A Few 19-nor questions

[xc-racer]

I've been reading about prohormone and andro supplements for awhile, and i've become increasingly interested in taking 19-norandrostenediol.

My main concern about taking a prohormone, are side-effects. It seems like 19-norandrostenediol would be the one to take when it comes to safety. Are there any side-effects to taking it that i'm not aware of? Should i take an estrogen blocker such as 6-oxo while on it, and what should i take post-cycle?

I've read a lot of threads about ph's but none that i've come across are about just 19-nor, so i want to make sure i it right.

I am interested in the ergopharm norandrodiol select 300

[Skigazzi]

No need for a estrogen blocker on cycle, Nor is pretty suppressive to your natural test , therefore estrogen will not be high either.

For PCT have 6-0x0 , Formadrol V2, or a bottle of ********, maybe some tribulus just for kicks too.

All PHs have sides, Nor is adrogenic, less than the others, but none the less, its an adrogen, so there is a chance that any of the usual sides can happen, but its doutful.

[Danik]

The main thing to worry about Nordiol is its suppressive nature, and the possibility of gyno. The adrogenic side effects (balding, deeper voice, facial hair, etc) are very small since the conversion to DHT from nortestosterone is much smaller than testosterone (about one fifth). You don't need to run 6-oxo while on cycle since estrogen has some anabolic qualities as well, such as water retention. If you are extremely risk averse then you could do so, but the only time you would actually need to run an anti-estrogen on a PH cycle is if you start developing gyno. In that case you would be better off with nolvadex anyway. Other than that you should be good. I ran a couple cycles of Nordiol with some 4-AD. Some lean mass gains, about 3 lbs for each 3 week cycle, but the most prominent difference was definitely in strength gains. Just make sure you do proper PCT, and you are looking at a relatively safe cycle.

[xc-racer]

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. Since the ergopharm is 300mg a capsule, and it says to take 1 to 3 capsules daily, how should i do the dosage? I didn't think of the chance of gyno development. Would i begin to slowly notice gyno developing and will the 6-oxo or nolvadex take care of it? I would probally take the 6-oxo while on cycle also since i'm a little risk averse. I'm not worried about a loss in libido if that is a side effect

[PROVERBS]

gyno is a possible side with Nor-diol?? I thought it was a possible side with 19-norandrostendione not 19-norandrostendiol

[Danik]

It is a possible side for both.

[calibrated]

From big cats article on Nor-diol. He says no estrogenic effects.




Nor-diol (19-Nor-4-androsten-3,17-diol)

Target Hormone: 19Nortestosterone (nandrolone)
olecular name of target hormone: 17ß-hydroxy-19-nor-4-andro-sten-3-one
Target conversion: High (15.76 %)
Conversion enzyme: 3-ß-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3HSD)
DHT conversion: none
Estrogenic effects: none

To me, this is the top of the line, though some will not agree with me. I stacked this with 5-diol, and as I explained the 5AD did very little other than keep androgens moderate and ensure greater Nor-diol conversion, and came to the conclusion that this is without a doubt the hands down winner of the Andro Wars.

The advantages include no estrogen or DHT prior to conversion on the basis of it being a diol version, and only a fifth the DHT conversion afterwards because it has nandrolone as a target hormone. It's almost twice as anabolic as its dione counterpart and in terms of gains can match 4-diol milligram for milligram. It is of more use to the young bodybuilder because it converts to nandrolone via the 3-beta enzyme assuring high conversion and not interfering with testosterone production other than by negative feedback. Meaning in moderate doses it will not stunt your natural testosterone too much and ensure a faster recovery afterwards. That makes it definitely the most potent prohormone to use by itself, but obviously the stacking is limited. If you were willing to take the risk of mega-dosing and reach enzyme saturation, 19Nor is a possibility, but since most of the question I get about prohormones have a severe undertone of fear where side effects are concerned, I don't think that will be a popular stack. With 4-diol you have too strong of a competition, vying for the same receptor enzyme. 5-diol is your best bet because of strong anabolism despite low conversion and the fact that it can upgrade the 3-beta enzyme assuring greater conversion.

The greatest downside to Nor-diol is the cost. It's hard to find quality because not many quality companies produce it. The economic returns are minimal because people don't like paying that much for a prohormone. Some companies will even badmouth Nor-diol to cover their lack of endeavour (are you hearing me Paul Delia?). Your best bet on the market these days, and I know the bodybuilding.com store carries them, are Prolab (100 mg per cap) and Ergopharms oral product (150 mg per cap) I only mention this because a lot of people have asked me where to find good Nor-diol.

[PROVERBS]

Originally posted by Danik
It is a possible side for both.

anyone here experience gyno as a side of 19-norandrostendiol?

I was going off of big cat's article too that says no estrogenic effects.

[heavy hitter 2]

all prohormones have the possibility of estrogenic side effects. they might not raise your estrogen levels themselves but your body might raise it's own estrogen levels to compensate for the extra testosterone

[xc-racer]

what about the dosage, how should i split it?

[heavy hitter 2]

i would just take 1 with each meal

[BIONIC MAN]

transdermal nor like higher powers might be what your looking for.

[xc-racer]

so something like the Anabol-X is what you would recommend?