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  1. #61
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    i'm not touching anything with aspartame in it.

    the issue with aspartame here seems to be with its methanol content (10% i believe). why has nobody mentioned that aspartame not only isolates methanol but also multiplies the normal dietary intake of it.

    to use the argument that fruit juices contain x times more methanol than an aspartame sweetened drink is null, because naturally occuring methanol comes with a high ratio of ethanol, which appears to be its antidote.

  2. #62
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    Originally Posted by G T
    i'm not touching anything with aspartame in it.

    the issue with aspartame here seems to be with its methanol content (10% i believe). why has nobody mentioned that aspartame not only isolates methanol but also multiplies the normal dietary intake of it.

    to use the argument that fruit juices contain x times more methanol than an aspartame sweetened drink is null, because naturally occuring methanol comes with a high ratio of ethanol, which appears to be its antidote.
    Studies?
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  3. #63
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    Originally Posted by pogue
    Studies?
    have a read of these:

    http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/fm.html

    http://www.presidiotex.com/aspartame...a/arizona.html

    it's also not hard to find reports of eyesight problems in regular aspartame users - just google it.

    An exposure to a daily dose of 40.0 mg to 61.3 mg of formaldehyde is clearly enough to cause gradual damage (without even considering aspartame's excitotoxin that would likely worsen the damage as discussed at: http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame...tml#discussion).

    The daily dose of airborne formaldehyde exposure that was shown to cause irreversible genetic damage [Ref. 5] was:


    2.25 ppm formaldehyde (average) ~= 3.375 mg/m3
    3.375 mg/m3 * 10 m3/workday = 33.75 mg/day (for a workday/schoolday)
    The genetic damage from formaldehyde exposure at approximately 33.75 mg/day was seen after many years of exposure. The longer the exposure, the more genetic damage.
    The study by Trocho et al. [Ref. 7] showed that exposure to a single dose of 10 mg/kg of aspartame led to the accumulation of formaldehyde in the body. The accumulation of formaldehyde was seen throughout the body, in the organs (liver, kidneys, brain) and tissues. (See: http://www.presidiotex.com/barcelona...Y/summary.html.) The level of formaldehyde accumulation was calculated by Trocho et al. to be from 5% of the total methanol levels of aspartame given. For every 600 mg of aspartame (a 10 mg/kg dose in a 60 kg woman), the amount of formaldehyde estimated to accumulate is:


    61.3 mg of formaldehyde * 5% = 3.065 mg of formaldehyde

  4. #64
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    Hi everyone,

    Has anyone heard of ACESULFAME POTASSIUM, also known as Splenda?

    GNLD Scientific Advisory Board member, Dr. Laszlo Somogyi, is a world-recognized expert in food sciences and was the past chairman of an Expert Panel on Nutritive and Non-nutritive Sweeteners.

    Here's the interview.

    http://www.gr2control.com/somogyi.html

    Enjoy,

    Marc Possoff

  5. #65
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    Originally Posted by G T
    have a read of these:

    http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/fm.html

    http://www.presidiotex.com/aspartame...a/arizona.html

    it's also not hard to find reports of eyesight problems in regular aspartame users - just google it.

    The first site is an untrustworthy quack site. The second one I am not convinced of, because the information is completely outdated and most of the sources are prior to the release of aspartame.

    I am looking for actual documented sources linking aspartame directly to methanol or ethanol poisoning.

    Keep in mind most of the sites you Google about aspartame are going to be complete junk. Read through the links in my original post about aspartame, and you will see most of that has been debunked.

    Here are some just written excellent articles about artifical sweetners by David Tolsen on the subject:

    Formaldehyde

    Yet another scientific paper that has received a disproportionate amount of media attention linked aspartame with the production of formaldehyde in the body. The argument is that aspartame could metabolize into methanol, which may convert to formaldehyde. Again, this paper has been widely criticized in the scientific community, for the following reasons:

    1. The study was in rats, which react much differently to methanol than primates.

    2. The authors of the study administered carbon-labelled aspartame to the rats and observed radioactivity in various tissues, but did not verify that the aspartame had yielded methanol or formaldehyde.

    3. It is known that the amount of aspartame they used would have been insufficient to significantly increase methanol levels in rats.

    4. Even high doses of methanol do not yield formaldehyde in rats.

    5. Even in monkeys, which are much more physiologically similar to humans, 3 g/kg doses of methanol do not increase formaldehyde levels. Note that to produce this much methanol, and assuming every aspartame molecule yielded a methanol molecule, a 150 lb. person would have to consume a minimum of 2 kg of aspartame in a single sitting, or about 10,000 diet sodas.

    6. While methanol can be toxic (due to conversion to formic acid), a study in humans found that 100 mg/kg of aspartame (equivalent to over 30 diet sodas) did not significantly increase methanol blood levels. Higher doses led to slight increases, but did not elevate blood levels of formic acid. Methanol is readily metabolized, and does not accumulate. Another study evaluated chronic consumption of 75 mg/kg of aspartame or placebo daily for six months, and found no elevation in blood or urine levels of methanol or formate. Thus, "even at experimental doses impossible to obtain from aspartame-sweetened foods, no toxicity related to the methanol carbon of aspartame has been found" [12].

    7. Some commonly consumed foods, such as fruit and fruit juices, elevate body methanol levels without apparent ill effects, indicating that some degree of elevation is safe (which is in line with the safety data on methanol).

    When looking at the dosages in these studies, it should be noted that 90% of the US population consumes less than 3 mg/kg of aspartame daily, and very few consume over 10 mg/kg (which is still 1/4th of the established safety limit, which is itself very conservative). As above, even if we were to assume that aspartame had a 100% conversion rate to methanol in the body, 3 mg/kg would still yield less than the reference dose of methanol (the amount that can be consumed daily without measurable ill effects) [13].
    Part 1: http://www.thebullmagazine.com/magma...ID=6&pageID=88
    Part 2: http://www.thebullmagazine.com/magma...ID=7&pageID=95
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  6. #66
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    Originally Posted by marcp
    Hi everyone,

    Has anyone heard of ACESULFAME POTASSIUM, also known as Splenda?

    GNLD Scientific Advisory Board member, Dr. Laszlo Somogyi, is a world-recognized expert in food sciences and was the past chairman of an Expert Panel on Nutritive and Non-nutritive Sweeteners.

    Here's the interview.

    http://www.gr2control.com/somogyi.html

    Enjoy,

    Marc Possoff
    Splenda is not acesulfame, it is sucralose.

    There is some question about acesulfame, however, due to the lack of human toxicology studies that have been performed. There is some information about it in the link I posted above in part 2 of the article by David Tolsen.
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  7. #67
    Registered User marcp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pogue
    Splenda is not acesulfame, it is sucralose.

    There is some question about acesulfame, however, due to the lack of human toxicology studies that have been performed. There is some information about it in the link I posted above in part 2 of the article by David Tolsen.
    I understand there has been some questions about it.

    What I posted is scientific documented research from Rutgers Univ.

    Regards,

    Marc

  8. #68
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    pogue, you can't just write off a whole article because it comes from a "quack" site.

    read through it, it's all referenced and the maths makes perfect sense.

    "7. Some commonly consumed foods, such as fruit and fruit juices, elevate body methanol levels without apparent ill effects, indicating that some degree of elevation is safe (which is in line with the safety data on methanol)."

    again, ethanol is the known antidote to methanol and the reason the methanol in juices does not have any bad effects is because of its high ratio of ethanol.

    aspartame contains 10% isolated methanol. of course it's not going to cause poisoning in such dosages, but the formaldehyde that is metabolised from it will accumulate. methanol as methanol is not dangerous, it's what it turns into.

    users of protein powders containing aspartame can be considered regular to heavy users of aspartame.

    i know there is a lot of crap on google, but there are too many reports of people losing their vision among other symptoms after using aspartame for years.

    i'm staying away from anything that multiplies the daily formaldehyde intake anyway.

  9. #69
    Registered User marcp's Avatar
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    Here's a decent article.....

    http://www.cce.cornell.edu/food/fsar...cesulfame.html

    Marc

  10. #70
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    WOW! awesome thread! very informative! and pogue, thanks for the links!

    the best thing is probably to avoid natural sweetners, if possible, but for me, i am forced to choose between artificial sweetners and sugar, and have opted for the former. i am borderline osteoporotic, so i've gotta drink a ton of milk (like 4-6 cups/day... which would be like 13g sugar x 5 /day, JUST for milk )... luckily that "Adkins" milk by hood came out and i've been drinking that for like a year (only 3g sugar/cup), but i was concerned about "how bad" for me the Splenda was... one of my best friends who is in her first year in med school at Penn state was explaining to me how Splenda is worse than asparatame (she went through the mechansim too quickly for me to remember most of what she said, but it was something like the body can't break it down completely and a portion of it does not get excreted, but builds up in the body...); however, i've never heard anything of the sort, and when i asked my endocrinologist about it, he said that Splenda is totally safe, and that he is a big fan of it (and proceeds to show me a bag of sugar free chocolate candy, sweetened w/ Splenda, that he sells in his office). and from one of the links pogue posted, Splenda looked to be, hands down, the safest of the artificial sweetners, so i am much relieved!

    as far as sugar alcohols are concerned, does anyone know if they have a postitive effect on blood sugar? i am very sensitive to fluctuating blood sugar levels, yet when i consume foods w/ sugar alcohols, it always makes me fuller longer, and i don't get that tiredness/"low blood sugar feeling" 2 hrs. after a meal.
    I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end it doesn't even matter...

  11. #71
    Registered User Kaner's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dressagerulz23
    as far as sugar alcohols are concerned, does anyone know if they have a postitive effect on blood sugar? i am very sensitive to fluctuating blood sugar levels, yet when i consume foods w/ sugar alcohols, it always makes me fuller longer, and i don't get that tiredness/"low blood sugar feeling" 2 hrs. after a meal.
    They're extremely low on the GI.

    Anyone got an answer for the question I posted half a page back?

  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by Kaner
    Looks like this thread has been forgotten a bit, but I'll try anyway - Do sweeteners (any or all of them) cause food/sugar cravings?
    not for me! if anything, the sweetners kill the cravings and make sugar actually taste bad... for example, i've always LOVED sugary foods, and unlike some ppl i never really thought the "normal" milk tasted sugary... well, (now that i pay close attention to sugars, and don't eat very many sugary foods), i've been drinking that "Carb Countdown" milk or whatever its called w/ Splenda in it. one day this past semseter i forgot my lunch/vitamins and NEEDED milk for the calcium, so (go figure) they don't have that carb countdown milk on campus, and i'm forced to get the "normal" stuff (with the sugar). that sh!t tasted so bad (sweet, sugary) i literally held my nose and "chugged" it as fast as possible! don't know if this kind of thing is true for other ppl, but for the artifical sweetners like permanently killed my sweet tooth
    I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end it doesn't even matter...

  13. #73
    Registered User Leafs/Pack's Avatar
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    Question Sugar Twin

    What category would Sugar Twin be in. it says its made from dextrose and sodium cyclamate

  14. #74
    Moderator pogue's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Leafs/Pack
    What category would Sugar Twin be in. it says its made from dextrose and sodium cyclamate
    Cyclamate is an artificial sweetener that was discovered in 1937 at the University of Illinois by graduate student Michael Sveda.

    Like many artificial sweeteners, the sweetness of cyclamates was discovered by accident. Michael Sveda was working in the lab on the synthesis of anti-fever medication. He put his cigarette down on the lab bench and when he put it back in his mouth he discovered the sweet taste of cyclamate. The patent for cyclamate was purchased by DuPont but later sold to Abbott Laboratories who undertook the necessary studies and submitted a New Drug Application in 1950. Abbott intended to use cyclamate to mask the bitterness of certain drugs such as antibiotics and pentobarbital. In the US in 1958 it was designated GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe). Cyclamate was marketed in tablet form for use by diabetics as an alternative tabletop sweetener.

    Cyclamate is often used synergistically with other artificial sweeteners such as saccharin (such as 10 parts cyclamate to 1 part saccharin). Sodium and Calcium Cyclamate are about 30 to 50 times sweeter than sucrose (it depends on concentration since it is not a linear relationship), which is least of the commercially used artificial sweeteners. It is less expensive than most sweeteners, including sucrose, and is stable under heating. Cyclamate is the calcium or sodium salt of cyclamic acid (cyclohexanesulfamic acid) (calcium cyclohexylsulfamate and sodium cyclohexylsulfamate).

    In the United States, the Food and Drug Administration banned the sale of cyclamate in 1970 after lab tests indicated that large amounts of cyclamates caused bladder cancer in rats (a disease which rats are particularly susceptible to, also caused by drinking sugar water). The findings of these studies have been challenged and some companies are petitioning to have cyclamates reapproved. Further testing has shown however, that while the cyclamate molecule itself is relatively harmless, it can be metabolized by the body into cyclohexilamine which has been shown to cause testicular atrophy in mice. Cyclamate is still used as a sweetener in many other parts of the world and it is approved in over 55 countries.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_cyclamate

    http://www.caloriecontrol.org/cyclam2.html
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  15. #75
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    Originally Posted by Stravinsk
    I don't if know if dairy products grow and spread cancer - but I personally don't see that they are good for human health. Billions upon billions don't consume milk products (mostly it is western nations) - in fact some cultures don't consume them at all. What is interesting is that western nations, those with the highest rates of osteoporosis, are also the biggest consumers of milk products.

    Besides the fact that in nature humans are the ONLY species to consume milk past infancy (and the only species to consume the milk of another species), cow's milk frequently contains:
    Side note - we are the only animals CAPABLE of extracting milk from other animals. Given the option - as many farmers, zoo keepers and pet owners will tell you, many animals will happily drink cow's milk if it is available. We do about a billion other things animals don't do.

    Very interesting thread...

  16. #76
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    do artificial sweetners have an effect on metabolism? such as slowing it down?

    if i understand correctly one of them caused troubles with carb metabolism? (Stevia?)

  17. #77
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    hi,

    what about wheylow.

    i have recentle discovered this sweetener, and i love it, tastes just like sugar.

    i wont post the link, but a quick engine search will find it.

    what are your thoughts.

    i can't tolerate anything with aspartame in it, it gets me sick within 30 minutes, and don't like the taste of splenda...

  18. #78
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    Red face

    It's kinda silly when people think they can improve on the natural foods & substances that God created a long time ago. Sorry but It's NOT gonna happen -EVER!

  19. #79
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    great thread, i read a lot of it but i was wondering if i could get the bottom line on this

    i am dieting now (cutting) and use sucralose (in my 0 calorie syrups) and aspartame (sugar free jello/pudding/diet coke). I use maybe 3tblspns of the syrup every 2 days and have some of the sugar free jello/pudding/diet coke maybe once every 4-5 days. This probably won't effect me that much but do you think it's such a big deal to be concerned about it? i read they only give off headaches/change mood, and that doesnt effect me (that ive noticed) when i eat this crap, even if it does, i think its worth it to stop my cravings and still remain low calorie

    thx

  20. #80
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    So heres a little question, it doesn't say on the labels of most protein powders but is there anywhere where it would say the aspartame and acesulfame-k per serving of proteins like Nectar, VP2, or Dymatize Elite?

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    question on sugar alcohols

    The sweets i eat are basically pure sugar alcohols (eggo syrup, low carb ****, diet ****)

    ive read that malitol and sorbitol are the worst out of all the sugar alcohols- they cause bad gas and diarhea easier

    my question is: Do they do something else? like do they cause the diarhea cause they go less digested? and if so, would that make them less fattening?

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    Registered User MarkyMark83's Avatar
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    bump what BMAN1 said.....as strongly scientifically supported as these articles are, there is no convincing me to take any of these artificial sweeteners, they are not food and i have no desire to put these chemicals in my body....there is something about real food u can't pinpoint, like how great is a homecooked meal from your mom...cant explain nutritionally why it is so good, but it just makes u feel great.......imo if u r serious about nutrition, don't use any of these fake or real sugars, i put none in coffee, tea (although i rarely ever have any) or w/e i dont drink any pop, rarely drink fruit juice.....stick to water, complex carbs and fruits and veggies, also i take all natural whey, doesnt taste as good but i could care less...protein bars are nutritional garbage imo, 99% are waaay overprocessed and so much crap in em...stop looking for shortcuts so u can still eat sweets, sweeten ur coffee and drink cola.....man up and just eat healthy.....

    if u have specific goals, i.e. cutting carbs for comp, maybe u should research this stuff, make ur decisions, but for the average person even if u workout hard, keep it healthy and natural...

    sorry to rant but i feel sooo good everyday after i cleaned out my diet.....

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    Registered User Kaner's Avatar
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    Stop derailing the thread with your stupid luddite rants.

    God didn't create this message board either. Feel free to stay out of it.

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    Registered User MarkyMark83's Avatar
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    what the hell is your problem? obviously some ppl don't like artificial sweeteners, like all these guys...

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=471061

    i'm sure pro/con opinions fall somewhere under the category of artificial sweeteners:an overview..... besides your confused self apparently likes to eat apples oranges and mandarins all day too

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...20#post5386020
    Last edited by MarkyMark83; 05-01-2005 at 01:46 PM.

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    You're so stupid, I'm amazed you even managed to operate a computer well enough to post.

    I have no problems with discussing the pros and cons of artificial sweeteners. That's why I came to this thread. I have a problems with idiots interfering with scientific discussions with their irrelevant crap about god.

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    i never said anything about god, i was just agreeing with that dude and a lot of ppl who are big on natural food.... these personal attacks are irrelevant, i wont degenerate to that...these scientific reports don't say nothing about night shakes which i have gotten, and so did some other guys from the post on soda i linked to, clearly there are effects to these sweetners which arent scientifically supported......

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    There is NOTHING natural about what you eat. Everything you put in your mouth is the product of years of human involvement. Not eating something because it's "unnatural" is idiotic. Saying you don't want to put "chemicals" in your body shows nothing but ignorance.

    Do whatever you want with your body, just stop crapping on threads where people actually discuss things instead of spewing random misinformation.

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    ok u win, there are absolutely no caveats to artificial sweeteners, the warning labels on coke cans are for fun, anecdotal evidence such as insomnia is irrelevant and cancer findings should be ignored, GT is makin stuff up.......there is still an ongoing debate over these sweeteners, they are relatively new, and have not definitively proven to be safe....

    my main point was why eat either, why take ur chances?

    just because someone does not have ur opinion doesn't mean its wrong..

    have u ever picked up one of those meal replacement shakes like ensure that are supposedly a complete MRP? they all say do not use as a sole source of nutrition...there must be something missing, although it would seem from the label it has every nutrient vitamin and mineral u need.....

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    I have no problems with aspartame. I know it's probably not the best for you, but I drink diet soda. I believe this is better than sugar. I would like to say that dosage matters the most here. Overdosage of anything is probably bad. Hence supplements have dosages that people should follow.

    Anyways sucralose causes a laxative effect for me. Did you know that foods with Sucralose actually carry a warning claiming: "excess comsumption may result in a laxative effect?" Well I am one of those people who can not consume Sucralose. I might be ok with a bite or two of a bar containing Sucralose / Splenda, but anything more will result in diahreaha and stomach pain.

    I have no problems with ACESULFAME POTASSIUM
    This is found in my protein drinks and is fine for me.
    Anyone have any medical reports on: ACESULFAME POTASSIUM

    I'm slightly worried about artificial sweeteners. I believe for a long time, Tabaco was considered "safe." Well ... I hope aspartame isn't the next tabacco.

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    Originally Posted by NashEQ
    I have no problems with aspartame. I know it's probably not the best for you, but I drink diet soda. I believe this is better than sugar. I would like to say that dosage matters the most here. Overdosage of anything is probably bad. Hence supplements have dosages that people should follow.

    Anyways sucralose causes a laxative effect for me. Did you know that foods with Sucralose actually carry a warning claiming: "excess comsumption may result in a laxative effect?" Well I am one of those people who can not consume Sucralose. I might be ok with a bite or two of a bar containing Sucralose / Splenda, but anything more will result in diahreaha and stomach pain.

    I have no problems with ACESULFAME POTASSIUM
    This is found in my protein drinks and is fine for me.
    Anyone have any medical reports on: ACESULFAME POTASSIUM

    I'm slightly worried about artificial sweeteners. I believe for a long time, Tabaco was considered "safe." Well ... I hope aspartame isn't the next tabacco.
    I feel exactly the same way. I'm very weary of articial sweetners but in the modern food industry, and especially with sports supplements its basically impossible to avoid them. I don't think there is a single whey protein powder that is sweetened with sugar, all the natural claimed ones use Stevia. I just try to avoid them and try not to take too much of any one sweetner. Chances are there aren't any serious health risks from using them but who knows, better safe than sorry.

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