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  1. #301
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BYRONPETERSON View Post
    Ive read a lot of your articles Allpro and it bewilders me that you have written this great routine , and half the dumb azzes on here will never even look at it and still keep posting their stupid , my chest wont grow threads . Does it bother you as much as it bothers me that there is so much bs on here ? Especially when there are some proven routines that the 6 pack brigade dont even know exist because they are not in FLEX lol , yet they still spout their useless trash to the people who dont know any better .
    I've been here a loooong time and I've gotten used to it. If it looks to simple and the pro's aren't doing it, if it isn't in a muscle mag many people will turn their nose up at it. Oh well, the proof is in the doing.

  2. #302
    Registered User slimbimjim's Avatar
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    I was really enjoying the routine but my knee started hurting (previous twisted knee injury) so I started a course of acupuncture.

    As a result I have stopped squats and deadlifts but the I am continuing the other exercises and I feel stronger for sure! I'm also swimming a lot so this constitutes my cardio and stretching
    -------------------------------------
    My first journal using AllPro's Beginner Workout Routine

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=112607261

  3. #303
    Registered User esabet's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by BYRONPETERSON View Post
    Ive read a lot of your articles Allpro and it bewilders me that you have written this great routine , and half the dumb azzes on here will never even look at it and still keep posting their stupid , my chest wont grow threads . Does it bother you as much as it bothers me that there is so much bs on here ? Especially when there are some proven routines that the 6 pack brigade dont even know exist because they are not in FLEX lol , yet they still spout their useless trash to the people who dont know any better .
    I second you BYRONPETERSON!

    All Pro's routine at a glance seems very simple and at points it seems to defy most other theories. For example who would have thought that you do lower weights on you second, or even yet, on your third workout day!

    I successfully completed my second cycle and I am for sure feeling better and stronger. Fantastic routine and two thumbs up to All Pro! Thanks a Mill!
    "Being happy doesn't mean every thing's perfect. It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfections."

    "If you look at what you have in life, you'll always have more. If you look at what you don't have in life, you'll never have enough."

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  4. #304
    Registered User kai123's Avatar
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    What to follow after 10 weeks?

    Hi Allpro. I'm 10 weeks away from completing your 2 x 5 week program, but I'm jumping a step ahead when I ask what would be the next work out routine to follow after your 2 x 5 week program? Any suggestions or should I be waiting to update you on how I went with your 10 week program first?

  5. #305
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kai123 View Post
    Hi Allpro. I'm 10 weeks away from completing your 2 x 5 week program, but I'm jumping a step ahead when I ask what would be the next work out routine to follow after your 2 x 5 week program? Any suggestions or should I be waiting to update you on how I went with your 10 week program first?
    It depends on which way you want to go. I love Starr's 5x5s for performance. For speed, strength and power they rock. I like HST's set up for recreational lifters. Try them both. OR you can take this to the next level. Reduce the frequency to twice per week. Both work outs would be done heavy. Reduce the rep range for the 'big 4', squats, bench press, bent over rows and shoulder press to, 4-5-6-7-8 for the 5 week cycle. Drop the warm up sets for the remaining exercises and instead do the standard 8-9-10-11-12 then reduce the weight by half and do a 20 rep set.

  6. #306
    Registered User kai123's Avatar
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    And in terms of part of a beginners diet, what would you suggest and is pasteurized milk any good? Or does it serve no great purpose at all?

    Thanks in advance for your help!

  7. #307
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    Originally Posted by kai123 View Post
    And in terms of part of a beginners diet, what would you suggest and is pasteurized milk any good? Or does it serve no great purpose at all?

    Thanks in advance for your help!
    Basic nutrition would come down to 1gram of protein and 1 gram of carbs per pound of body weight to maintain your weight. Pasteurized milk is fine. Multi vitamin/mineral, creatine, fish oil. These 3 things would be on my supplement list.

  8. #308
    Registered User shakey999's Avatar
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    This program looks perfect for my goals. I've been on rippetoes for about 2 months, and I've made very good progress strength-wise, but not much physique wise.

    All-pro you sound like you really know your stuff. An earlier post said you have other articles, where can these be found? Thanks.

    I think I'm going to have someone in the gym record me doing SL Deadlifts, because I don't want to screw up my lower back.

  9. #309
    Registered User outlaw105w's Avatar
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    well i finally got a gym membership and im going to follow your workout ....we will see what happens .....
    260lbs I will never see you again !!!! Ha Ha ..




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  10. #310
    Registered User shakey999's Avatar
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    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=948812

    Doesn't that article you posted contradict this program?

    (No negs)

  11. #311
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shakey999 View Post
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=948812

    Doesn't that article you posted contradict this program?

    (No negs)
    No. The rule of 90 applies to experienced lifters looking to increase RFD and absolute strength. I've used several different programs that utilize it. Olympic lifting, power lifting and Bill Starr's 636. 3x3 at 90% are what all 3 of those program types have in common. The one that worked the best for size, strength and endurance was Starr's 636 when combined with the 5x5. You would do the 5x5 as the first work out to establish the weights for the 636 and then due the 636 2 days later. It's BRUTAL but effective. Especially for athletes.
    P.S. I wont neg you for questioning what I post but read my sig,
    "everything works for about 6 weeks"
    Unfortunately the more advanced you become the more truthful that statement is.

  12. #312
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shakey999 View Post
    This program looks perfect for my goals. I've been on rippetoes for about 2 months, and I've made very good progress strength-wise, but not much physique wise.

    All-pro you sound like you really know your stuff. An earlier post said you have other articles, where can these be found? Thanks.

    I think I'm going to have someone in the gym record me doing SL Deadlifts, because I don't want to screw up my lower back.
    I've got so much stuff posted you might be better off to search my user name but this is a thread I put together about Bill Starr's programs and I included some of my own in it,
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=809027 My 5x5 thread
    I've posted a lot and I mean a lot of training info but it's spread out in hundreds of threads. 2 of which seem to be on the front page here on a regular basis,
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113460631
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=112773431
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=108261521
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=667998
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=112715701
    I don't know how many of these you want. The posts that create the biggest arguments are the ones with the best training info in them. We all pull out our heavy artillery.

  13. #313
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lajkovin View Post
    The basic is to get someone with good knowlege to train you, after that you must learn how your body works, like this!
    DON'T click on the link!
    He's a scammer!

  14. #314
    Registered User shakey999's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    No. The rule of 90 applies to experienced lifters looking to increase RFD and absolute strength. I've used several different programs that utilize it. Olympic lifting, power lifting and Bill Starr's 636. 3x3 at 90% are what all 3 of those program types have in common. The one that worked the best for size, strength and endurance was Starr's 636 when combined with the 5x5. You would do the 5x5 as the first work out to establish the weights for the 636 and then due the 636 2 days later. It's BRUTAL but effective. Especially for athletes.
    P.S. I wont neg you for questioning what I post but read my sig,
    "everything works for about 6 weeks"
    Unfortunately the more advanced you become the more truthful that statement is.
    Ah right thanks. I'm assuming you have A LOT of experience under your belt. I'll give this program a go tomorrow, hopefully with proper diet and sleep, I'll see good results, lasting longer than just 6 weeks.

    Are you a personal trainer btw?
    Last edited by shakey999; 01-19-2009 at 02:47 PM.

  15. #315
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shakey999 View Post
    Ah right thanks. I'm assuming you have A LOT of experience under your belt. I'll give this program a go tomorrow, hopefully with proper diet and sleep, I'll see good results, lasting longer than just 6 weeks.

    Are you a personal trainer btw?
    I train and train others mostly for sports. I don't train others full time anymore. No money in it at my level. I set the programs up for a local high school. I've been doing it for over 20 years and it all started because I felt sorry for a kid that worked with me part time at a store. I went to watch him play ice hockey. He got abused by the big kids. I convinced him to let me train him. Twelve weeks later he did the abusing. The next thing I know I'm a local legend and all of these high school kids are showing up to watch me play flag football. A short while later I'm training the high school football team in my weight room in my basement. I got a call from the high school and agreed to train the kids FREE OF CHARGE. But it's been a lot of fun and very satisfying. The advantage I have is in the number and variety of kids that want to train. They aren't all athletes so I've learned to construct the programs to suit their goals and their level.
    Trust me, even when you see me ripping someone a new one on the board, I'm having a lot of fun.
    I luv this stuff.

  16. #316
    Registered User shakey999's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    I train and train others mostly for sports. I don't train others full time anymore. No money in it at my level. I set the programs up for a local high school. I've been doing it for over 20 years and it all started because I felt sorry for a kid that worked with me part time at a store. I went to watch him play ice hockey. He got abused by the big kids. I convinced him to let me train him. Twelve weeks later he did the abusing. The next thing I know I'm a local legend and all of these high school kids are showing up to watch me play flag football. A short while later I'm training the high school football team in my weight room in my basement. I got a call from the high school and agreed to train the kids FREE OF CHARGE. But it's been a lot of fun and very satisfying. The advantage I have is in the number and variety of kids that want to train. They aren't all athletes so I've learned to construct the programs to suit their goals and their level.
    Trust me, even when you see me ripping someone a new one on the board, I'm having a lot of fun.
    I luv this stuff.
    That's pretty awesome man, good stuff. Hopefully, when I'm past 50 I'm still training, and helping others train with my experience.

    Thing with boards like this one are, unexperienced lifters are giving varying, contradicting advice. I'm an ectomorph/ 'hard gainer' and by that I mean I have to eat more than most people to gain weight. But that's all good, I've learnt to like food. What I don't find helpful is a bunch of people telling me to to do hypertrophy, strength, HIT specific training. The whole eat dirty/eat anything and everything debate is frustrating too.

    I'll give your program a try and monitor my progress after a month or 2. Thanks.
    Last edited by shakey999; 01-19-2009 at 05:15 PM.

  17. #317
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    Originally Posted by shakey999 View Post
    That's pretty awesome man, good stuff. Hopefully, when I'm past 50 I'm still training, and helping others train with my experience.

    Thing with boards like this one are, unexperienced lifters are giving varying, contradicting advice. I'm an ectomorph/ 'hard gainer' and by that I mean I have to eat more than most people to gain weight. But that's all good, I've learnt to like food. What I don't find helpful is a bunch of people telling me to to do hypertrophy, strength, HIT specific training. The whole eat dirty/eat anything and everything debate is frustrating too.

    I'll give your program a try and monitor my progress after a month or 2. Thanks.
    Well good luck with it. Give it 2 cycles, 10 weeks and keep good notes. including what you eat, when you eat and try to weigh yourself on the same day each week first thing in the morning. You have a fast metabolism if you have to really eat heavy to maintain your weight. Until you become a 'normal' gainer, and with time you will, you might want to try 1.5 grams of protein and 1.5 grams of carbs per day per pound of body weight. A total of probably 20 calories per pound of body weight. I'm stressing diet for you because your diet will make or break any program that you do. That's true for anyone but even more so for you.

  18. #318
    Registered User shakey999's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Well good luck with it. Give it 2 cycles, 10 weeks and keep good notes. including what you eat, when you eat and try to weigh yourself on the same day each week first thing in the morning. You have a fast metabolism if you have to really eat heavy to maintain your weight. Until you become a 'normal' gainer, and with time you will, you might want to try 1.5 grams of protein and 1.5 grams of carbs per day per pound of body weight. A total of probably 20 calories per pound of body weight. I'm stressing diet for you because your diet will make or break any program that you do. That's true for anyone but even more so for you.
    Yep, I'm currently organising my diet on fitday as we speak. I've gained about 10lb of fat and muscle in the last 3 months of just eating on instinct and lifting. But since I'm starting a new routine, I'll make sure that I'm getting the proper calories and macros.

  19. #319
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    I read through all 11 pages and the question was asked, but there was no answer yet.

    I am not too sure if it is a seated or standing overhead press in the routine. However, I do not have the height available in my basement to perform a Standing Overhead Press. Is it over to sub with a seated overhead press or is there as better exercise to sub in?

    Excellent thread by the way! Thanks All Pro
    ***Canadian Crew***

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    The standing overhead press requires a lot more stability, but I'm sure it'll be fine to sub in the seated press. Just remember you won't be able to standing press quite as much as you can seated press.

  21. #321
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    Anyone finish the 5 week workout?

    Could you please post your stats and how much you increased by.

  22. #322
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    Originally Posted by Uh_Oh View Post
    Anyone finish the 5 week workout?

    Could you please post your stats and how much you increased by.
    I finished my 5 Weeks. I am actually on my third cycle, meaning I have finished 10 weeks and I am on my 11th week.

    The stats are very subjective and will not be the same for everyone. It is based on the individual and how much you start with. For example if you successfully complete 100lbs on the first cycle, then the following cycle you are doing 110lb, a 10lb increase. But if you start with 200lbs and successfully complete it then the next cycle you will start with 220lb; a 20lb increase, double the first scenario. Do you see what I mean?

    But in general, this routine works very well. You will be almost guaranteed to be able increase the 10% on the next cycle, if not on all, majority of the exercises at least !! Just follow All Pro's instructions closely and you will see results, guaranteed!

    P.S. Don't forget proper nutrition. I found out no matter what the program, without proper nutrition it will not work!!
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    "If you look at what you have in life, you'll always have more. If you look at what you don't have in life, you'll never have enough."

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  23. #323
    Registered User Uh_Oh's Avatar
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    Wait so you dont increase the weight at all during the whole 5 weeks? How are you supposed to know if you gained any strength at all other than waiting after 5 weeks to see if the routine worked? For instance Rippetoe you usually increase the weight at least once a week.

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    Originally Posted by Uh_Oh View Post
    Wait so you dont increase the weight at all during the whole 5 weeks? How are you supposed to know if you gained any strength at all other than waiting after 5 weeks to see if the routine worked? For instance Rippetoe you usually increase the weight at least once a week.
    You do one more rep each week. Rather than increasing the weight you are increasing the number of reps.
    To make a comparison,
    Rippetoe's
    3x5x100= 1500 pounds
    2x8x90= 1440 pounds / 2x12x90= 2150
    in order to match the same volume you would have to do 144 pounds for 3 sets of 5.
    That's why this program will produce faster size gains. When this program stops working doing one of the 5x5s would be a good choice.
    Rippetoe's program was designed for athletes. If you're training for a sport starting strength or better still Bill Starr's beginners 5x5 would be the correct program. If you're a recreational lifter running a few cycles of this program and then running a few cycles of a 5x5, back and forth, back and forth should work out quite well. The bottom line is don't marry a program and there is no rule that says you can never come back to something you've already done.

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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    You do one more rep each week. Rather than increasing the weight you are increasing the number of reps.
    To make a comparison,
    Rippetoe's
    3x5x100= 1500 pounds
    2x8x90= 1440 pounds / 2x12x90= 2150
    in order to match the same volume you would have to do 144 pounds for 3 sets of 5.
    That's why this program will produce faster size gains. When this program stops working doing one of the 5x5s would be a good choice.
    Rippetoe's program was designed for athletes. If you're training for a sport starting strength or better still Bill Starr's beginners 5x5 would be the correct program. If you're a recreational lifter running a few cycles of this program and then running a few cycles of a 5x5, back and forth, back and forth should work out quite well. The bottom line is don't marry a program and there is no rule that says you can never come back to something you've already done.
    Yeah but with this program you are actually decreasing the weights. It goes hard, medium on the second day, and light on the last day so those numbers are wrong.

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    Originally Posted by Uh_Oh View Post
    Yeah but with this program you are actually decreasing the weights. It goes hard, medium on the second day, and light on the last day so those numbers are wrong.
    Bill Starr's 5x5 uses a heavy, lite, medium set up also. At the end of a week if you add up all of the volume this program is higher than starting strength. That's why I used the heavy, medium, lite set up. If I had set it up with 3 heavy work outs you'd over train for sure. The other part of it is that as you near the end of the cycle you might not be able to complete all of the reps on the heavy work out and I'm not giving you the option of reducing the weight. I know you'll complete all of the reps on the second and third work out unless something has gone tragically wrong.

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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Bill Starr's 5x5 uses a heavy, lite, medium set up also. At the end of a week if you add up all of the volume this program is higher than starting strength. That's why I used the heavy, medium, lite set up. If I had set it up with 3 heavy work outs you'd over train for sure. The other part of it is that as you near the end of the cycle you might not be able to complete all of the reps on the heavy work out and I'm not giving you the option of reducing the weight. I know you'll complete all of the reps on the second and third work out unless something has gone tragically wrong.
    Ahh ok that makes sense. I was a bit worried about the 4 sets of 9 on the deadlift. Isnt deadlifting that much kind of bad for you? I was always told deadlift should be small reps.

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    Originally Posted by Uh_Oh View Post
    Ahh ok that makes sense. I was a bit worried about the 4 sets of 9 on the deadlift. Isnt deadlifting that much kind of bad for you? I was always told deadlift should be small reps.
    They aren't dead lifts. They're stiff leg dead lifts
    HUGE DIFFERENCE!

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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    They aren't dead lifts. They're stiff leg dead lifts
    HUGE DIFFERENCE!
    So on average what are the stat differences between regular deadlifts and stiff leg dead lifts?

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    Originally Posted by Uh_Oh View Post
    So on average what are the stat differences between regular deadlifts and stiff leg dead lifts?
    Half to 3/4 of the weight because 8-12 reps will be lighter than 5 reps.
    You can move a lot of weight with a stiff leg dead lift. That's why I always do them in a higher rep range. If you love your back and want to walk upright I suggest you do the same.

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