No skill in MMA?

[user8073964251]

Bernard Hopkins, former boxer, said just that on the show "Rome is Burning".

Sorry, no link... but what an idiot...

To sum up what he said "I can go down to the local bar and find 'ultimate fighters', I'm sure they run and stuff, but there is no skill involved."

To which Rome said to Chuck Liddell, who didn't really send a substantial jab back...

[user8073964251]

pissed me off, but it shows the ignorance involved by people outside the sport...

[HardGainer82]

To be fair, Hopkins also said that an MMA fighter would whoop his ass.

[izzm]

He didn't mean there was no skill involved. He just doesnt' think there is any finesse... He thinks its too brutal, and it's not really a sport.

He even said that he wouldn't last long with a lower tier MMA fighter...

I think you shut him out when he started dissing MMA without even paying attention to what he actually said. Now, I don't agree with him, but I think it's wrong to misinterpret what he said.

[2kool4skool]

He did say they would beat his ass, so his comments aren't that bad, he probably jsut doesn't understand most of the stuff that goes on in an MMA fight.

He happens to be my least favorite boxer so I would love to slam him for this, but it's not a big deal in my opinion.

[Kane Fan]

He didn't mean there was no skill involved. He just doesnt' think there is any finesse... He thinks its too brutal, and it's not really a sport.

He even said that he wouldn't last long with a lower tier MMA fighter...

I think you shut him out when he started dissing MMA without even paying attention to what he actually said. Now, I don't agree with him, but I think it's wrong to misinterpret what he said.

with reguard to striking he is right
I mean if you look at what passes for good boxing in mixed, and compare it to actual boxing
same with mthai or kickboxing
what he said is, well true

of course there is a great deal of skill in the grappling involved
but the striking is well below par
but with 4oz gloves, you don't need much skill
all you have to do is wing punches and you can score KO's or stunning shots

[Dragger]

but with 4oz gloves, you don't need much skill
all you have to do is wing punches and you can score KO's or stunning shots

So what you're saying is anyone can be an MMA Champ as it doesn't take much skill, all you have to do is just throw heavy hands and the lucky one get's it?

Then why does Liddel consistently win?

How does a 6'8" 265 lb Sylvia get beat by a retired 6'1 220lb Couture who's in his 40's with almost a foot reach disadvantage? Was that just 5 rds of nothing but lucky hits over and over again? No, that was skill at it's finest.

4oz gloves demand more skill and speed than punching with giant pillows wrapped around your hands. A boxer wouldn't know how to protect himself in an MMA fight, nothing to hide behind and get's knocked out or when he get's taken down he'll flail around and get hurt. Then sit up and say "But-but-but it doesn't require skill! What happened?"

Why do people constantly think you fight the same with huge red pillows on your hands as with 4oz'ers? Doesn't take skill? That's bullshyt, that's Mayweather so afraid of Sherk he played off his shyt talking.

[HulkHagen]

with reguard to striking he is right
I mean if you look at what passes for good boxing in mixed, and compare it to actual boxing
same with mthai or kickboxing
what he said is, well true

of course there is a great deal of skill in the grappling involved
but the striking is well below par
but with 4oz gloves, you don't need much skill
all you have to do is wing punches and you can score KO's or stunning shots

It goes both ways though; that's why MMA boxing and pure boxing will never be the same, even if both guys are equally skilled technically. With the bigger gloves you have more area to block with, and you can block with your gloves better than MMA. If you try to block with your hands in MMA, the gloves are so small they just knock your hands back into your face and you don't block nearly as much of the impact.

There are so many things that you can get by with in a technical boxing that you can't in an MMA fight, and vice-versa, that the two styles will never be the same.

[Dragger]

It goes both ways though; that's why MMA boxing and pure boxing will never be the same, even if both guys are equally skilled technically. With the bigger gloves you have more area to block with, and you can block with your gloves better than MMA. If you try to block with your hands in MMA, the gloves are so small they just knock your hands back into your face and you don't block nearly as much of the impact.

There are so many things that you can get by with in a technical boxing that you can't in an MMA fight, and vice-versa, that the two styles will never be the same.

Thank you, exactly my point; their not the same, you don't go into an MMA fight and box like a boxer. Just look at the top strikers in MMA, nothing like a boxer because you can't be tight and expect to block anything and everything under the sun with your hands because the giant red pillows aren't there. Puts more emphasis on movement and speed, dodgin, bobbin, and weavin, just look at Liddel's "running backwards while knocking someone out" move(THAT doesn't take skill?). Do you(Kane fan) and the rest of the boxing world just think MMA fighters are just stupid? Incapable of learning to box like a boxer? Funny I don't see boxers in MMA, Mayweather chikened out, because their stand-ups are done completely differently.

[DieselZ]

Boxing is on its last limbs anyways, who cares.

MMA is much more explosive and unpredictable. The fights are way more energetic.

[Dragger]

Let's look at defence for a second, a boxer has his kidney pad and shorts jacked up over his hips, he only has to protect from about mid-ab to face and with huge gloves, he can keep his hands up, elbows tucked and with little to no movement(compred to MMA) he's covered.

An MMA fighter(striker) has to protect from his ankles to the top of his head without the benefit of huge gloves to protect him; WHILE protecting himself from the clinch, takedown, knees, and kicks to the body that will break ribs/kicks to the head that will put you to bed. That's a tall order.

But he doesn't "need much skill" to do this...

...right.

Damn. If just anyone with ground ability and no real skill in striking could become MMA champ, I think I'll stop by on the way home tomorrow from work and pick up and few Championships.

[Spuddy]

it doesnt take more skill either way, and if you think it does, you are pretty ignorant. go try and box with someone who know's their **** and tell me those "huge red pillows" are gonna save you

the fact of the matter is, since boxing is specialized, the punches are thrown a lot better, from more angles, because there is nothing else to worry about. 15 minutes worth of boxing will leave the average boxer hit over 200 times, which is a LOT more than any MMA fighter ever gets hit (and those gloves dont do much to stop the hurt.. if youve never boxed, you have no idea)

on that same note, MMA has a lot more target area to worry about, so it is equally difficult to defend. many arts are fused together to make this style happen, meaning that none of them will be as good as they could be alone, but there is a lot more to worry about to balance that out.


the bottom line is, both sports have a lot of knockouts, and both sports have some full length fights as well. if you think one sanctioned fight is easier than the other, youre an idiot.

[NINEZeRO]

you can't strike (box, kickbox, Muay Thai) with good form in MMA because you have to be constantly defending (at least in your mind) for a takedown. its a world different going from just watching out for the other guys two hands to his two hands and feet and another world different to watch out for elbows, knees and takedowns.

[HardGainer82]

Everyone should read the article "The epee vs. the shovel"

[Greg1983]

it doesnt take more skill either way, and if you think it does, you are pretty ignorant. go try and box with someone who know's their **** and tell me those "huge red pillows" are gonna save you

the fact of the matter is, since boxing is specialized, the punches are thrown a lot better, from more angles, because there is nothing else to worry about. 15 minutes worth of boxing will leave the average boxer hit over 200 times, which is a LOT more than any MMA fighter ever gets hit (and those gloves dont do much to stop the hurt.. if youve never boxed, you have no idea)

on that same note, MMA has a lot more target area to worry about, so it is equally difficult to defend. many arts are fused together to make this style happen, meaning that none of them will be as good as they could be alone, but there is a lot more to worry about to balance that out.


the bottom line is, both sports have a lot of knockouts, and both sports have some full length fights as well. if you think one sanctioned fight is easier than the other, youre an idiot.

I completely agree. Dana trashes boxing, boxers trash MMA (although I don't think Hopkins said anything out of line as Floyd did). It's all pretty juvenile.

Right now I'd say it's harder to become a pro boxer than a pro mixed martial artist, because boxing has been popular longer and more people were getting into it. Over the next few years I'd wager that gap would disappear.

[Mark_ey]

some fighters are not skilled in anything they just fight

a guy like cro cop is considered skilled in kickboxing, just because you learn kickboxing doesn't mean you're skilled.

Big Nog is skilled in BJJ just because some ufc fighter puts his opponent in a rear naked choke doesn't mean he is skilled.

[moodymikey]

I think MMA fighters are skilled, but I can easily see how a professional boxer or Muay Thai expert wouldnt think so. CHuck Liddell is known as the best striker in the UFC because he has numerous knockouts and arguably is the most dangerous fighter in the world. Yet his striking style is incredibly unorthodox.

I have done Muay Thai for many years and I look at him and dont feel that he is very skilled at all in Muay Thai. He throws looping punches, he has his chin in the air and his arms are rarely covering his jaw. Yet he is highly skilled in striking. To me, that just says he has perfected his own style of striking, which is just as skilled as a professional Muay Thai fighter.

Mirko Filipovic has the best Muay Thai fighting in MMA, but that doesnt mean he is the best striker, it just means he is the most skilled at that specific martial art

[DaHooligan]

Bernard Must of been Watching Wanderlei Silva fights lol

[GiftedLiftin39]

I think MMA fighters are skilled, but I can easily see how a professional boxer or Muay Thai expert wouldnt think so. CHuck Liddell is known as the best striker in the UFC because he has numerous knockouts and arguably is the most dangerous fighter in the world. Yet his striking style is incredibly unorthodox.

I have done Muay Thai for many years and I look at him and dont feel that he is very skilled at all in Muay Thai. He throws looping punches, he has his chin in the air and his arms are rarely covering his jaw. Yet he is highly skilled in striking. To me, that just says he has perfected his own style of striking, which is just as skilled as a professional Muay Thai fighter.

Mirko Filipovic has the best Muay Thai fighting in MMA, but that doesnt mean he is the best striker, it just means he is the most skilled at that specific martial art

Chuck Liddell has his own style...its like counter-striking. he uses his opponents agressiveness against them, his hands are low so he can induce the other fighter to striek first thinking his hands are low and perfect time..but chuck gets in and counters their strikes.

I have no problem with Hopkins comment. saying that mma has no "skill" because he also said that hed get hsi ass kicked by one. it gets me pissed when a boxer come out and says they could whoop a mma fighter anyday..total bull****.

also Dana doesnt trash boxing, Dana used to be a amateur boxer, he jsut defends mma saying that a boxer couldnt do jack **** to a mma fighter.

and how do they say mma fighters do not have finesse??? i say mma fighters have they best finesse, able to put together legs/knees/elbows/fists combos and its really nice. the KO's in mma are way better.

when i first started getting into hitting sports...i loved boxing and hated mma, i used to think mma was brutal and stupid..but as i grew more for the fighting i needed more..and then mma came and i love this **** till the day i die. boxing used to be exciting as hell...now its as exciting as golf.

in boxing your always expecting one thing...a punch..

in mma you dont know wtf to expect.

[moodymikey]

I agree totally GiftedLiftin. Chuck Liddell is a master striker, but not a master boxer. And therefore its easy for someone who is highly skilled at boxing to say he isnt skilled. Simply because his stand-up isnt that of a boxer or a a Muay Thai fighter.

[adoniscomplex]

i dont see how people can make statments saying a group of people are unskilled

the fact is with any sport
you spend 1,000's of hours learning and re learning the motions and skillsets needed to make it to a competive level
just because the skil set for sport a is different then the skill set for sport b doesnt make athelte a or b less or more skilled

if the some portion of time is put in , the same amount of motor learning is gained

ya boxers can hit harder and more accrutaly but mma fighters have to deal with a muilkttude of attacks and defenses
the whole 2 weapons v. 5 thing

i dont think any sport requires any more skill then anyother sport
because either way people spend endless hours learning how to do it

[Kane Fan]

So what you're saying is anyone can be an MMA Champ as it doesn't take much skill, all you have to do is just throw heavy hands and the lucky one get's it?

Then why does Liddel consistently win?

How does a 6'8" 265 lb Sylvia get beat by a retired 6'1 220lb Couture who's in his 40's with almost a foot reach disadvantage? Was that just 5 rds of nothing but lucky hits over and over again? No, that was skill at it's finest.

4oz gloves demand more skill and speed than punching with giant pillows wrapped around your hands. A boxer wouldn't know how to protect himself in an MMA fight, nothing to hide behind and get's knocked out or when he get's taken down he'll flail around and get hurt. Then sit up and say "But-but-but it doesn't require skill! What happened?"

Why do people constantly think you fight the same with huge red pillows on your hands as with 4oz'ers? Doesn't take skill? That's bullshyt, that's Mayweather so afraid of Sherk he played off his shyt talking.

your acting out of anger and sounding ignorant
you have to look at reality
compare the STRIKING skill in mixed to boxing or high end kickboxing
simple fact, the striking skills in mixed are (on average) very very poor

Randy Coture's striking is respectable but the fact that you would call it striking skill "at it's best" is really all the point that needs to be made really

[CJJ]

Bhop saying this is like someone who plays checkers saying theres no skill in chess

[user8073964251]

A big point I don't see mentioned is the difference in gloves, and rules that limit striking...

A boxer can work his way inside, defend, and explode out with punches...

A MMA fighter works his way in, and he's getting clinched or taken down...

A boxer can parry, and use the gloves to defend...

A MMA fighter has to quickly attack and retreat because the gloves offer no sizeable defense...


Are boxers better at boxing? Of course! But striking and boxing are different things. Its apples and oranges really...

[GiftedLiftin39]

i dont see how people can make statments saying a group of people are unskilled

the fact is with any sport
you spend 1,000's of hours learning and re learning the motions and skillsets needed to make it to a competive level
just because the skil set for sport a is different then the skill set for sport b doesnt make athelte a or b less or more skilled

if the some portion of time is put in , the same amount of motor learning is gained

ya boxers can hit harder and more accrutaly but mma fighters have to deal with a muilkttude of attacks and defenses
the whole 2 weapons v. 5 thing

i dont think any sport requires any more skill then anyother sport
because either way people spend endless hours learning how to do it

I think your wrong, what makes you think boxers can hit more accurately? they have more glove space for contact. MMA fighters have gloves that are really small..needing more accuracy. I wouldnt say boxers can hit harder, its all dependent on the person. sure mike tyson can hit hard...but so can chuck liddell or fedor.

obviously MMA requires more skill than boxing. you learn a set of punches, and you just try to improve your speed/accuracy/power/combination/finesse of those set of punches..

in MMA theres always new moves coming out and nothing gets old.

boxing skill you learn to defend your torso/head. fairly easy but still a skill
but MMA you got to defend your torso/legs/head. your mind is racing a hundred miles an hour trying to figure if the guy is going to get inside and uppercut, or clinch, or go for a takedown. you got to make sure hes not faking with a strike and end up getting a low leg kick.

boxing your just like.."uh oh...hes going for my head or stomach...lets cover up"

[DaHooligan]

Right now of course mma looks sloppy and wreckless...but my biggest gripe is It has not evened out yet as far as talent...for example watch a college Wrestling match you can tell both guys are meant to be in there they are top guys...just like in Boxing they have to climb the ranks and beat hundreds of guys in the amatuers and pros to get a shot...

now take MMA its the only sport where you see Extremely good fighters mixed with horrible guys who are not great fighting it needs to even out they need an amateur system to weed out these guys like Wayne Weems, and rob emerson, and Corey hills, and Chris lebens etc...

Thats why I can see Why Bernard hopkins said you can take a guy from a bar and make a him an ultimate fighter basically many of those guys are just average guys who train self defense...there mismatches are by far to far in disparity its like a lion fighting a kitten sometimes.

But the people watching it dont care as long as the fight is violent...other people like to see Sport like boxing and wrestling even if its technical just because they know how good the guys are and they are top elites going at it not some joe off the street with few months training.

[HotDamnItsDavid]

with reguard to striking he is right
I mean if you look at what passes for good boxing in mixed, and compare it to actual boxing
same with mthai or kickboxing
what he said is, well true

of course there is a great deal of skill in the grappling involved
but the striking is well below par
but with 4oz gloves, you don't need much skill
all you have to do is wing punches and you can score KO's or stunning shots

Dude go watch wrestling. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

[Spuddy]

I think your wrong, what makes you think boxers can hit more accurately? they have more glove space for contact. MMA fighters have gloves that are really small..needing more accuracy. I wouldnt say boxers can hit harder, its all dependent on the person. sure mike tyson can hit hard...but so can chuck liddell or fedor.

obviously MMA requires more skill than boxing. you learn a set of punches, and you just try to improve your speed/accuracy/power/combination/finesse of those set of punches..

in MMA theres always new moves coming out and nothing gets old.

boxing skill you learn to defend your torso/head. fairly easy but still a skill
but MMA you got to defend your torso/legs/head. your mind is racing a hundred miles an hour trying to figure if the guy is going to get inside and uppercut, or clinch, or go for a takedown. you got to make sure hes not faking with a strike and end up getting a low leg kick.

boxing your just like.."uh oh...hes going for my head or stomach...lets cover up"

*sigh* you know NOTHING about boxing. nothing.

do you honestly believe that defending yourself is that easy? i dont know what to say

[Kane Fan]

you can't strike (box, kickbox, Muay Thai) with good form in MMA because you have to be constantly defending (at least in your mind) for a takedown. its a world different going from just watching out for the other guys two hands to his two hands and feet and another world different to watch out for elbows, knees and takedowns.

ok but compare the striking SKILLS of say Arlovski to Tim Sylvia
now, Arlovski is (conservativly) twice as skilled
yet Tim has defeated him twice (even tho I'm iffy on thier third fight)
I mean really what great SKILL striking wise does Tim Sylvia have?
you can argue that Tim isn't a good example because of his height, but getting inside on a taller opponent is an aspect of striking
if height can get you buy, bottom line the striking skills of the org you are fighting in just arn't that high end

[Kane Fan]

I think MMA fighters are skilled, but I can easily see how a professional boxer or Muay Thai expert wouldnt think so. CHuck Liddell is known as the best striker in the UFC because he has numerous knockouts and arguably is the most dangerous fighter in the world. Yet his striking style is incredibly unorthodox.

I have done Muay Thai for many years and I look at him and dont feel that he is very skilled at all in Muay Thai. He throws looping punches, he has his chin in the air and his arms are rarely covering his jaw. Yet he is highly skilled in striking. To me, that just says he has perfected his own style of striking, which is just as skilled as a professional Muay Thai fighter.

Mirko Filipovic has the best Muay Thai fighting in MMA, but that doesnt mean he is the best striker, it just means he is the most skilled at that specific martial art

that's another good way of looking at it
how effective would Chuck's punches be if instead of 4 oz gloves he was wearing 10oz's?
the 4 oz gloves have a huge impact on what's required in terms of overall striking skills, because you do not need to land many to stack up the effects your looking for