Usnic Acid FAQ

**Complete Muscle** · 05-23-2002, 10:12 AM

I would like to first state for the record that I am not some kind of authority on usnic acid! I am a body building/fitness enthusiast and entrepreneur. I have recently become certified as a Personal Trainer and Sports Nutritionist, but that�s a far cry from being a chemist or biologist. This information is based on the best of my knowledge and research but is not guaranteed to be accurate. You are ultimately responsible for your own health and fitness!

1. What is usnic acid? What does it do in the body?

Usnic acid is a naturally occurring metabolite found in certain lichen species and in kombucha tea. It has been shown to uncouple oxidative phosphorylation in much the same way DNP does. This process results in an inefficient use of energy by the body. In response the body steps up ATP production, increases it�s metabolism, and burns a tremendous amount of extra calories.

2. What is the approximate half-life of usnic acid?

Estimations are approximately 6-10 hours. Once inside your bloodstream, usnic acid is highly protein-bound at a level of approximately 99.2%, giving usnic acid good bioavailability and a long half life.

3. Are there any side effects or contraindications with usnic acid?

There are 61 published abstracts on usnic acid. To my knowledge it is not reported to have any irreversible or untoward side effects. That said, I would exercise caution when trying any new supplement. Anyone with any medical condition should see a physician before using this product, including but not limited to: pregnant or lactating, high blood pressure, diabetes, heart condition, thyroid problems, liver disease. Do not take with any prescription medication or OTC product. If any symptoms occur, discontinue use immediately and seek the advice of a medical professional.

4. How much do I take? What�s the recommended dosage?

The recommended dose is from 250mg to 1000mg a day depending on body weight. Begin with 250mg a day for the first 3 days to assess tolerance. Then gradually move up from there

5. How long is too long for a Usnic Acid �cycle�? How long of a recovery time is recommended between cycles?

Usnic Acid is the only herbal ingredient shown to increase chemical thermogenesis on a prolonged basis. Theoretically there is no on-off cycling needed. However I recommend caution in this area - I personally am using a 2 week on/ 2 week off approach.

6. Are there any additional supplements/nutrients recommended to take during/after cycle?

You do not need additional supplementation to enhance the effects of usnic acid. A healthy balanced nutritional foundation is highly recommended along with a good multi-vitamin/multi-mineral supplement. It may be beneficial to take increased anti-oxidants such as Alpha Lipoic Acid.

7. Is it necessary or beneficial to do cardio routines during a usnic acid cycle?

I strongly recommend that you give your body a chance to respond to the usnic acid before deciding how much if at all you wish to add aerobic activity into your training routine.

8. What kind of diet should I eat while taking usnic acid? How many calories? Protein/ carbohydrate/ fat ratios?

Again a healthy balanced nutritional foundation is recommended. With usnic acid supplementation weight loss occurs even when energy (food) intake remains the same because extra calories are chemically released as heat. I strongly recommend that you give your body a chance to respond to the usnic acid before changing your diet. Studies show that uncouplers utilize fat as the dominant source of calories (95% from fat, 3% from carbohydrates and 2% from protein).

This FAQ brought to you by www.usnicacid.com

**Smokinghawk** · 05-23-2002, 12:08 PM

so usnic acid has over 99% bioavailability? That ought to put a stop to the people lemanting, "yeah, but where can I get sodium usniate instead?"

Good stuff. I would add a LOT stronger envouragement to use antioxidants, though, esp. vitamins E and C, green tea, berries/fruit antioxidants, etc.

**princessbigman** · 05-23-2002, 12:10 PM

does it cause water retention

**Complete Muscle** · 05-23-2002, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Smokinghawk
so usnic acid has over 99% bioavailability?......

Not exactly: The 99.2% number refers to being protein bound once in the bloodstream. I have read it is around 70% bioavailable.

**OVRTrainer** · 05-23-2002, 01:52 PM

BUMP...Great post!

All questions and advice about UA should be added to this thread!

I think this is deserving of "STICKY" notoriety...Being that the supplement (scam) company B.S. is still a sticky, it would be a travesty to allow a valuable post such as this get lost in the shuffle.

**Dann** · 05-23-2002, 02:11 PM

will usnic Acid make you tired and lethargic all day long juts like DNP, and will it rasie your body temp so much to make you sweat all day liek DNP??

Dann

**Rlang** · 05-23-2002, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Dann
will usnic Acid make you tired and lethargic all day long juts like DNP, and will it rasie your body temp so much to make you sweat all day liek DNP??

Dann

"It has been shown to uncouple oxidative phosphorylation in much the same way DNP does."

Man I get sick of seeing UA compared with DNP, the two are NOTHING alike. To all those thinking you can take UA and get the effects of DNP without having to take DNP, NO YOU CAN NOT. I took UA at between 1-2 g /day, and got NOTHING (Did 2 weeks). I'm pretty immune to alot of stuff it seems though, but I've also talked with some others who ran high dosages and they agreed with me (not on this board where several are trying to sell it). I've written it off as useless, and I've been in the game for quite a while, and seen a lot come and go. I would feel comfortable saying 1 vivarin 3 times a day is more effective.

Right now I'm on a 14 day cycle of DNP (don't PM me asking where I get it, I won't tell you), and there is NO comparison. Not even a little bit. So in answer, no UA will NOT make you tired all day like DNP, nor will you lose 1 lb of fat per day, or even 1/2, or a 1/4. Face it, there is $$$bookoo bucks$$$$ spent on developing fat burners every year. UA is NOT some revolutionary compound that has been over looked for so long, it's just not effective. With what's out right now it goes 1)DNP 2)Clen-T3 (maybe Bromo here too) 3) E/C, end of story. Please someone selling this stuff provide a peer-reviewed study on UAs effect on weight loss, and then explain why if it is so effective it's only being sold by a few "individuals" who are not even in the business. Whatever was in LIPO, was not just having UA in it. And LIPO is GONE, let go. I suspect there was more to LIPO than the label stated.

added: And yes, I've taken LIPO, and while it also is not comparable to DNP, I do think it was an effective accelerator of fat loss. UA I would not make that statement about.

**AnthonyGoldsGym** · 05-23-2002, 04:38 PM

I plan on trying UA but don't want to give up ECA because it effectively lifts my mood. Can UA and ECA be safely stacked together?

**Smokinghawk** · 05-23-2002, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by AnthonyGoldsGym
I plan on trying UA but don't want to give up ECA because it effectively lifts my mood. Can UA and ECA be safely stacked together?

Absolutely!

And true, UA is not like DNP. It's a milder effect. While DNP causes a 60% increase in metabolism, my rate of fat loss on UA at a similar diet suggests a 10-15% increase--which is still DAMNED good, considering ECA is about a 5% increase.

**AnthonyGoldsGym** · 05-23-2002, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Smokinghawk

Absolutely!

And true, UA is not like DNP. It's a milder effect. While DNP causes a 60% increase in metabolism, my rate of fat loss on UA at a similar diet suggests a 10-15% increase--which is still DAMNED good, considering ECA is about a 5% increase.

Thanks bro...WYD would've lost a sale.

**Rlang** · 05-23-2002, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Smokinghawk

While DNP causes a 60% increase in metabolism, my rate of fat loss on UA at a similar diet suggests a 10-15% increase--which is still DAMNED good, considering ECA is about a 5% increase.

Where does this number come from? Any peer reviewed research? I've never come acrosss anything verifying this.

**Smokinghawk** · 05-23-2002, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by Rlang

Where does this number come from? Any peer reviewed research? I've never come acrosss anything verifying this.

Absolutely! (I try to be careful and only assert things that I can verify, or else I admit they're just my opinions).

The DNP study, done on rats rather thaq humans (obviously!), can be read at http://www.ebec2000.com/abstracts/056.htm including its conclusion, "DNP (30 mg/kg po) caused sustained increases (< 64%, n=8) in basal metabolic rate in rats > 4.5 hours. These findings confirm that DNP effectively increases metabolic rate in-vitro and in-vivo and provides a guide to the anticipated pharmacological effects of the new generation of specific uncoupling agents."

So they measured it at 64% increase.

The usnic acid figures have no verification, which I specified when I first wrot it.

**Rlang** · 05-23-2002, 10:35 PM

No no no. I never questioned the DNP number, if fact there is published research that show an increase even 3 times higher than that. My question was your 15% for UA because I happen to know that such information is not out there. Do you think when someone takes E/C they can "tell" their metabolism has increased by 5%? Absolutely not. So taking UA, you know your metabolism so well that you're able to truthfully deduce that ther is approxamately a 15% increase in your metabolism? No, that number came right out of your butt. 3 times more effective than E/C, that is one of the most misleading things I've read since I saw a Myostatin Blocker Ad. How many e/c stacks are out there and actually aid in fat loss? Thousands. UA? Nothing. It's not some novel compund recently discovered. It dissappeared way back when becasue it's a waste, yet E/C is, and always will be around and useful. SO in conclusion, you did not pass off 15% as an opinion, it came out of thin air, and is backed by absolutely nothing.

**Bobo** · 05-23-2002, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by Rlang
No no no. I never questioned the DNP number, if fact there is published research that show an increase even 3 times higher than that. My question was your 15% for UA because I happen to know that such information is not out there. Do you think when someone takes E/C they can "tell" their metabolism has increased by 5%? Absolutely not. So taking UA, you know your metabolism so well that you're able to truthfully deduce that ther is approxamately a 15% increase in your metabolism? No, that number came right out of your butt. 3 times more effective than E/C, that is one of the most misleading things I've read since I saw a Myostatin Blocker Ad. How many e/c stacks are out there and actually aid in fat loss? Thousands. UA? Nothing. It's not some novel compund recently discovered. It dissappeared way back when becasue it's a waste, yet E/C is, and always will be around and useful. SO in conclusion, you did not pass off 15% as an opinion, it came out of thin air, and is backed by absolutely nothing.

The comparisons of DNP to UA are by mechanism and side effets only. In no way are they realted in terms of results. Its like saying PH's (not 1-test) are comparable to AAS....And I think we know the answre to that. Usnic acid has been reported by users to have side effects (mainly higher temp, increased sweating and lethargy) that resemble DNP...Nobdy in their right mind would say it has the same results. Comparisons have nothing to do with results here, only side effects....And thats not even in all cases...

**Layne_Norton** · 05-24-2002, 07:01 AM

does anyone know if it is safe to just swallow UA powder or does it have to be pilled?

i just got some powder but i havent got my capper yet and im anxious to try it out.

thx

**Smokinghawk** · 05-24-2002, 07:08 AM

Of COURSE I pulled the number "right out of my butt." You didn't read where I SAID so the first time? Man, I thought you were questioning the DNP numbers, but instead you were asking for a source on something I *told* you I was only guessing at, and then proclaiming, "You were obviously only guessing at it!" Gee, Sherlock--I said it was a personal experience guess and then you PROVED I was only guessing--what was your first clue, man? You proved I really meant what I said! Amazing!

I told you from the start I am only estimating based on my experiences--no, nobody has done a peer-reviewed study on "Smokinghawks personal guesstimations with UA."

So how do I come up with a number at all? AS I SAID (but you have to read during this clever sleuthing of yours), it's based on measuring the outcomes in fat loss contrasted between ECA and UA on an otherwise similar diet program.

To sum: I lost about 3 times the fat per time period using ECA+UA than ECA alone.

No run along and demand peer-reviewed sources to prove it when someone says "I like blondes more."

**RockECU** · 05-24-2002, 08:14 AM

for me i'd say it was about 4 to 1.. eca doesn't do crap for me.. as far as eca/ecy/ncy's go.. they don't affect metabolism/fat burning NEARLY as much as an uncoupler does..

**WHOSYOURDADDY02** · 05-24-2002, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Layne_Norton
does anyone know if it is safe to just swallow UA powder or does it have to be pilled?

i just got some powder but i havent got my capper yet and im anxious to try it out.

thx

Yes - there shouldn't be a problem doing this with your powder. Most of it not all pills that you receive can be opened up and taken raw. Many people who have problems taking pills have to do this. Sometimes people try to mix it up with yogurt and other foods. Just make sure your measuring out about the weight that you need so you don't take too much -- especially now while you are assessing your tolerance. By the way, how did go with the UA? Was there any problems receiving it? Did it come quickly? Thanks

**Layne_Norton** · 05-24-2002, 11:58 AM

whosyourdaddy

Thanks again for the UA. It came very quick, quick than i thought. im going to make some pill but i just tried some powder just to try and it went down ok.

ill start a 2 week cycle in a few weeks, ill keep you posted on results

thx again

**Gonzo** · 05-24-2002, 03:11 PM

Whosyourdaddy - Syntrax is possibly selling their left over sodium usniate. If someone were to buy it in bulk, I would definitely buy some off them. It works better than usnic acid.

**RockECU** · 05-24-2002, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Gonzo
Whosyourdaddy - Syntrax is possibly selling their left over sodium usniate. If someone were to buy it in bulk, I would definitely buy some off them. It works better than usnic acid.

where have you rea/heard it works better than usnic acid.. have you tried them both??

**Rlang** · 05-24-2002, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by Smokinghawk
you were asking for a source on something I *told* you I was only guessing at, and then proclaiming, "You were obviously only guessing at it!" Gee, Sherlock--I said it was a personal experience guess and then you PROVED I was only guessing--what was your first clue, man? You proved I really meant what I said! Amazing!...

No run along and demand peer-reviewed sources to prove it when someone says "I like blondes more."

Hahaha...and no, your post did not clearly state that you were guessing, yes I read it. You said UA "suggests" a 10-15% increase, I said this number is bull****, which it is. But whatever, I don't care if you do UA or not. If the brainiacs on this board want to blindly take a bunch of stuff because a few people claim it's great, yet is backed by zero research, that's fine....And I"M amazing! I mean it makes perfect sense, get all the sides if DNP, but WITHOUT THE RESULTS!! I can't believe UA isn't more popular than it is. I actually did a great deal of research last night. (For background, I have a degree in Chemistry). There is VERY strong research that suggests that DNP is safer than UA, for a number of reasons. I'll let you find it yourself, if you can even understand it. To anyone who hasn't tried it, after last night I would have never suggested this, just do TONS of research on DNP and use it instead, you'll be glad, and much better off.

**Bobo** · 05-24-2002, 08:23 PM

I would rather follow some of the people's advice here that are much more qualified than someone with just a chemistry degree and states is doesn't work just because he didn't have any results. We all know DNP is a much better fat burner. I don't think anyone disputed that. And the side effects of DNP can be much more extrme and unhealthy than UA. THe effects are similar in nature, but not even close to the intesity. But for you to discount people that are using deduction from personal experience, and follow nothing but case study that can contradict each other depending on the source, is extremely close minded. If we were to all follow multi-million dollar companies doing extensive research in the area of supplements, we would be using Muscletech products. The results coming from some reputable people on several boards state that the results of UA can be impressive. Simple as that.

And please post those sources stating DNP can be safer than UA since you've done the search already. I would like to read them.

**princessbigman** · 05-24-2002, 08:32 PM

dont listen to that guy.. first of all what are his sources

second he says dont listen to peers yet is he a scientist or some **** hes just another peer i shouldnt listen to

look up Usnic Acid in any searchengine i found tons of things saying its useful

third his brains probably fried from DNP

dont listen to me either try it for yourself its probably useful for an edge on fat loss

**Bobo** · 05-24-2002, 08:37 PM

I've tried them all.... Shhh.....

**Rlang** · 05-25-2002, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Bobo
I would rather follow some of the people's advice here that are much more qualified than someone with just a chemistry degree and states is doesn't work just because he didn't have any results. We all know DNP is a much better fat burner. I don't think anyone disputed that. And the side effects of DNP can be much more extrme and unhealthy than UA. THe effects are similar in nature, but not even close to the intesity. But for you to discount people that are using deduction from personal experience, and follow nothing but case study that can contradict each other depending on the source, is extremely close minded. If we were to all follow multi-million dollar companies doing extensive research in the area of supplements, we would be using Muscletech products. The results coming from some reputable people on several boards state that the results of UA can be impressive. Simple as that.

And please post those sources stating DNP can be safer than UA since you've done the search already. I would like to read them.

hahaha, lol. You guys crack me up. First, no, the sides from DNP are not worse than Usnic Acid, in fact as far as damaging properties UA is worse, FAR worse. And No, I'm not doing all of your homework for you, I found it, so can you, if you don't believe me, well....I couldn't give a ****. Then there is the fact that there is a great deal of info and KNOWLEDGEABLE feedback from DNP users who actually know what they are talking about, while there is nothing about UA. I've seen "Mr. X" quote the research I've come by on a couple boards, maybe he'll feel like just serving it right to you.

Your post shows your ignorance about research. You think MuscleTech really researches their ****? In published peer-reviewed journals? Haha, no they don't. Almost no supplement companies do, it's VERY expensive, and why go ahead and do it when you can just lie about it or distort irrelevant data to make it look like you did. But there is research out there, you just have to search for it, and apply it to your situation. Obviously a "reputable source on this board" is determined by number of posts (aka just sitting on your ass at your computer all day) and nothing else, because anyone pushing UA is just purely ignorant, and has an extremely limited understanding of chemistry and physiology (as well as overlooking very RELEVENT research). Like I said, whatever. I have NO reason to like or dislike UA, none at all. But I'll just advise anyone considering it to stay away, 1) because it is ineffective, and 2) it is a dangerous compound. I'm really surprised my apparently "knowledgeable peers" haven't come by it, or if they did, don't even have the intellect to interpret it. Flame away, I don't care, I laugh at anyone who jumps on something just because of the ill-advise of someone on this board, who is unqualified as anyone to do so. (with the exception of Par, who is at least able to demonstrate his knowledge and qualification, unlike those who are pushing UA). Have fun kids.

**Rlang** · 05-25-2002, 02:38 PM

Maybe one of my obviously more qualified "peers" could explain to eveyone mitotic spindle formation- ihibition, and how it relates to Usnic Acid. Anyone? This should be good!

**RockECU** · 05-25-2002, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Rlang

hahaha, lol. You guys crack me up. First, no, the sides from DNP are not worse than Usnic Acid,

#1- who said the sides from UA are worse than DNP?

in fact as far as damaging properties UA is worse, FAR worse.
And No, I'm not doing all of your homework for you, I found it, so can you, if you don't believe me, well....I couldn't give a ****.

#2- then why do you CONTINUE to reply to UA topics/threads if you don't give a ****? Back all this talk of yours up with studies/references/whatever you may have. Not everyone has access to journals of all kinds.

Then there is the fact that there is a great deal of info and KNOWLEDGEABLE feedback from DNP users who actually know what they are talking about, while there is nothing about UA. I've seen "Mr. X" quote the research I've come by on a couple boards, maybe he'll feel like just serving it right to you.

because anyone pushing UA is just purely ignorant, and has an extremely limited understanding of chemistry and physiology (as well as overlooking very RELEVENT research).

#3-do you think peeing different colors and your cum changing colors to a neon green color is considered NORMAL oh Mr. Chemistry and Physiology man.. ?? I'm not a nephrologist, but common knowledge about anatomy/physiology tells you that if you're pissing green, there's something wrong.. Not to mention that the eccrine glands are now producing a sweat that will STAIN things very easily.. I believe you're being the ignorant one by even mentioning the 2 words of DNP and safe in the same sentence.. Not to mention you even tried usnic yourself... Thats a little pot calling the kettle black here if you ask me..

Like I said, whatever. I have NO reason to like or dislike UA, none at all.

#4- Then why are you telling anybody who's interested in trying/pushing UA that they're ignorant? And why did you try it yourself?

But I'll just advise anyone considering it to stay away, 1) because it is ineffective,

#5- really?? so I'm assuming that you and every other human are one and the same huh?

and 2) it is a dangerous compound.

#6- please prove something with references..

I'm really surprised my apparently "knowledgeable peers" haven't come by it, or if they did, don't even have the intellect to interpret it.

#7- I could give 2 ****s how "knowledgeable" you think I or anybody else on this board is.. You're the one who is contradicting most everything that you're saying here so..

Flame away, I don't care, I laugh at anyone who jumps on something just because of the ill-advise of someone on this board, who is unqualified as anyone to do so.

#8- actually, the interest in usnic acid CAME ABOUT A LONG TIME AGO, and stemmed from Lipokinetix (which MANY people say is very effective). Once Lipok was pulled from the shelves, people were looking for a sodium usniate / usnic acid product to try alone or with their ECA stacks, etc. To say that people jumped on usnic acid just because of somebody on this board is ludicrous.

**RockECU** · 05-25-2002, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by Rlang
Maybe one of my obviously more qualified "peers" could explain to eveyone mitotic spindle formation- ihibition, and how it relates to Usnic Acid. Anyone? This should be good!

Mitotic Spindle Formation takes place during Prophase (2nd phase of Mitosis). In the long run, if you inhibit this process, you inhibit the growth/production/replication of a new cell.

How this relates to Usnic Acid -

Well Mr. Chemistry -
Usnic acid has been used for many years in the East, even by some as a cancer preventative. Why a cancer preventative??

By disrupting mitosis (replication/growth/production) of cells, you may be able to stop the the cancerous growth from replicating itself, thus growing larger or spreading.

Well, one of these compounds that might dirrupt the process of mitosis in hopes of keeping cancerous growths at bay is USNIC ACID.

**Bobo** · 05-25-2002, 04:04 PM

Well done Rock. I've never heard someone contradict themsevles so much and state he had "knowledgable peers" then never back anything up at all.

Hey Rlang, I'm still waiting for those studies. I shouldn't have to search. Your the one stating all these... ahem... "facts". If you state it, back it up. I'm looking for references, not links. My research goes beyond typing in usnic acid and DNP in a Google search. I suggest you do the same.

This guy is a riot.....lol

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