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  1. #1
    Fortified With Iron gfundaro's Avatar
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    Some Sciency Stuff!

    I am always on the lookout for info on metabolic functions, ketone use, different pathways, etc. Plus, I'm usually bored, and I like reading this stuff. I know ketosis can be confusing, as can every other process your body uses just to make some durn ATP! Well I found a neato website that you might want to doodle around in. There's a neat chart that illustrates different pathways of blood sugar regulation, a whole section on keto, and even a part on hormones that regulate metabolism! It's not a bbing site, it's a college Biochem. site. I find that learning the basics of how your metabolism functions is key in understanding why you're eating and exercising the way you are!

    http://biocadmin.otago.ac.nz/fmi/xsl...id=5263&-find=

    (Warning: You might find this more boring than I do hehe )
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  2. #2
    Fortified With Iron gfundaro's Avatar
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    Oh, and the difference between normal ketogensis and diabetic ketogenesis are at the bottom, for anyone who's new and/or concerned about 'ketoacidosis' (which only happens in diabetics).
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  3. #3
    Anti-Catabolic HighRevinSi's Avatar
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    Good stuff!

    This is a great site for amino acids
    http://www.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking...etabolism.html

    Fatty Acid Oxidation
    http://www.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking...ml#ketogenesis
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  4. #4
    "Full House" KLMARB's Avatar
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    Very nice. Thank you, now I can show my local medical friends that I am not just some crackpot. They tend to be stuck in the 1990s.
    I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......
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  5. #5
    Fortified With Iron gfundaro's Avatar
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    Nice articles! Glad to help KLMARB People just doubt what they don't understand.
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  6. #6
    Perma-bulker Andrew69's Avatar
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    Good stuff guys...repped on recharge!
    You gotta love how sports will f*ck with ya, make you believe you can come back from an insurmountable deficit and then get kicked right in the nuts when you're almost there - Bluntdogg
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  7. #7
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    if you like that, try this.
    http://www.genome.ad.jp/kegg/pathway.html
    @__@
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  8. #8
    Fortified With Iron gfundaro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by grapemaster View Post
    if you like that, try this.
    http://www.genome.ad.jp/kegg/pathway.html
    O.O


    Oooooh, ahhhhhh
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  9. #9
    Perma-bulker Andrew69's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gfundaro View Post
    I am always on the lookout for info on metabolic functions, ketone use, different pathways, etc. Plus, I'm usually bored, and I like reading this stuff. I know ketosis can be confusing, as can every other process your body uses just to make some durn ATP! Well I found a neato website that you might want to doodle around in. There's a neat chart that illustrates different pathways of blood sugar regulation, a whole section on keto, and even a part on hormones that regulate metabolism! It's not a bbing site, it's a college Biochem. site. I find that learning the basics of how your metabolism functions is key in understanding why you're eating and exercising the way you are!

    http://biocadmin.otago.ac.nz/fmi/xsl...id=5263&-find=

    (Warning: You might find this more boring than I do hehe )
    From the above site..
    "Just as hormones regulate other pathways involved in glucose homeostasis, they also influence ketogenesis both directly and indirectly. In normal ketogenesis the transfer of acetyl-CoA into the mitochondria is controlled by the enzyme carnitine acyl transferase (CAT). The activity of CAT is dependent upon:

    Carnitine

    increased levels of carnitine promote CAT activity"

    So it would seem that increased intake of carnitine (and I would say ALCAR would be perfect) can increase the rate at which acetyl-CoA is transfered into the mitochondria, hence increasing the rate of fat burning.

    HighRevinSi or anyone else see any flaws with that conclusion?
    Is there another rate limiting step there?
    You gotta love how sports will f*ck with ya, make you believe you can come back from an insurmountable deficit and then get kicked right in the nuts when you're almost there - Bluntdogg
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  10. #10
    Registered User chimponarope's Avatar
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    Sounds about right, it's why loads of fat burning supps include carnitine (although usually in pathetic amounts).
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  11. #11
    Anti-Catabolic HighRevinSi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Andrew69 View Post
    From the above site..
    "Just as hormones regulate other pathways involved in glucose homeostasis, they also influence ketogenesis both directly and indirectly. In normal ketogenesis the transfer of acetyl-CoA into the mitochondria is controlled by the enzyme carnitine acyl transferase (CAT). The activity of CAT is dependent upon:

    Carnitine

    increased levels of carnitine promote CAT activity"

    So it would seem that increased intake of carnitine (and I would say ALCAR would be perfect) can increase the rate at which acetyl-CoA is transfered into the mitochondria, hence increasing the rate of fat burning.

    HighRevinSi or anyone else see any flaws with that conclusion?
    Is there another rate limiting step there?
    Carnitine palmitoyltransferase I (CPTI) is the rate limiting enzyme in the transport of Carnitine into the Mitochondria cytosol. The system is backed up here.

    The web is very poor for researching this reaction; nearly every site lists only the RLS for Biosynthesis of Fatty Acids so be careful what you read. But IMO Carnitine supplementation is unnecessary unless you are deficient in dietary intake
    Last edited by HighRevinSi; 08-01-2007 at 05:06 AM.
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  12. #12
    Anti-Catabolic HighRevinSi's Avatar
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    We need to keep this thread bumped!
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  13. #13
    Fortified With Iron gfundaro's Avatar
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    http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=719


    This is a blog, and although I never, ever reference those, this guy gives some interesting information about gluconeogenesis from dietary protein. People ask questions at the bottom, and he answers. He's an MD, so I give him some credit.
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  14. #14
    Fortified With Iron gfundaro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HighRevinSi View Post
    Carnitine palmitoyltransferase I (CPTI) is the rate limiting enzyme in the transport of Carnitine into the Mitochondria cytosol. The system is backed up here.

    The web is very poor for researching this reaction; nearly every site lists only the RLS for Biosynthesis of Fatty Acids so be careful what you read. But IMO Carnitine supplementation is unnecessary unless you are deficient in dietary intake
    Supplementation with most things you find in fat burners is unnecessary. You can liken your metabolic processes to a funnel...you pour stuff in, it comes out steadily. You pour extra stuff in, and it just sits there, because it can only pour out at that speed. Just because you add more of what your body already produces doesn't mean you'll increase the rate of whatever process it's used for. If there's nothing in the funnel, obviously nothing comes out, but like HighRevin said, that only happens when you're deficient.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by Andrew69 View Post
    From the above site..
    "Just as hormones regulate other pathways involved in glucose homeostasis, they also influence ketogenesis both directly and indirectly. In normal ketogenesis the transfer of acetyl-CoA into the mitochondria is controlled by the enzyme carnitine acyl transferase (CAT). The activity of CAT is dependent upon:

    Carnitine

    increased levels of carnitine promote CAT activity"

    So it would seem that increased intake of carnitine (and I would say ALCAR would be perfect) can increase the rate at which acetyl-CoA is transfered into the mitochondria, hence increasing the rate of fat burning.

    HighRevinSi or anyone else see any flaws with that conclusion?
    Is there another rate limiting step there?
    I see you lurking over in the Keto section Funny seeing you here...

    Originally Posted by gfundaro View Post
    http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=719


    This is a blog, and although I never, ever reference those, this guy gives some interesting information about gluconeogenesis from dietary protein. People ask questions at the bottom, and he answers. He's an MD, so I give him some credit.
    Good article. Some interesting stuff. I'm trying to get better with the scientific stuff. I'm more of a do'er, but I'm trying to learn myself some science.
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  16. #16
    Fortified With Iron gfundaro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jked4life View Post
    I see you lurking over in the Keto section Funny seeing you here...



    Good article. Some interesting stuff. I'm trying to get better with the scientific stuff. I'm more of a do'er, but I'm trying to learn myself some science.
    I believe it's incredibly important to know what's really going on! That way you can weed-out the total BS that some people will feed you because they heard it from someone else who didn't know anything either. I'm glad you find it interesting.
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  17. #17
    Registered User daddarioc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gfundaro View Post
    http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=719


    This is a blog, and although I never, ever reference those, this guy gives some interesting information about gluconeogenesis from dietary protein. People ask questions at the bottom, and he answers. He's an MD, so I give him some credit.
    Good find there, some interesting reading (yay, something to do at work! ).
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  18. #18
    Perma-bulker Andrew69's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jked4life View Post
    I see you lurking over in the Keto section Funny seeing you here...
    Why are you stalking me?

    Why wouldnt I be in the keto section....considering I am doing a CKD
    You gotta love how sports will f*ck with ya, make you believe you can come back from an insurmountable deficit and then get kicked right in the nuts when you're almost there - Bluntdogg
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  19. #19
    Fortified With Iron gfundaro's Avatar
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    http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/08366/index.htm

    This is a neat navigational page about carbohydrate, protein, and fat metabolism. This is so everyone knows that little oat flakes don't just float into our muskels hehe
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  20. #20
    Fortified With Iron gfundaro's Avatar
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    This needs a serious bump. I really wish this could become a sticky so people could READ before posting nonsense.
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by gfundaro View Post
    This needs a serious bump. I really wish this could become a sticky so people could READ before posting nonsense.
    Wow that's going to take some serious change in how people use forums
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  22. #22
    Fortified With Iron gfundaro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chimponarope View Post
    Wow that's going to take some serious change in how people use forums
    LOL yea it'd really cut down on the # of new threads every day
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  23. #23
    Anti-Catabolic HighRevinSi's Avatar
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    Good Read for the Science Freaks!

    Ketogenic Diet with Respect to IGF and GLUT expression in the brain for those who are interested. Pretty good read
    Attached Files
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  24. #24
    Anti-Catabolic HighRevinSi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gfundaro View Post
    LOL yea it'd really cut down on the # of new threads every day
    There would be no new threads, lol. I see the same threads every other week!
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  25. #25
    Registered User Atavis's Avatar
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    Thanks for that study.

    I've been researching bulking on keto, and Glut transporters are one of the keys for us to be as efficient as possible.

    Got anything on optimizing Glut4?
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  26. #26
    Evil Twin #2 jaim91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Atavis View Post

    I've been researching bulking on keto, and Glut transporters are one of the keys for us to be as efficient as possible.
    Researching bulking on keto? Research my abs and back yo! lol
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    Registered User Atavis's Avatar
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    Yeah Jaime, you've done very well. I typically, also, do well on Keto for bulking.

    However, I'm trying to find metods to make it even better. Glut4 expression is partly responsible for skeletal muscle glucose uptake irrespective of insulin. That potentially makes it VERY important for bulking on a low carb diet and for anyone who is a type 2 diabetic or insulin resistant.

    I'm doing a bulk now using small amounts of dextrose Pre and Post WO, but am also planning to try another version in the future where I rely upon Glut expression more and utiliyze slower releasing carbs 60 minutes prior to workouts and no carbs PWO. I'm thinking that might work even better than the method I am currently toying with.
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    Originally Posted by Atavis View Post
    Thanks for that study.

    I've been researching bulking on keto, and Glut transporters are one of the keys for us to be as efficient as possible.

    Got anything on optimizing Glut4?
    Its tricky when GLUT4 expression is regulated by insulin levels. To my knowledge, resistance training is known to increase GLUT4 expression. Now with or without sufficient glucose levels I am uncertain but it would seem that you would have to be outside the Ketosis realm to reap the benefits of significantly upregulating GLUT4 expression from resistance training due to requirements for GLUT4's method of action
    Last edited by HighRevinSi; 08-13-2007 at 01:47 PM.
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    You know, I don't think bulking would be as hard as people make it out to be. It could just be me, but I've put on like 5 lbs of LBM since Jan., and still lost 3.7% BF. If I upped my calories or returned to weekly carbups, I'm sure I could do a straight bulk. I didn't really mean to though, so now I'm doing monthly carbups, hopefully I can expedite the fat loss this time :-\
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    Muscle contraction stimulates Glut4 expression as well.

    The results provide evidence that contraction stimulates translocation of GLUT4 in skeletal muscle through a mechanism distinct from that of insulin.
    Contraction stimulates translocation of glucose transporter GLUT4 in skeletal muscle through a mechanism distinct from that of insulin.

    We conclude that the increase in muscle insulin sensitivity of glucose transport after exercise is due to translocation of more GLUT-4 to the cell surface and that this effect is not due to potentiation of insulin-stimulated tyrosine phosphorylation.
    Increased GLUT-4 translocation mediates enhanced insulin sensitivity of muscle glucose transport after exercise.


    There might be something to multiple workouts in day and bodysplits that require many separate sessions...
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