Massive Shoulders!?!?!

[Aarian]

Need help with my routin, my shoulder aren't getting bigger but everything else is =(((( this is how i do it...

militarypress 4x 10 8 6 4
sidelaterals 4x 10 8 6 4
bentoverlaterals (dont know the real name) 4x10 8 6 4
shrugs 4x10 8 6 4

then some abs

do you have any coments on my workout?? please let me know. i want those 50 cent shoulders =)

thanks!!

[Nainoa]

The best thing I ever did for my shoulders, was to not have a specific "Shoulder" day...

Like this article I read said: Your shoulders get used in nearly every upper body exercise... Therefore they're really easy to over train, and they will lack in gains.

Also, remember, only 12 sets per body part... Just what you have there is 16! Not to mention your shoulders are also getting used to bench do dips, bent rows etc... etc...

At least cut down you shoulder day to 8-12 exercises.

Just my two cents

Nainoa

[Nainoa]

The best thing I ever did for my shoulders, was to not have a specific "Shoulder" day...

Like this article I read said: Your shoulders get used in nearly every upper body exercise... Therefore they're really easy to over train, and they will lack in gains.

Also, remember, only 12 sets per body part... Just what you have there is 16! Not to mention your shoulders are also getting used to bench do dips, bent rows etc... etc...

At least cut down you shoulder day to 8-12 exercises.

Just my two cents

Nainoa

[DanMc]

cut your reps and sets
2 warmup
3 working 4-6 reps max... use more weight

[Irishfurey]

Nainoa has a good idea but I'm actually going to recommend the opposite. Try a short (couple weeks) shoulder specialization cycle. Train your other muscles on a minimal maintanence routine. This will ensure that most of your recovery ability is going toward making your shoulders bigger and stronger. Also, I find that higher reps (15-20) work better for me. The high amount of tension makes my shoulders grow like crazy. While the high reps worked great for me for building muscle, I still included some low reps in my shoulder specialization routine for strength.

After a two week cycle I would not have a shoulder specific day for a while before slowing adding shoulders back in.

This did work for me but its hard to say if its for everyone.

Originally posted by Nainoa
The best thing I ever did for my shoulders, was to not have a specific "Shoulder" day...

Like this article I read said: Your shoulders get used in nearly every upper body exercise... Therefore they're really easy to over train, and they will lack in gains.

Also, remember, only 12 sets per body part... Just what you have there is 16! Not to mention your shoulders are also getting used to bench do dips, bent rows etc... etc...

At least cut down you shoulder day to 8-12 exercises.

Just my two cents

Nainoa

[jobber4eva]

sorry if it seems im hijacking here, but this question could help others. regardless of shoulders being on a seperate day or on chest/tricep day, whats the BEST or MOST EFFICIENT routine? Should you go with your hardest exercise first (military or a db press movement) or the lighter ones first like front raises, or lateral raises? I find I can lift heavier if I do presses first but then the subsequent exercises are not exactly my greatest effort. vice-versa doing the "other" lifts before presses enables me to do more on those but slightly less on the pressing. anyone?

[Quantum_Man]

Originally posted by jobber4eva
sorry if it seems im hijacking here, but this question could help others. regardless of shoulders being on a seperate day or on chest/tricep day, whats the BEST or MOST EFFICIENT routine? Should you go with your hardest exercise first (military or a db press movement) or the lighter ones first like front raises, or lateral raises? I find I can lift heavier if I do presses first but then the subsequent exercises are not exactly my greatest effort. vice-versa doing the "other" lifts before presses enables me to do more on those but slightly less on the pressing. anyone?

I'd prefer to do the heavy pressing first, then the raises after. Just suck it up and do some heavy raises after the heavy presses. You'll grow from it.

[Nainoa]

I like the compromising idea Irishfurey brought up, of working shoulders, and cutting back the other exercises... Only thought I would add in, would be to take a rest week... Or perhaps a leg week, before you begin... If I/we are correct that you are overtraining shoulders... I would say give them a week to breath, heal, and power up... Then hit the cycle of heavy shoulder and light others etc...

As for the exercise order... I always order things by how they effect my core muscles... The more an exercise tires out the core, weather lower back or abs etc... The later it gets put in the routine... That's always the barometer I follow... Regardless of whether it's deads or curls etc...

[Overload]

You're doing too much IMO. Shoulders are a small muscle group. Just need some type of overhead press, and even that's debatable, and side laterals. If you do a lot of other presses you probably don't even need overhead press. I dropped overhead press since my shoulders were getting worked real well from incline presses. I do side laterals and shrugs. Now my shoulders are starting to grow again since I cut back on things.

So you can keep what you have but just cut back on sets to like 2 each.

Good luck.

[Aarian]

Thanks everybody for your replies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

think im gonna cut down to 9 sets, 3 for each head, and take a extra restday befor shoulderday....

gonna be like this...

chest/tris
Back/bis
rest....
rest....
Shoulders/abs
legs
rest....
rest....

repeat

or maybe everyother day?!?! what do you think?

[bradp]

cut out the pyramiding everything ****

[Aarian]

dude, you realy dissliked my routin ahah...

[Nainoa]

I'd stick one rest day between lifts... Just because you're working different muscles doesn't mean that worked muscles aren't helping in an ancillary fashion... And also just because you're working different muscles... You body still has to have time to properly use the resources.

[SDFlip]

Originally posted by Nainoa
The best thing I ever did for my shoulders, was to not have a specific "Shoulder" day...

Exactly -

If shoulders are a priority, do military presses first in your routine.

also, take up boxing. Every boxer has impressive shoulders. I think thats how 50 got his anyways

[Luther1921]

I usually start with rear delts, lateral delts, and then anterior delts. Presses always come last for me.

[SDFlip]

Reason for doing presses last?

are you trying to pre-exhaust them?


dumbell raises wont do anything for size and/or strength

[Aitaronz]

Well, I think I've got the perfect compromise between all of your suggestions... and it just so happens I'm about to start it on Monday.

It splits delt training into two days - front and back. This means that in addition to its own day, the front gets a secondary hit when the rear delts are trained. So you're not actually training them twice - but you're still training them than once a week! Sort of one-and-a-half times a week, I guess...

And because back and chest are trained on the same days as delts, there are no extra "hidden" training sessions that might also recruit shoulders.

(Oh, it also uses the same theory for quads/hamstrings too, since they are another part of me that could do with a catchup)


> Monday - Upper back, rear delts, biceps

> Tuesday - Quads, calves

> Wednesday - rest

> Thursday - Chest, front/side delts, triceps

> Friday - Hamstrings, lower back, abs

> Saturday - rest

> Sunday - rest

[lifting hard]

dumbell raises wont do anything for size and/or strength [/B][/QUOTE]


are you an idiot?

Lateral raises and db raises are great excercises for size and strength. Shoulder isolation movements are the best shoulder builders in my opinion because look how many compound movements they are used in already, bench, pull ups, rows, curls, dips, etc.

[SDFlip]

well, you said it yourself - it's your opinion.

see how much size you get when doing only lateral raises.


Isolation exercises should not be your PRIMARY exercise for any muscle group.

I'm not an idiot, but thats my opinion


oh, and learn how to quote properly....

[SDFlip]

Shoulder isolation movements are the best shoulder builders in my opinion because look how many compound movements they are used in already, bench, pull ups, rows, curls, dips, etc.

since when is a curl a compound movement!?!?!?

[Overload]

Originally posted by SDFlipStyle
since when is a curl a compound movement!?!?!?

Ever see some people heave that bar up with their whole body. They sure make it a compound movement

[SDFlip]

Originally posted by Overload
Ever see some people heave that bar up with their whole body. They sure make it a compound movement

yeah, it looks like a romanian deadlift/curl/front shoulder raise/hyperextension/calf raise/shrug combo

[lifting hard]

you use your front delts when you curl even with good form