on this guys? Is this enough cardio? Core exercises to compliment the program?
    already been discussed within the thread several times
    /yawn
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    I have had great gains off of this program. The magic was not changing anything but I understand your choice. Pay the extra 15 and go free weights. Search this thread for "smith" and you will probably run into a post by AP saying bad things about it. Free weight squats are amazing. Favorite exercise next to SLDL.
    Use the search function.

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    Alright ... so I have asked question after question ... researched and thought it all over. I just finished up a program yesterday ... so next week I start this program (exactly as it is outlined, not going to do the 6-10 rep but instead do 8-12 rep). I will spend the week nailing down what my 10 rep max is for each exercise ... kinda a week 0. Attached is a spread sheet I made to make the math easier. Maybe someone can use it, maybe not. Just fill in your working weight in cells B4 through B10 and it will populate the rest of the spread sheets for cycle 1 through 5.

    Two final question ...

    What do you do if your 25% and 50% of working set is less than the 45lb barbell? Are db's acceptable to use for warmup sets in this case?

    Doing the spread sheet made me realize that upping weight percentage wise will ultimately make you fail to progress since it will not be linear. For example ... if your working weight is 100lbs week 1 the progression in weight will be 10%, or 10lbs. But at the end of week 5 that progression is now around 15lbs. Wouldn't it be better to go up 5lbs at a time ... or maybe 10lbs at time from cycle to cycle?
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    Last edited by FloridaGator; 02-27-2010 at 11:34 AM.
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  23. #2723
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FloridaGator View Post
    Alright ... so I have asked question after question ... researched and thought it all over. I just finished up a program yesterday ... so next week I start this program (exactly as it is outlined, not going to do the 6-10 rep but instead do 8-12 rep). I will spend the week nailing down what my 10 rep max is for each exercise ... kinda a week 0. Attached is a spread sheet I made to make the math easier. Maybe someone can use it, maybe not. Just fill in your working weight in cells B4 through B10 and it will populate the rest of the spread sheets for cycle 1 through 5.

    Two final question ...

    What do you do if your 25% and 50% of working set is less than the 45lb barbell? Are db's acceptable to use for warmup sets in this case?

    Doing the spread sheet made me realize that upping weight percentage wise will ultimately make you fail to progress since it will not be linear. For example ... if your working weight is 100lbs week 1 the progression in weight will be 10%, or 10lbs. But at the end of week 5 that progression is now around 15lbs. Wouldn't it be better to go up 5lbs at a time ... or maybe 10lbs at time from cycle to cycle?
    Use the empty bar when the weight is to light.
    You don't add any weight for 5 weeks. Each week you try to add 1 rep!

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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Use the empty bar when the weight is to light.
    You don't add any weight for 5 weeks. Each week you try to add 1 rep!
    Yeah ... typo on my part ... meant to say cycle. WOuldn't it be better to keep the weight progress linear from cycle to cycle?
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  25. #2725
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    All Pro I have followed the program exactly for 4 cycles (previously was doing rippetoes for over a month). I am surprised there hasn’t been more question on your intermediate program.
    I know the beginner program is OK for a cut but would the intermediate program be as good for a cut?
    I have learned a ton from reading this thread but I was curious about the accessory work you cut the weight and do 20 reps what is the science behind this?

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    Originally Posted by FloridaGator View Post
    Yeah ... typo on my part ... meant to say cycle. WOuldn't it be better to keep the weight progress linear from cycle to cycle?
    You aren't seeing my little math trick with the progression because of the way that I set the program up. I did that on purpose. I know that each time you complete 2x12 you're right around 67.5% of your 1 rep max. 67.5 x 1.1= 74.25%. That's about a 10 rep max. The way that I set it up stops most people from thinking about the weight on the bar. That allows them to concentrate on getting the reps with out stressing over how much they're lifting and it allows joints, bones and tendons to get stronger before the weight goes up. Remember that the program was designed for beginners.

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    Originally Posted by slaterpc View Post
    All Pro I have followed the program exactly for 4 cycles (previously was doing rippetoes for over a month). I am surprised there hasn?€™t been more question on your intermediate program.
    I know the beginner program is OK for a cut but would the intermediate program be as good for a cut?
    I have learned a ton from reading this thread but I was curious about the accessory work you cut the weight and do 20 reps what is the science behind this?
    You could probably survive it on a cut but progress would be murder. It will suffer just like any of the other 5x5s. Some people tolerate it well and are willing to put up with the slow progress. Others get very frustrated. The good part is that the high rep assistance work would do just fine. The problems tend to show up in the 3 low rep exercises. If you run a cut for weeks and then the next cycle run a maintenance diet it should work out just fine. The reason you don't see much interest in thintermediatete program is because the over whelming number of posters in this section are beginners.

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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    You aren't seeing my little math trick with the progression because of the way that I set the program up. I did that on purpose. I know that each time you complete 2x12 you're right around 67.5% of your 1 rep max. 67.5 x 1.1= 74.25%. That's about a 10 rep max. The way that I set it up stops most people from thinking about the weight on the bar. That allows them to concentrate on getting the reps with out stressing over how much they're lifting and it allows joints, bones and tendons to get stronger before the weight goes up. Remember that the program was designed for beginners.
    Alright ... gotcha. Learned a lot from this thread, directly and indirectly. Though it is for beginners I don't think it could really be limited to beginners. To me it looks like something to cycle back into every once in a while ... a cycle within cycles if you will.

    First workout is tomorrow as I try to nail down my 10 rep max for each exercise. Will go through the workout MWF this week trying to gauge in on what weight is my start weight and then it is balls to the walls next week. My goal is to get through 5 cycles and then change up the workout! Thanks for the help!
    "The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds." ~Henry Rollins

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    Originally Posted by FloridaGator View Post
    Alright ... gotcha. Learned a lot from this thread, directly and indirectly. Though it is for beginners I don't think it could really be limited to beginners. To me it looks like something to cycle back into every once in a while ... a cycle within cycles if you will.

    First workout is tomorrow as I try to nail down my 10 rep max for each exercise. Will go through the workout MWF this week trying to gauge in on what weight is my start weight and then it is balls to the walls next week. My goal is to get through 5 cycles and then change up the workout! Thanks for the help!
    it way useful

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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    A Simple beginner's Routine
    You will do 3 work outs per week on non consecutive days. The first work out is your heavy work out. The second work out is your medium work out, use 10% less weight for your work sets. The final work out for the week is your lite work out, use 20% less weight.

    Do a lite warm up with 1/4 of your work sets weight. Do a medium warm up with 1/2 of your work sets weight. Do 2 work sets with the same weight. Choose a starting weight and start light.

    These are the seven exercises you will be starting with.

    Squats
    Bench Presses
    Bent-Over Rows
    Overhead Barbell Presses
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
    Barbell Curls
    Calf Raises

    You will be running this program on a five week cycle as follows:
    The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
    The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
    The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
    The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
    The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
    If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10% and

    repeat the cycle. If you didn't get all of the reps on the fifth week then repeat the cycle with the same weight. You shouldn't need more than one minute rest between the warm up sets and you shouldn't need more than one minute thirty seconds between the work sets.
    Do some cardio and abs work on non weight training days.
    nice help

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