Grape Seed Extract

[Peter LeDrew]

What brands, products are being recommended here. And prices?
Any concerns on quality esp. with respect to bulk powders, etc.?

[BiggJohn]

I've always used NOW brand.

[NO HYPE]

What brands, products are being recommended here.

I have always used MRM.

To assure product quality a variety of tests including Porter value units and HPLC are used to be sure that grape seed extract is free of contaminants and exceeds 100 mg of proanthocyanidins.

[VegetaGD]

I have always used MRM.

Is the consensus that in vivo GSE is proving to be a good natural AI?

[G.W. Hayduke]

Is it just the general polyphenols in GSE lending themselves to anti-aromatase or is it specifically the OPCs?

[brickhouse45]

hey bigguy66

Grape Seed Extract. Well you learn something everyday.

I have a lot of respect for HOOKER ( A. Roberts) I know him from some other boards, but i would never think grape extract would be part of a pct cycle. I do see the added info Hooker placed on his response to you though, this does make sense. So let me add my few cents.

For the future, hold on to the following. Any stack that raises or replaces your bodys own test level needs to be brought back down after 4 - 6 weeks. That goes for hard stuff under the counter and over the counter (OTC) stuff now being peddled; from Caspari, T bomb, San, IMd, etc,etc, etc.

Now 46, and I have never had a problem, except when i was young, stupid and thought i knew it all. A buddy of mine who is a ole die hard strongman
once pulled me to the side and pushed the following list in my pocket back in the day. For which I was ever grateful.

WHILE ON

Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Omega 3,
Fish Oil
Milk thistle
Evening Primrose Oil
Liver Cleanse - Everyone use liv 52 now

PCT
Saw Palmetto ( 4 caps at night before bed)
Tribilus Territus ( 2-3 caps, 3 x a day while awake 4, 3-6 weeks)
or Tribestan

People now, talk all sorts of **** about Tribilis, like it never did nothing. Well, I got 2 teenagers, living in the Caribbean with different mothers to prove the **** works; and i was pct-ing when they came along. Go figure.

DHEA - some do , some don't. A lot of young guys still over look the importance of this product. hey, this stuff keeps you hard like a rock untop and below, if you get my meaning, if you know what you are doing. Every month i pass try my local health food store and pick up 3 bottles (50mgs).
Hey just in case the suits decide to start banning **** again.

Start using during the middle to end of your stack. When you stack waking up with Big Lou, standing up lookin up at you, you know your system is priming back up. So start laying back on dosages.

Do some homework on dhea and you see, what it does tru your adrenal glands. test test test all the way. straight forward and legal. No hiding, no running, no looking behind your back for the fuzz.

Hey just my two cents.

Brick

[Lager1]

hey bigguy66

Grape Seed Extract. Well you learn something everyday.

I have a lot of respect for HOOKER ( A. Roberts) I know him from some other boards, but i would never think grape extract would be part of a pct cycle. I do see the added info Hooker placed on his response to you though, this does make sense. So let me add my few cents.

For the future, hold on to the following. Any stack that raises or replaces your bodys own test level needs to be brought back down after 4 - 6 weeks. That goes for hard stuff under the counter and over the counter (OTC) stuff now being peddled; from Caspari, T bomb, San, IMd, etc,etc, etc.

Now 46, and I have never had a problem, except when i was young, stupid and thought i knew it all. A buddy of mine who is a ole die hard strongman
once pulled me to the side and pushed the following list in my pocket back in the day. For which I was ever grateful.

WHILE ON

Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Omega 3,
Fish Oil
Milk thistle
Evening Primrose Oil
Liver Cleanse - Everyone use liv 52 now

PCT
Saw Palmetto ( 4 caps at night before bed)
Tribilus Territus ( 2-3 caps, 3 x a day while awake 4, 3-6 weeks)
or Tribestan

People now, talk all sorts of **** about Tribilis, like it never did nothing. Well, I got 2 teenagers, living in the Caribbean with different mothers to prove the **** works; and i was pct-ing when they came along. Go figure.

DHEA - some do , some don't. A lot of young guys still over look the importance of this product. hey, this stuff keeps you hard like a rock untop and below, if you get my meaning, if you know what you are doing. Every month i pass try my local health food store and pick up 3 bottles (50mgs).
Hey just in case the suits decide to start banning **** again.

Start using during the middle to end of your stack. When you stack waking up with Big Lou, standing up lookin up at you, you know your system is priming back up. So start laying back on dosages.

Do some homework on dhea and you see, what it does tru your adrenal glands. test test test all the way. straight forward and legal. No hiding, no running, no looking behind your back for the fuzz.

Hey just my two cents.

Brick

WTF are you talking about?

[TCR]

Is the consensus that in vivo GSE is proving to be a good natural AI?

In this study Cancer Res. 2006 Jun 1;66(11):5960-7. a dose of 50mg/kg was used in mice. Thats 5gs for a male bodybuilder weighing 100 kilos. Assuming that we respond the same as mice... which I can almost guarantee that we dont.

Probably if I were to use this I would dose myself at 100mg/kg, 10 grams of GSE anyone?

[brickhouse45]

Germanic

To use your own words, son! wtf do you read english!!!. i do.

I sugguested items one should be on if stacking any prohomone or anabolic which raises one's test, both pre and post cycle.

If you read properly you would see the importance of the items suggested, along with cleaning your system while onnn. ****, I didnt even mention the importance of keeping your colon clean when cycling off.

femerra, novaldex, clomid aint the only thing around to do the job. WTF do you think??? wat do you think bodybuilders was on before the above came around???? No wonder, you young guys have all the problems with even oTC stuff, no discipline.

Your f ing atititude show how much you know. Have a good life, son

brick

[brickhouse45]

TCR

I didn't have the chance to see or read that study but will. But let me throw this at you.

FYI. 50g to a mice = 5g for a 100 ilbs male according to the study you mentioned. So then how inconcievable is it for a 200 ilbs male to take 10g - 50 g of dhea to raise test without a problem, if you know what you are doing??

Of course, common sense would be the rule of the day.

brick

[Doughboy]

TCR

I didn't have the chance to see or read that study but will. But let me throw this at you.

FYI. 50g to a mice = 5g for a 100 ilbs male according to the study you mentioned. So then how inconcievable is it for a 200 ilbs male to take 10g - 50 g of dhea to raise test without a problem, if you know what you are doing??

Of course, common sense would be the rule of the day.

brick

I think he is talking about GSE not DHEA.

[TCR]

I think he is talking about GSE not DHEA.

Yes I was. Can we get back to GSE and get off talking about PCT, Maybe the people who want to talk about PCT could start a thread in steroids section and discuss it there.

[NO HYPE]

Is the consensus that in vivo GSE is proving to be a good natural AI?

in-vitro.... yes.

in-vivo.... not yet [that I am aware of].

Is it just the general polyphenols in GSE lending themselves to anti-aromatase or is it specifically the OPCs?

The suppression of aromatase and/or estrogen biosynthesis is attributed to the procyanidin B dimers.

[TCR]

One thing to note

Aromatase is not only inhibited by GSE but its amounts in the cell are decreased...

This occurs through a decrease in CREB-1 which then decreases expression of aromatase.
However...
"Suppression of aromatase by GSE through CREB-1 and GR may not be specific for inhibiting aromatase expression because CREB-1 and GR are also involved in regulation of other genes besides aromatase."

From wikipedia

"This gene encodes a CREB transcription factor that is a member of the leucine zipper family of DNA binding proteins. This protein binds as a homodimer to the cAMP-responsive element, an octameric palindrome. The protein is phosphorylated by several protein kinases, and induces transcription of genes in response to hormonal stimulation of the cAMP pathway. Alternate splicing of this gene results in two transcript variants encoding different isoforms.[1]"

What might the side effects be of downregulating these CREB sensitive genes?

But,
"Procyanidin B1 and B2 dimers and the monomers, such as catechin, epicatechin, and epicatechin gallate, were examined and found not to be active in the inhibition of the activity of promoter I.3/II or I.4 (data not shown)"

So the procyanidins inhibit aromatase, but not CREB (which is probably good, because bb need cAMP signalling).

Can anyone make a pure procyandin supplement, probably wouldnt need 5 grams of it to inhibit aromatase (unlike GSE). BTW the study does not mention how much procyandins was in the GSE... I might write to them and find out... This could be a great anti estrogen/test booster if we can get the dose right for humans

[weltweitefurcht]

I have taken this stuff for a long time, just because it's such a powerful antioxidant that's extremely good for your overall health, especially your heart and blood vessels.

I learned a while back that it helps stimulate collagen synthesis.

Now I learn that it has anti-estrogenic properties? This **** keeps gettin better and better.

I use nutra planet's grape seed extract powder.

Was thinking of getting the nutra planet powder as well.

Do you cap it? Or use a teaspoon or tablespoon and just swallow it? Mix it in liquid? How does it taste in powder form?

I'm trying to figure out if i should get a capsule maker for it or just put it in my mouth and drink something

[Urban Monk]

Is GSE something you would take everyday?

[Lager1]

Was thinking of getting the nutra planet powder as well.

Do you cap it? Or use a teaspoon or tablespoon and just swallow it? Mix it in liquid? How does it taste in powder form?

I'm trying to figure out if i should get a capsule maker for it or just put it in my mouth and drink something

It doesn't taste bad. Drink it with a fruit juice and it will be fine.

[crzyakta]

Unless someone is having issues with too much estrogen, do you think blocking aromatase expression too much will lead to other issues, ie bone loss or detrimental effects to libido (estrogen is required for this as well)

I have been on GSE at 200mg a day for about 2 years now, mainly because noted positive benefits to hairloss, but also because it has very good antioxidant properties

[TCR]

If you look at my post above you will see that using GSE as an antiaromatase in vivo is nearly impossible because of the high dose needed. Also it may or may not be a bad idea because other components in GSE besides the procyanidin B1 and B2 dimers inhibit transcription of the aromatase gene (as well as many other genes). Those other genes may be important to use. Unless you have a pure GSE extract of procyanidin B1 and B2 dimers I dont think this is an effective AI.

[NO HYPE]

The suppression of aromatase and/or estrogen biosynthesis is attributed to the procyanidin B dimers.

other components in GSE besides the procyanidin B1 and B2 dimers inhibit transcription of the aromatase gene

So if not CREB-1, what.... GR?

[MCEpidemic]

Wanted to up this thread to see if anyone else has experience with GSE and/or recommendations for dosage.

[VegetaGD]

Wanted to up this thread to see if anyone else has experience with GSE and/or recommendations for dosage.

Not yet, but the Country Life product Resveratrol Plus looks like an amazing place to start. It has T-Res, Grape Seed Extract, Grape Skin Extract, & Pine Bark Extract. I'll be dosing 3 capsules three times daily for 900 mg Res, 450mg grape seed, 225 grape skin, 225 mg pine bark

[MCEpidemic]

That looks like an amazing stack - I've been looking for something like that. Thanks, and repped.

[DR_P]

Is the consensus that in vivo GSE is proving to be a good natural AI?

the amount of hair-loss I get from megadosing GSE is comparable to the hairloss I got from MassFX + Hyperdrol X2 stack, which indicates a tremendous increase of free test and local DHT, which in turn is a good indicator of aromatase inhibitory activity.

[MCEpidemic]

What constitutes a megadose?

[VegetaGD]

What constitutes a megadose?

Yes...please explain. McEpidemic, are you talking about Res + by Country Life? Their brand passed a consumer reports res comparison with flying colors.

[DR_P]

What constitutes a megadose?

over 1 g per day.

[SouEu]

Was thinking of getting the nutra planet powder as well.

Do you cap it? Or use a teaspoon or tablespoon and just swallow it? Mix it in liquid? How does it taste in powder form?

I'm trying to figure out if i should get a capsule maker for it or just put it in my mouth and drink something

I add 1/4 tsp to each protein drink. It's kind of dry and bitter, but I don't really taste it in the protein drink.

[MCEpidemic]

Yes...please explain. McEpidemic, are you talking about Res + by Country Life? Their brand passed a consumer reports res comparison with flying colors.

Yeah, that was what I was talking about. I'll be investing in that very soon.

Over 1 g per day seems like a lot costwise...is there any word about the concentration of procyanidin B dimers in just regular grape juice? I got some concord grape juice the other day, and I take about 150 mL with 2 100 mg pills every night as my dosage. And how long should I be on it for, ideally? Maybe 8 weeks on, 2 weeks off?

[VegetaGD]

Yeah, that was what I was talking about. I'll be investing in that very soon.

Over 1 g per day seems like a lot costwise...is there any word about the concentration of procyanidin B dimers in just regular grape juice? I got some concord grape juice the other day, and I take about 150 mL with 2 100 mg pills every night as my dosage. And how long should I be on it for, ideally? Maybe 8 weeks on, 2 weeks off?

Can't answer your question about grape juice. As for the CL Res Plus, I don't know that you would need to megadose at your age to have some nice results. Try 6 caps a day & you'll be getting 300mg of GSE which should be plenty becuase res also has some AI properties...do us a favor and come back letting us know how it works for you.