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  1. #31
    Registered User jimpern's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Derek, sorry you didn't place higher. Your attitude is admirable; no one likes to lose but at least you are viewing it as an educational experience. Every one else on the forum who loses a contest can learn from this post.

    I think your self-assessment is right on the mark, except that, based on your photos, your back thickness is fine for your physique as it currently stands. In your "one day out" photos you looked a bit depleted, especially in your arms. As for holding water, it's hard to tell from photographs.

    You're right about your traps; in the back-double-bi comparison photo posted above, your traps look anemic next to the guys standing on either side of you. Your triceps are deceiving: they look fine in your lat spreads but are overpowered by your biceps in your double-bi poses.

    Coming in near the bottom of a weight class is never good. Obviously if you had made it down to 176 you might have done better in the middleweights. (Did you get to see the middleweights?) Now you have to build up so you can come in closer to 198 the next time.

    Derek, you're young and intelligent and I'm sure you'll do better each time you compete. You're already a credit to the sport and this forum!
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  2. #32
    Derek Charlebois Beast's Avatar
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    Originally posted by NWP
    Derek, congrats on everything. I'm sure you are disappointed, but believe me, this will only help you to work that much harder. Most of those guys look a lot older and there is no way a person in their early 20's can have muscle maturity like men in the their mid to late 30's.
    I'm just curious as to how you have planned out these next few weeks as far as raising calories are concerned. I know it's easy to eat everything in site and jump up 20 pounds in no time. I assume you are going to take a more moderate approach in raising calories. Can you give us a quick idea of what you have planned? Thanks.
    I agree. Muscle maturity comes with age.

    I'll be using Avant Labs' Phenogen, which is supposed to help decrease fat gain. I'll porbably add some extra SesaThin if I have any really bad meals.
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  3. #33
    3 Harland's Avatar
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    good a review on pehnogen, I've been thinking of getting me some.
    Trying to be the best I can be, without having to do my best.
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  4. #34
    Derek Charlebois Beast's Avatar
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    Originally posted by jimpern
    Derek, sorry you didn't place higher. Your attitude is admirable; no one likes to lose but at least you are viewing it as an educational experience. Every one else on the forum who loses a contest can learn from this post.

    I think your self-assessment is right on the mark, except that, based on your photos, your back thickness is fine for your physique as it currently stands. In your "one day out" photos you looked a bit depleted, especially in your arms. As for holding water, it's hard to tell from photographs.

    You're right about your traps; in the back-double-bi comparison photo posted above, your traps look anemic next to the guys standing on either side of you. Your triceps are deceiving: they look fine in your lat spreads but are overpowered by your biceps in your double-bi poses.

    Coming in near the bottom of a weight class is never good. Obviously if you had made it down to 176 you might have done better in the middleweights. (Did you get to see the middleweights?) Now you have to build up so you can come in closer to 198 the next time.

    Derek, you're young and intelligent and I'm sure you'll do better each time you compete. You're already a credit to the sport and this forum!
    Thank you for that assessment. I'll be hitting the deads and shrugs hard, that's for sure

    I am going to be doing a push pull routine with emphasis on my Chest and Tris on the push day and Back and Traps on the pull day. I will be doing lower volume for my legs, shoulders, and biceps. I am ready to KILL IT tomorrow!
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  5. #35
    Member cdawg's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Your hair come in very nicely just in time for the show.
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  6. #36
    Registered User BigArmedFella's Avatar
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    Congrats bro! Looking forward to seeing the bulking section!

    -Pace
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  7. #37
    The conformist PuRE_FiBER's Avatar
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    take it easy on the legs bro.... they are way disproportionate to your upper body. theres definately a few areas to improve on your upper body as well. If I were you, I'd only do maintainence on my legs for a while till the upper body catch up.
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  8. #38
    Derek Charlebois Beast's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Beast


    I am going to be doing a push pull routine with emphasis on my Chest and Tris on the push day and Back and Traps on the pull day. I will be doing lower volume for my legs, shoulders, and biceps. I am ready to KILL IT tomorrow!
    Yup PureFiber, that's what I'll be doing.
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  9. #39
    Jailbait Magnet Gibblets's Avatar
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    How do you maintain a bodypart? Just keep using the same weights and reps and not push yourself? Like say you could squat 315 x 10, but as you "maintain", 10 becomes pretty easy...so you would just never push for 11 or 12?
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  10. #40
    Registered User Sp1ke's Avatar
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    Is this your first Non-teen contest? Because when you were a teen you did have an advantage on your built, but now that you have moved forward there might be guys who have been training for longer in the division you were placed and that might have been a determining factor.

    You're still a role model for many teens on this board, good luck in the future, competitions after you turn 20 become VERY competitive
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  11. #41
    Derek Charlebois Beast's Avatar
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    I'll be doing about half as many sets for legs, shoulders, and biceps as I will be doing for my chest, back, traps, and triceps. So it is not really maintaining, but rather focusing more on certain muscles while still providing a good stimulus to the others.
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  12. #42
    Derek Charlebois Beast's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sp1ke
    Is this your first Non-teen contest? Because when you were a teen you did have an advantage on your built, but now that you have moved forward there might be guys who have been training for longer in the division you were placed and that might have been a determining factor.

    You're still a role model for many teens on this board, good luck in the future, competitions after you turn 20 become VERY competitive
    No, I won the men's middle weight at the two contests I did last year as well. If I did the middleweight this year, I probably would have placed well. But moving up a weight class and being at the bottom of it is a big change.
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  13. #43
    Registered User lil-al's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    dude u looked real good for that contest but holly **** derek in that side arms pic u r arms and forearms are just freaky, from the other pics i never realize how big u r arms were.
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  14. #44
    Registered User CleanEater's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Complete madman

    Hey derek I Have to say you handled your loss professionally and your self evaluation and attitude inspires me Good job keep being a mad man
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  15. #45
    Member hardest's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Beast
    Last one. All comments welcome.

    Double Side Arm
    The forearms and quads look as big as arnold's!
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  16. #46
    S&C Coach/ Rugby Coach N10CT's Avatar
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    Well done beast.

    Your conditioning is excellent. Bodybuilding is a weird sport, similar to rowing, in that you spend so much time preparing for one event and yet the smallest mistake can cost you (eg your final prep). Still I thought the pics were great and while I honestly don't think you should have come first maybe 3rd or 4th should have been a more appropriate placing. But don't worry you are a winner for simply getting up there and having a go (I don't see any of these haters on stage) and as you said its all exeperience for next time.

    I don't think even the biggest experts would not have learnt something from visiting here over the last 12 weeks or so. Personally the best thing I picked up was actually seeing carb cycling in action and being directed to the body recomp forums. Through this I have modified my own version of these diets to be more productive than ever and will be recommending this to all my trainees and athletes alike.

    I really look forward to this upcoming bulking phase. One thing I'd love is to really see you bulk and I mean BULK. I depresses me when your highest bodyfat % off season is better than most people in summer, but hey I understand your dream of the clean bulk.

    Anyway gotta run,
    I look forward to 190+ next year (It is very doable).

    N10CT
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  17. #47
    Registered User MKB001's Avatar
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    derek, you looked awesome.

    i think the fact that you were the lightest (and probably youngest) competitor totally affected the outcome.

    the fact that you put on 7 pounds since last contest is awesome. figure in the extra fat u lost this contest as opposed to last year's and im guessing that you gained 10 pounds of muscle since then.

    even tho, as u said, u were holding a lot of water, u definitely were still cut as hell. if u werent holding as much water and ur muscles were fuller, i think u would of had a great chance at top 5.

    congratulations on ur excellent progress thus far in your career.

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  18. #48
    Registered User Mad_Dog_Divine's Avatar
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    I think your weight is the major factor. In all the pre-contest pics you look absolutely fantastic and rather freaky but the reality is that some of the guys you are competing against were quite a bit heavier than you. I understand that you want to win next year but remember the year after that too. Next year you could weigh abt 190, the year after just under 198 which would make you the biggest guy there. Add in the effects of muscle maturity as well as a bigger chest and all your other weaknesses bought up and I cant see how you be beaten in 2 years time.

    But of course you have a great chance next year as well. It all depends on the percieved size difference between you and the other men.

    I absolutely admire your determination and dedication, you deserve to go far in this sport. Good luck
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  19. #49
    Registered User nimrod's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Hi derek, glad to c that u r staying positive.

    My personal comments on yr contest shape:

    1) Notice yr Front LAT spread, yr traps cant be seen. Was wondering whether it's d way u hold d pose or Maybe u shld improved on d upper traps.

    2) Front & Rear DB Biceps, shld improve sweep of Triceps.

    3) Upper Chest thickness...

    The rest of yr body parts r ok....

    Fyi, i stil prefer to see u in off season shape... simply ...AWESOME!!
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  20. #50
    Registered User Mighty Mikey G's Avatar
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    Do you know the age of the other competitors? They looked alot older than you.
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  21. #51
    Derek Charlebois Beast's Avatar
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    Yeah they were all older. Some had kids I would say around 6 or 7. All I know is I enjoyed myself, learned a tremendous amount of info, and am more motivated than ever.

    Thank you everyone for the kind and encouraging words.
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  22. #52
    Just call me Leroy Brown rookejr's Avatar
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    I have nothing but respect for you guys that compete, but one thing I have noticed looking at you, Layne, Shane, and some other guys, is that in ya'lls pics leading up to the contests, you guys are always looking thick and ripped up, but your on stage photos don't seem to even compare to your pre contest pics. I'm always suprised at how much better I thought ya'll looked in the pics you posted leading up to the contests. You guys all look amazing, but it seems like you guys loose sooo much mass for the shows but you don't get that much more shredded. I dunno, I'm no pro, but maybe someone can explain what I'm missing.
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  23. #53
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    Originally posted by rookejr
    I have nothing but respect for you guys that compete, but one thing I have noticed looking at you, Layne, Shane, and some other guys, is that in ya'lls pics leading up to the contests, you guys are always looking thick and ripped up, but your on stage photos don't seem to even compare to your pre contest pics. I'm always suprised at how much better I thought ya'll looked in the pics you posted leading up to the contests. You guys all look amazing, but it seems like you guys loose sooo much mass for the shows but you don't get that much more shredded. I dunno, I'm no pro, but maybe someone can explain what I'm missing.
    it's the oil.
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  24. #54
    Derek Charlebois Beast's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rookejr
    I have nothing but respect for you guys that compete, but one thing I have noticed looking at you, Layne, Shane, and some other guys, is that in ya'lls pics leading up to the contests, you guys are always looking thick and ripped up, but your on stage photos don't seem to even compare to your pre contest pics. I'm always suprised at how much better I thought ya'll looked in the pics you posted leading up to the contests. You guys all look amazing, but it seems like you guys loose sooo much mass for the shows but you don't get that much more shredded. I dunno, I'm no pro, but maybe someone can explain what I'm missing.
    I know I was too depleted. I needed more carbs. There are also certain things that we do in order to try and look better:
    Carb deplete then carb load
    Sodium load then deplete
    Water load then deplete
    If you do not nail these perfectly you will look less than you best. I am starting to question whether all the final manipulation is necessary. Because as you said, we all look great leading up to the contest, but then look smaller. I think next year I will do use less manipulation techniques and just stay steady.
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  25. #55
    Registered User adonis's Avatar
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    derek one thing jay cutler said to me in an email is that you shouldnt muck around too much in the final week. if you are looking good, just go in looking like that because if you **** up you've potentially ruined all 16 or so weeks of dieting for the moment that counts
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  26. #56
    Registered User adonis's Avatar
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    another thing

    you get judged on dirty trunks believe it or not

    so i advise you pump up or whatever in something else and the moment before you step on stage you don on your immaculate posing trunks
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  27. #57
    Registered User gusto's Avatar
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    you look RELATIVELY small

    while you look ****ing awesome alone, side by sides are tough because of the weight class


    you look really awesome, seeing you cut down was great


    i think with weight cutting experience, you will have no problem placing higher
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  28. #58
    Registered User JWangSDC's Avatar
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    I think a lot of it is the side by side comparison. Everything is relative...what looks amazing when you are naked next to your gf, can look like a somalian when put next to Ronnie Coleman.



    Originally posted by rookejr
    I have nothing but respect for you guys that compete, but one thing I have noticed looking at you, Layne, Shane, and some other guys, is that in ya'lls pics leading up to the contests, you guys are always looking thick and ripped up, but your on stage photos don't seem to even compare to your pre contest pics. I'm always suprised at how much better I thought ya'll looked in the pics you posted leading up to the contests. You guys all look amazing, but it seems like you guys loose sooo much mass for the shows but you don't get that much more shredded. I dunno, I'm no pro, but maybe someone can explain what I'm missing.
    Last edited by JWangSDC; 07-23-2004 at 08:51 AM.
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  29. #59
    Derek Charlebois Beast's Avatar
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    Beast has the mod powerz Beast has the mod powerz Beast has the mod powerz Beast has the mod powerz Beast has the mod powerz Beast has the mod powerz Beast has the mod powerz Beast has the mod powerz Beast has the mod powerz Beast has the mod powerz Beast has the mod powerz
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  30. #60
    NATURAL 4 LIFE! Hardcore Natural's Avatar
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    Hardcore Natural is just really nice. (+1000) Hardcore Natural is just really nice. (+1000) Hardcore Natural is just really nice. (+1000) Hardcore Natural is just really nice. (+1000) Hardcore Natural is just really nice. (+1000) Hardcore Natural is just really nice. (+1000) Hardcore Natural is just really nice. (+1000) Hardcore Natural is just really nice. (+1000) Hardcore Natural is just really nice. (+1000) Hardcore Natural is just really nice. (+1000) Hardcore Natural is just really nice. (+1000)
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    Originally posted by Beast
    I know I was too depleted. I needed more carbs. There are also certain things that we do in order to try and look better:
    Carb deplete then carb load
    Sodium load then deplete
    Water load then deplete
    If you do not nail these perfectly you will look less than you best. I am starting to question whether all the final manipulation is necessary. Because as you said, we all look great leading up to the contest, but then look smaller. I think next year I will do use less manipulation techniques and just stay steady.
    Yes, too many people try to manipulate this or that, and get thinking about too many things...when you think too hard about stuff, you end up thinking too much and then you lose focus on the basics of what's going on.

    I personally feel that you have to listen to your body, and learn what works for you. And if you are looking "on", then don't change a damn thing....if you are looking off, well then go ahead and try something in the last week, cuz then you have nothing to lose anyways. But by 1 week out, you should be contest ready...plain and simple....and if you're not, there is no last minute things you can really do to dramatically change any of it. If you are holding water 1 week out, well, there is only so much you can do. If you are still have too much fat, there is not much you can do, if you are not depleted enough to take advantage of the carb-up, then there is not much you can do. I think too many people rely on the last 3 days to make a "miracle transformation" thinking that when they wake up on Saturday morning they are going to be some massively dry, ripped to the bone anatomy chart....which could be true, but only if you were that way already at 1 week out.

    It's all a learning experience, and once you have learned how to be "contest ready" 1 week out, and then make the proper small manipulations from 3 days out on, you will then be 100% dialed in.

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    Bodybuild for yourself, nobody else!
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