official snatch thread

[athenafootball]

had to make it for such an awesome lift.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exer...hp?Name=Snatch

discuss lift

[PrivateBaldrick]

I have to lol at that BB.com snatch article you linked to. A lot of that is just plain wrong. The guy in the picture should have a much wider grip on the bar, and his elbows should be pointing straight up, not back in the second pic. And how about that breathing instruction! Trust me, you're only going to have time to breath about once during the snatch. It just goes to show that you really need coaching to learn the lifts.

[athenafootball]

yeah those pictures and the explanation is definitely not what a real oly. lifting coach would teach.

good point

[Arlecchino]

I personally thought his feet were somewhat wide during the first phases of the lift as well, although that is just an opinion.

In the pics it really looks like a poorly set-up power snatch, and they could have given far more detail with respect to the unsupported squat under, which is for many the most difficult aspect of the lift.

And many people receive the bar behind the shoulders, at least to a certain degree, and the shoulders do not come into proper alignment with the bar until nearly locking out at the top after rising from the bottom of the snatch.

[PrivateBaldrick]

His feet look okay to me, maybe an inch or two wide. Let's just ignore that link, everybody .

[rogan181]

Snatch Versus The Clean
First it should be noted that the term pull is really a misnomer. Although the term pull is used, it is actually a push into the floor by the leg and hip extensors, which propel the bar upward. However, by convention the term "pull" is used worldwide.

Basic pulling sequence
The basic pulling technique can be described as follows:

Start: Just before the initiation of the lift the:
feet - flat on ground, shoulder width apart with the toes turn slightly out.
the bar is directly over the instep.
arms are straight throughout the pull.
the back is flat or arched throughout the lift.
the head is in a neutral or slightly raised position.
If the arms are not straight and the back is not flat or arched forming a semi-rigid link system, then forces cannot be transmitted efficiently from the leg and hip extensors to the bar.

Lift-off (Figures 1 and 2a - position 1)
At lift-off:
Feet are flat - it is important that the feet remain flat on the ground as long as possible - this facilitates force transmission.
Hips are higher than the knees.
Knees are over and in front of the bar.
Shoulders are over and in front of the bar.
Arms are straight - elbows rotated out and the wrist somewhat flexed - if the elbows are turned out, by internal rotation, during the pull it is much more difficult to flex the elbow - thus the bar remains closer to the body. Flexing the wrist or attempting to flex the wrist during the pull also aids in keeping the bar closer and it makes it harder to externally rotate the elbow.
The head is in a neutral or slightly raised position.
Bar at knees (Figures 1 and 2a - position 2)
As the bar is lifted to the knees:
The feet are flat.
The hips are higher than the knees - to this point there has been little hip extension - the upward movement of the bar is largely performed by extension of the knee.
The knees are behind the bar.
The shoulders are over the bar. A line dropped from the front of the shoulder will pass in front of the bar. 5.

The arms are straight, elbows are turned out and the wrists are flexed.
The head remains in a neutral or slightly raised position.
The lifter bar complex has moved upward and back completing the "first pull".

Bar at mid thigh (Figures 1 and 2a - position 3)
A "transition" from the bar at the knee until the mid-thigh position, results from a forward movement and/or re-bending of the knees such that an un-weighting effect occurs. The forward movement/re-bending of the knees is typically referred to as the "double knee bend" (DKB), the first knee bend occurring at the initiation of the lift. The DKB is largely a result of the backward-upward movement of the trunk during the transition, which contributes to a fixation or more typically a forward movement of the knees. Re-bending of the knees is often as great as 10-20? (Bartonietz 1996, Roman and Treskov 1983). Although not intentional, there is usually a decrease or plateau in bar velocity during this transition as the knees are re-bent and the body is re-aligned for greater vertical force production (Bartonietz, 1996, Enoka 1979, Garhammer and Gregor 1992). A marked drop in bar velocity could be a result of the lifter starting the bar off the floor too rapidly by raising the hips too fast or as a result of weak hip extensors (Bartonietz 1996). It is critical that the DKB take place rapidly as this will reduce the drop in velocity during un-weighting and enhances the efficiency of the re-alignment as a result of a stretch-shortening effect (Bobbert et al. 1996, Enoka 1979, Kuahanen et al. 1984, Reiser et al. 1996).


At mid-thigh:
The feet are still flat.
The hips are now behind the bar but are now over the knees as a result of the double knee bend. The trunk is nearly vertical.
The knees are now in front of the bar.
The shoulders have moved directly over or behind the bar.
The arms are straight, elbows out and wrist flexed.
The second pull can be effectively initiated from this position. This mid-thigh position is crucial for effective lifting, as it is the position, which allows the highest maximum force and rate of force production to be achieved.

Second pull (Figures 1 and 2a - position 4)
During the second pull, peak force, rate of force development, power and bar velocity are at their highest values. It should be noted that the duration of the second pull is negatively correlated with the efficiency and success of a lift (Kuahanen et al 1984), thus, explosiveness is a primary consideration.


We can observe that during the second pull:
the hips move into extension.
the shoulders move up into a shrug.
The lifter moves onto the balls of the feet by plantar flexion. The degree to which plantar flexion occurs is to an extent a function of the individual lifter. There is some controversy among coaches as to the benefit of plantar flexion - there is evidence that plantar flexion can add to the final bar velocity (Weide 1989, Bartonietz 1996, Bartonietz 2000), however it may take more time to plantar flex and then move the feet into a position so that the bar can be caught. Most lifters do plantar flex and this technique would seem advantageous for sports other than weightlifting as it is similar to the plantar flexion taking place in many performances such as jumping, blocking, and pushing off.
Arms are still straight, elbows are out and the wrists attempting to flex.
Head is neutral or slightly raised.
Foot centre of pressure
(Image: Foot) Lift-Off
Knee
Mid-Thigh
Shoulder Shrug - Plantar Flexion


By using a force plate and appropriate calculations the centre of pressure on the foot can be ascertained. Note at lift-off (1) the centre of pressure tends to be forward as the bar moves to the knee (2) the centre of pressure moves back toward the heel. During the double knee bend the centre of pressure moves to the mid-foot (3). If the centre of pressure moves too far forward during the DKB then the lifter often rises onto the balls of the feet too early, which results in an early thigh brush (or bang), and the bar moves markedly away from the lifter as a result of the additional horizontal force. During the second pull, as extension of the body takes place, the centre of pressure moves forward and onto the balls of the feet (4) as plantar flexion takes place.

[athenafootball]

Snatch Versus The Clean
First it should be noted that the term pull is really a misnomer. Although the term pull is used, it is actually a push into the floor by the leg and hip extensors, which propel the bar upward. However, by convention the term "pull" is used worldwide.

Basic pulling sequence
The basic pulling technique can be described as follows:

Start: Just before the initiation of the lift the:
feet - flat on ground, shoulder width apart with the toes turn slightly out.
the bar is directly over the instep.
arms are straight throughout the pull.
the back is flat or arched throughout the lift.
the head is in a neutral or slightly raised position.
If the arms are not straight and the back is not flat or arched forming a semi-rigid link system, then forces cannot be transmitted efficiently from the leg and hip extensors to the bar.

Lift-off (Figures 1 and 2a - position 1)
At lift-off:
Feet are flat - it is important that the feet remain flat on the ground as long as possible - this facilitates force transmission.
Hips are higher than the knees.
Knees are over and in front of the bar.
Shoulders are over and in front of the bar.
Arms are straight - elbows rotated out and the wrist somewhat flexed - if the elbows are turned out, by internal rotation, during the pull it is much more difficult to flex the elbow - thus the bar remains closer to the body. Flexing the wrist or attempting to flex the wrist during the pull also aids in keeping the bar closer and it makes it harder to externally rotate the elbow.
The head is in a neutral or slightly raised position.
Bar at knees (Figures 1 and 2a - position 2)
As the bar is lifted to the knees:
The feet are flat.
The hips are higher than the knees - to this point there has been little hip extension - the upward movement of the bar is largely performed by extension of the knee.
The knees are behind the bar.
The shoulders are over the bar. A line dropped from the front of the shoulder will pass in front of the bar. 5.

The arms are straight, elbows are turned out and the wrists are flexed.
The head remains in a neutral or slightly raised position.
The lifter bar complex has moved upward and back completing the "first pull".

Bar at mid thigh (Figures 1 and 2a - position 3)
A "transition" from the bar at the knee until the mid-thigh position, results from a forward movement and/or re-bending of the knees such that an un-weighting effect occurs. The forward movement/re-bending of the knees is typically referred to as the "double knee bend" (DKB), the first knee bend occurring at the initiation of the lift. The DKB is largely a result of the backward-upward movement of the trunk during the transition, which contributes to a fixation or more typically a forward movement of the knees. Re-bending of the knees is often as great as 10-20? (Bartonietz 1996, Roman and Treskov 1983). Although not intentional, there is usually a decrease or plateau in bar velocity during this transition as the knees are re-bent and the body is re-aligned for greater vertical force production (Bartonietz, 1996, Enoka 1979, Garhammer and Gregor 1992). A marked drop in bar velocity could be a result of the lifter starting the bar off the floor too rapidly by raising the hips too fast or as a result of weak hip extensors (Bartonietz 1996). It is critical that the DKB take place rapidly as this will reduce the drop in velocity during un-weighting and enhances the efficiency of the re-alignment as a result of a stretch-shortening effect (Bobbert et al. 1996, Enoka 1979, Kuahanen et al. 1984, Reiser et al. 1996).


At mid-thigh:
The feet are still flat.
The hips are now behind the bar but are now over the knees as a result of the double knee bend. The trunk is nearly vertical.
The knees are now in front of the bar.
The shoulders have moved directly over or behind the bar.
The arms are straight, elbows out and wrist flexed.
The second pull can be effectively initiated from this position. This mid-thigh position is crucial for effective lifting, as it is the position, which allows the highest maximum force and rate of force production to be achieved.

Second pull (Figures 1 and 2a - position 4)
During the second pull, peak force, rate of force development, power and bar velocity are at their highest values. It should be noted that the duration of the second pull is negatively correlated with the efficiency and success of a lift (Kuahanen et al 1984), thus, explosiveness is a primary consideration.


We can observe that during the second pull:
the hips move into extension.
the shoulders move up into a shrug.
The lifter moves onto the balls of the feet by plantar flexion. The degree to which plantar flexion occurs is to an extent a function of the individual lifter. There is some controversy among coaches as to the benefit of plantar flexion - there is evidence that plantar flexion can add to the final bar velocity (Weide 1989, Bartonietz 1996, Bartonietz 2000), however it may take more time to plantar flex and then move the feet into a position so that the bar can be caught. Most lifters do plantar flex and this technique would seem advantageous for sports other than weightlifting as it is similar to the plantar flexion taking place in many performances such as jumping, blocking, and pushing off.
Arms are still straight, elbows are out and the wrists attempting to flex.
Head is neutral or slightly raised.
Foot centre of pressure
(Image: Foot) Lift-Off
Knee
Mid-Thigh
Shoulder Shrug - Plantar Flexion


By using a force plate and appropriate calculations the centre of pressure on the foot can be ascertained. Note at lift-off (1) the centre of pressure tends to be forward as the bar moves to the knee (2) the centre of pressure moves back toward the heel. During the double knee bend the centre of pressure moves to the mid-foot (3). If the centre of pressure moves too far forward during the DKB then the lifter often rises onto the balls of the feet too early, which results in an early thigh brush (or bang), and the bar moves markedly away from the lifter as a result of the additional horizontal force. During the second pull, as extension of the body takes place, the centre of pressure moves forward and onto the balls of the feet (4) as plantar flexion takes place.

awseome.. reps

[rogan181]

Vertical force
Use of a force plate will also allow the measurement of vertical ground reaction forces. It should be remembered that the "pulling" movements are actually a push into the ground. This force, largely created by the leg and hip extensors, is transmitted through a semi-rigid link system consisting of the mid-section, trunk and arms to the bar.

As can be observed in Figure 4, (1-2) the first pull in which the bar moves from the floor to just above the knees is characterised by an initial rise in force followed by a relatively steady force output. During the transition (2-3) there is an un-weighting phase as the knees are re-bent. During the 2nd pull (3-4) there is a sharp increase in force until the lifter drops under the bar for the catch. Even at maximum weights the entire lift should be completed in about 1 second or less.

Figure 4

(Image: Vertical force graph)
Elite lifters will typically complete the transition phase quicker than un-skilled lifters. A faster transition (double knee bend) among skilled lifters likely results from the ability to apply eccentric force at faster rates or by applying force at greater magnitudes (Kauhanen et al. 1984). Furthermore, the elite skilled lifter can accelerate the bar faster during the subsequent concentric phase. In analysing (both qualitative and quantitative) over 1000 lifts from national (USA and British) and international contests it is quite clear that the majority of high calibre and elite lifters (99% +) placing in the top 5 of these contests use a double knee bend pulling technique.

Most elite lifters use a rather pronounced "double knee bend" or stretch shortening during the transition, with a final knee angle of about 130-140?, the final knee angle in the snatch typically being somewhat smaller (greater knee bend) then in the clean (Bartonietz 1996, Reiser et al. 1996). Some elite lifters use a much shallower double knee bend with greater final knee angles. It is not completely known why this difference occurs; however, it may be due to differences in elastic properties or muscle activation abilities. Interestingly, the authors have observed that a shallower DNB/SSC tends to be characteristic of lifters in lighter classes, particularly in the clean (< 85 kg).

Vertical force - Straight pull
The vertical forces resulting from a double knee bend technique can be contrasted with a straight pull in which there is no double knee bend and often there is considerable arm pull. Using data from our laboratory (Figure 5) it can be noted that the greatest forces occur shortly after lift-off and the force often decreases markedly thereafter. This type of pull results in smaller magnitudes of peak force and peak rate of force development and often takes a longer to complete, thus reducing the effectiveness of the pulling movement.

Figure 5


(Image: Vertical force straight pull graph)
Sequence of a clean
In this sequence (Figure 6) of the clean we can clearly observe the double knee bend occurring. The various positions previously discussed can be noted in this series of photos. Position 1 corresponds to lift-off at which the centre of foot pressure is forward near the ball of the foot. At position 2 the bar has moved to the knees and the centre of pressure has moved toward the heel. Position 3 corresponds to the double knee bend position at which the bar has moved to the mid-thigh, the knee angle here will be about 130-140? and the trunk is nearly vertical. This position is the strongest of the entire pulling sequence and is crucial for high-level success. In position 4 we can observe complete extension after which the lifter moves under the bar.

Figure 6
Technique Analysis - Nasirinia ShahinIRI, 85kg, Clean -215kg



Sequence of a snatch
This sequence (Figure 7) depicts a snatch. Note that the positions attained during the pull are similar to those attained during the pull for the clean. Some differences occur as a result of hand spacing. For example in the double knee phase the bar would touch the lifters upper thigh rather than mid-thigh.

It is important that the bar does actually touch the thigh during the double knee bend. This is because leaving the bar in front of the thigh creates a position from which less force can be exerted. Furthermore, the further the bar is in front of the lifter?s centre of mass, then extra energy must be expended in order to bring the bar back in line so that it can be successfully caught on the shoulders or overhead. While brushing the thigh (not a drag or bang) may increase the friction encountered during the pull - this is more than offset by the ability to accelerate the bar from the DKB position.

Figure 7



Squat snatch bar trajectory (Figure 8)
The vertical and horizontal displacement of the bar forward and back can be seen by observing the bar from one end. This (Figure 8) was generated from data collected using a V-scope (Lipmann Electronics, Wingate Israel). The V-scope is an instrument that uses an ultra-sound/infra-red technology, which allows accurate tracking of the bar path. In this view of a snatch, the lifter would be facing to the right. Note that during the pull to the upper thigh that both the bar and lifter would move up and back.

As the 2nd pull is initiated the bar moves away from the lifter because it brushes the thigh and also because the lifter moves to the balls of the feet at the end of the 2nd pull After complete extension the lifter moves under the bar and catches it overhead. Figure 9 is a tracing of the bar path of a squat snatch in which the lifter descends into a full squat position when catching the bar overhead. In a "power snatch" the weight is pulled high enough so that a squat under the bar is not necessary and the bar is caught overhead with the tops of the thighs above parallel. Compared to a power snatch, note that the bar travels a shorter distance vertically, due to the weight of the bar, and also travels further downward as the lifter catches the bar in a full squatting position.

Peak force occurs just after the initial thigh contact and peak velocity shortly after peak force; peak power typically occurs in between peak force and peak velocity.



Figure 8: Bar Trajectory - Snatch
V-scope bar tracing - lifter facing to the right

[rogan181]

The Power Snatch execution checklist

Hands placed close to end of bar
Feet flat, shoulder width apart, toes slightly out
Bar touching shins
Arms straight
Chest up and out, shoulder blades together
Head facing forward
Back straight
Hips low with thighs parallel to floor
Bar pulled slowly off floor in a straight line
Arms straight
Pull done with legs and hips
Knees move back and return under the bar
Back straight
Athlete bends at hips
Arms straight
Bar slightly over knees and touching thighs
Legs and hips extend
Shoulder shrug
Pull with arms
Bar remains close to body
Legs spread slightly to side
Athlete bends at hips and knees
Bar pulled over the head










1Step One
Step to the bar and get positioned. Place your feet hip-width apart, with the bar directly over the balls of your feet. Set the bar right over the point where your toes meet the rest of your foot.

2Step Two
Assume the starting position. Bend your knees, lower your hips and grip the bar with your hands. The hands should be in a wide position - wider than shoulder width - so that you can do a full squat with the bar at arm's length overhead. "Comfort is the key. Drop the hips as though you were going to sit in a chair."

3Step Three
Start the lift. Keep your back slightly arched and push your feet as though you were trying to push through the floor. "As you lift off of the floor, you want your hips, shoulders and the bar to all come up together at the same rate."

4Step Four
Keep the bar as close to your legs as possible as you raise the bar past your knees. "The bar should brush your thighs as you lift it," says Barnett.

5Step Five
Drive your legs and lift your body to a complete extension, in a jumping motion, as the bar reaches mid-thigh. Prepare to extend the bar overhead.

6Step Six
Shrug your shoulders back and start to bring the bar up and overhead. Lift your elbows out to the side and keep them above the bar for as long as possible. "Propulsion and explosion are the keys as you lift the bar."

7Step Seven
Pull your body under the bar when you have reached the point where it is high enough to control. This is a quick move that gets your body in position to finish the lift.

8Step Eight
Catch the bar and drop under it, in a squat position with your legs bent and the bar overhead.

9Step NineLock your arms so that the bar is overhead, and rise up out of the squat position to finish the lift. "Once you get up, make sure your feet are on line. Wait for the referee to give you the down signal and then set the bar back down."

Tips & Warnings
The key to this lift is in the quick "flip" when the bar reaches shoulder height. A fast lifter who can get under the bar is in good position to lift the weight.
Make sure you feel comfortable before you lift. That's half the battle.
This is a very difficult procedure, so be sure to use the proper technique.
Attempt this lift only with proper supervision.
Lift only weights that are within your capabilities.
Body extended, bar held high overhead

[athenafootball]

damn, where did you get all this.

great contribution!

ill rep you again

[gobbles]

wow, rogan181 posted alot of info, repped

[rogan181]

found it all on google, 3 different websites to be exact

[athenafootball]

yeah this section is starting to get good gobbles

[gobbles]

yeah this section is starting to get good gobbles

Yeah, its got quite a bit of action allready! *sniff* and to think we were some of the first here, I'm heading to the gym in 5 minutes, I'll be back at around 8(the time here when I get back) I bet by that time we'll have tons more posts and new threads, catch you later.

[athenafootball]

cya later man

OLYMPIC SECTION!!

[rogan181]

we need am oderator in here to clean this stuff up, look aroudn at all these threads...do we want these to be the first pages in this new forum of ours?

its all people like wow this is cool and **** haha, theres liek one good peice of advice per thread so far...and we need all the "official" threads to be stickied at the top i say...

EDIT: oh yea after doing all this stuff i just went donstairs to try and nail a snatch with 35s on the sides of my bar oh **** thats 115 not 105! alright so anyways, i almost had it i was liek a half inch away from lockign out and coudlnt get it...i wasnt wearing shoes though and have no mats so i was being real careful adn goign a little to slow, so im sure ill have it in a few days

[gobbles]

we need am oderator in here to clean this stuff up, look aroudn at all these threads...do we want these to be the first pages in this new forum of ours?

its all people like wow this is cool and **** haha, theres liek one good peice of advice per thread so far...and we need all the "official" threads to be stickied at the top i say...

EDIT: oh yea after doing all this stuff i just went donstairs to try and nail a snatch with 35s on the sides of my bar oh **** thats 115 not 105! alright so anyways, i almost had it i was liek a half inch away from lockign out and coudlnt get it...i wasnt wearing shoes though and have no mats so i was being real careful adn goign a little to slow, so im sure ill have it in a few days

I'll be mod! ha, I'm back, that post is true, we need to get some stuff stickied, I just thought of a new thread idea, Hope it turns out well

[athenafootball]

i'd like to be a mod. i think i've been around long enough to deserve it i think

idk we'll see what a real mod has to say about it