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  1. #121
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nainoa View Post
    Dude... I'm seriously going to start negging you, if you don't let up this obsession with lifting while injured, or trying to find short cuts to get back into the weight room...
    Bro, I think you misunderstood my question. What I meant was WHEN I AM FINALLY HEALED will I be able to do wide grip and close grip lat pulldowns pain free? What about seated cable rows? I always hear about people who have this surgery that when they go back to lifting they always hurt when doing flat or incline bench press/dumbbell press but I never hear of people hurting when doing wide grip and close grip lat pulldowns. So I'll ask the question again:

    Can you guys who have had DCR surgery and are back to lifting do wide grip lat pulldowns, close grip lat pulldowns, and seated cable rows PAIN FREE right now? Or does doing those three lifts hurt too much to do them?
    Last edited by Crusher80; 06-09-2007 at 09:26 PM.
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  2. #122
    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    Bro, I think you misunderstood my question. What I meant was WHEN I AM FINALLY HEALED will I be able to do wide grip and close grip lat pulldowns pain free? What about seated cable rows? I always hear about people who have this surgery that when they go back to lifting they always hurt when doing flat or incline bench press/dumbbell press but I never hear of people hurting when doing wide grip and close grip lat pulldowns. So I'll ask the question again:

    Can you guys who have had DCR surgery and are back to lifting do wide grip lat pulldowns, close grip lat pulldowns, and seated cable rows PAIN FREE right now? Or does doing those three lifts hurt too much to do them?
    Crusher, I'm 6 months out from the surgery and I have no pain, at all. I can do any lift that I could before the surgery. I went from a 185 Bench last week to a set of 205, this week. I could work a heavy bag, if I felt so inclined. I can punch, lift, push and pull with no pain. It doesn't matter whether it's a wide, narrow or intermediate grip, over or supine. You're still young, so if I can heal so will you. I can do angled pull downs with about 300lbs, no pain. I do straight Lat pull downs with my own body weight. I can do chin ups and chest dips. I do standing rows with a loaded barbell, no pain from my shoulder.

    Like we've all been saying. Take it easy for a few months. Keep stretching the shoulder so it doesn't tighten up. It's far easier to stretch it as it heals rather than wait until everything gets stiff. Stretch it GENTLY. Listen to the Therapists, use the Ice Packs. I have 100% mobility, about 85% of my original power and all of my original speed. Now that I've passed the pain point, I fully expect to be back to 100% within the next 6 weeks. Muscle memory is a wonderful thing.

    You're getting way to neurotic about this. Give it time. You didn't get any MMA skill overnight, you're not going to get healed overnight. Like the MMA, it takes time and practice. In the case of the shoulder, it takes time and therapy, as well as patience. Kick back, get a Protein Shake and chill. Let Mother Nature do her thing and you do your therapy. You'll heal back to 100%, but it will take time. Hit the treadmill or work your legs and core to burn off that nervous energy. Even with a wounded shoulder, you can still work the heavy bag with your feet. Just NO PUNCHING. Build up your abs and laterals to absorb that nasty little body shot. You can still run and bike. Use the time to work on your Cardio and lower body. and quit being so d****d neurotic about it. You keep asking the same questions, hoping for a different set of answers. There aren't any other answers. So, SIT! HEEL! HEAL!!!!! You're working yourself into a frothing frenzy for no reason. Keep this up and one of us is going to be in a Straight Jacket. ;-)
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  3. #123
    Registered User grebnehtor's Avatar
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    5 weeks post op

    Here is five weeks post operation. I woke up this morning more depressed than ever due to not lifting or really wanting to go to the gym much. I guess I just needed a break or something (I've been going through a lot of girl and emotional problems as well).

    My shoulder still exhibits symptoms of "pain" when I thrust my shoulder forward or place my arm extremely above my head and towards the back. This isn't "extreme" pain, but there is pain at the AC Joint. I know this is still healing because I am only six weeks post operation. I AM AMAZED AT HOW LONG THIS IS TAKING.

    Last week, I went to the gym and benched 135 pounds. It probably wasn't a good idea for my joint, but oh did feel well for my muscles. I haven't exhibited any more pain from doing so, but I don't think I want to jump back into lifting as I did before.

    My questions:

    Will I ever have that youthful feeling again, enjoy going to the gym and increasing my strength as I did before?

    Can I ever damage the scar tissue in the future?

    Will this ****ing pain ever go away?

    Can I move on from this injury?

    I am sorry for the down beat post, but I'm beat by my own body. It's rough, but I really want a light at the end of this tunnel. It's rough being a 20 year old and having this problem (I feel old and worn??).
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  4. #124
    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    You'll be fine

    [QUOTE=grebnehtor;51241121]
    My shoulder still exhibits symptoms of "pain" when I thrust my shoulder forward or place my arm extremely above my head and towards the back. This isn't "extreme" pain, but there is pain at the AC Joint. I know this is still healing because I am only six weeks post operation. I AM AMAZED AT HOW LONG THIS IS TAKING.

    Last week, I went to the gym and benched 135 pounds. It probably wasn't a good idea for my joint, but oh did feel well for my muscles. I haven't exhibited any more pain from doing so, but I don't think I want to jump back into lifting as I did before.

    My questions:

    Will I ever have that youthful feeling again, enjoy going to the gym and increasing my strength as I did before?QUOTE]

    If you're lifting at five weeks, give yourself a good solid whack up the side of the head. Don't do that!!!!!! Keep in mind that the pain you had before was caused by irritation, What you're feeling now was caused by trauma. Different critter all together. Your shoulder has been carved on and parts have been removed. You're going to have pain and discomfort for quite some time.

    I had problems simply putting on a short for the first 3 months. Granted, I'm an old fart compared to you guys, (52) but it does take time. I'm just a bit over the 6 months Post Op point. Two weeks ago, I was fully 100% pain free. I had the clavicle work as well as having the actual shoulder joint opened and cleaned. I was full of bone spurs. I'm pushing 205 on the bench and I hope to be back around 245 by August.

    I was back to about 70-80% in about 12 to 14 weeks. This is about the correct time to get a bone to heal. I'm guessing it's about the same for the ligament that was carved up for the DCR.

    Yeah, going to hurt like hell and it will seem to take forever. That is, unfortunately, normal. Get a large Ice Pack that covers the front, back and delt all at once. It seems to work best if the shoulder is iced down in all directions. The cold seems to penetrate deeper and do more good. Keep up the therapy exercises. At this point, you're going for endurance, not power. Using the little wussy weights ( I had 2lbs dumbbells) causes a pump directly into the affected area. This pushes nutrient rich blood into the area that is damaged and speeds the healing. Forcing the area will undo the healing you've already accomplished. The Ice Pack is for after the pump ends and the other fluids come back. Lowering the swelling takes pressure off of the area and reduces the pain.

    Put the heavy weights away for a couple more months. They'll still be there when you're healed. Keep GENTLY stretching the area. The butterfly will come back, but it's going to take some time.
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  5. #125
    morbidly brobese XpandemoniumX's Avatar
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    i have a question to the OP or whoever i guess...usually i don't think much of the quirks of my body but when you said that your injury showed itself in painful popping of the shoulder i was like hmmm that sounds familiar. my shoulders definitely are weird...i used to be able to dislocate my left shoulder upon will but i stopped doing that a little before i started doing weights...(in the beginning i could feel it coming out of the socket when i was doing heavy weights, now its better). anyway both my shoulders make loud popping noises when i do lateral arm raises and i'm wondering if you had this too before your injury got bad.
    awww yeaaa 9 month knee injuries are fun as hell!
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  6. #126
    Bearmode Gr8Ape's Avatar
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    My shoulder has been hurting me for over a year and a half now, but right now im feeling very good. However, there is always the feeling that its still a there a little bit and that it could come back any time....

    I have also noticed my 2 clavicles are asymmetrical. One of them (the one on the side that is fine) is much more proeminent. Also, the clavicle of the hurt shoulder clicks and pops when i roll my shoulders in full ROM (exaggerated movement, but the other shoulder does not click and pop when I do the same movement). Could these be symptoms of Distal calvicle osteolysis?

    Plz give me your input on this........i just want it to go away
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  7. #127
    Registered User grebnehtor's Avatar
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    Yes, these are the symptoms that I had, and they got worse. I had the surgery because of these painful symptoms. My AC joints are symetrical and everything, they always were, it was just the joint that was destroyed. I recomend that you rest for two months and do no overhead activicty. I know you probably wont, and that you will probably go back to the gym within a week, but I seriously think that you would get a healthy shoulder if you would just rest. Maybe slight activity modification would help you, but your "JOINT," not ligiments or muscle, is injured. This part is more fundamental. I got the surgery because I didn't believe in rest, nor did I believe in this injury. Now you bet my ass I do. Good luck, and please post on your symptoms and reovery.
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  8. #128
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    Well in the last weeks my shoulder has been getting better since i started doing this 2-3 times a week:

    3 sets 15-20 reps side cable lat raise/rotator cuff (you basically start holding a pulley opposite to the side holding it, then perform a lat raise and external rotation simultaneously)
    3 sets front raises 15-20

    light weight is used of course.

    Now its getting pretty good, and i do most of the stuff i usually did, except for military presses. Im jsut afraid its gonna come back for no reason again. I never did have loss of ROM, and flexibility was never a concern........
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  9. #129
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbrunner00 View Post
    If you're lifting at five weeks, give yourself a good solid whack up the side of the head. Don't do that!!!!!!...Keep up the therapy exercises. At this point, you're going for endurance, not power. Using the little wussy weights ( I had 2lbs dumbbells) causes a pump directly into the affected area. This pushes nutrient rich blood into the area that is damaged and speeds the healing. Put the heavy weights away for a couple more months.
    dbrunner, I'm confused.

    On one hand you say that grebnehtor should not be lifting at 6 weeks post op...but than you say that he should continue doing his therapy exercises but with light weights. Does that mean that he can do his pre surgery lifting routine (bench press, lat pulldowns, front raises, etc.) but that he should be using light weights?

    Or does that mean that he shouldn't be doing his pre surgery lifting routine (bench press, lat pulldowns, front raises, etc.) but that he CAN do his rehab exercises? If that's true, what exercises should he (and me) be doing right now that won't aggravate the AC joint?

    And at how many weeks post op can we return to our pre surgery lifting routines?

    In case you guys are wondering, I keep referencing me and grebnehtor as 'we' because we both had our surgeries around the same time (I had mine on May 7, 2007 and he had his on May 10, 2007).
    Last edited by Crusher80; 06-15-2007 at 09:26 AM.
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  10. #130
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    When healing, light weights are your best friend!!!!
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  11. #131
    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    Weight Issue

    When I say no lifting, I'm refering to what we were doing before. The Therapy exercises are with VERY light weights or bands. The idea is to build the endurance of the damaged muscles and ligaments and pump blood into the damaged area. Lifting a heavier weight, even a fraction of what we used to lift, risks damaging what we've healed. The heaviest I lifted for weeks was a 2.0lb dumbbell. Yep, two pounds. But, I was doing three sets of 50 and several different exercises. Most of the exercises were designed to strengthen the damaged deltoids and the muscles that are stretched across the scapula. These little muscles help to stabilize the shoulder. Weakness in this area is one of the things that helped trash my shouder in the first place.
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  12. #132
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbrunner00 View Post
    I was doing three sets of 50 and several different exercises. Most of the exercises were designed to strengthen the damaged deltoids and the muscles that are stretched across the scapula. These little muscles help to stabilize the shoulder.
    Anyway you can share with us what those exercises are that me and grebnehtor should be doing right now?

    Also, if you can link to a website that shows how to do those exercises, that would be fantastic.
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  13. #133
    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    Wink A couple of suggestions

    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    Anyway you can share with us what those exercises are that me and grebnehtor should be doing right now?

    Also, if you can link to a website that shows how to do those exercises, that would be fantastic.
    Fair Enough. Try:

    http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/booklet/vi...egory=Shoulder

    http://patients.uptodate.com/topic.a...=bone_joi/8530

    http://www.shouldersurgeon.com/shoul...rapy/index.htm

    This last one is similar to what I was given when I had mine. Try hitting the Search Engines with "Shoulder Therapy Exercises". After a few weeks, I started doing many of the exercises in the first link with a 2lb dumbbell or bands. I think the color specifies the strength. I was using the green, at about 3X50, daily. After about three months, I moved into 10-20lb dumbbells. I stayed there for several weeks. Hurt a bit, but I could feel that I was getting stronger. I stayed at the lower weights until I could get at least 40 Reps, per exercise, with the dumbbells. I still work at about 25-35 lbs for Delt work, but I do a straight out extension with a 45lb plate. I'm up to 40lb Dbells for a Seated Military Press. No pain.
    Last edited by dbrunner00; 06-14-2007 at 09:26 PM.
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  14. #134
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    Do you KNOW it takes 12 to 14 weeks?

    Originally Posted by dbrunner00 View Post
    I was back to about 70-80% in about 12 to 14 weeks. This is about the correct time to get a bone to heal.
    Why do you think it takes 12 to 14 weeks for a bone to heal? Did you hear that from a doctor or is that just your opinion? I'm very interested to know how long it takes for the cut end of the clavicle to heal. If that's true that it takes 12 to 14 weeks, than seeing that I'm only at 5 1/2 weeks post op...I'm not even half way there!

    I'm also very interested to know how long it takes for scar tissue to form where that excised AC joint was.
    Last edited by Crusher80; 06-15-2007 at 09:32 AM.
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    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    Healing Time

    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    Why do you think it takes 12 to 14 weeks for a bone to heal? Did you hear that from a doctor or is that just your opinion? I'm very interested to know how long it takes for the cut end of the clavicle to heal. If that's true that it takes 12 to 14 weeks, than seeing that I'm only at 5 1/2 weeks post op...I'm not even half way there!

    I'm also very interested to know how long it takes for scar tissue to form where that excised AC joint was.
    The healing of the bone, itself, is not the issue. It's the surrounding and support tissues that are taking the time. This link is about the surgery I had:

    http://www.drgartsman.com/shoulder_a..._resection.asp

    Here are a couple of more that just give a general idea.:

    http://www.umm.edu/orthopaedic/rotator_cuff.htm
    http://www.wisegeek.com/how-long-do-...ke-to-heal.htm

    The conscensus is pretty close on all of them. It's going to be about 4 months (12-15 weeks) before you can really get back to anything serious, provided you don't stress the shoulder and do more damage.

    As far as bone healing, it takes about 3-4 weeks for a bone to heal in a child. It goes up to 4-7 for a teenager. As we get older, it takes longer. I've got a couple of ideas as to the reason, but since I'm not a Doctor, I'll keep my mouth shut.

    As far as being "Only Half Way There", you're right. You're actually a little shy of the half way point. Face it, your mortality is showing. It's going to take a while to heal. You're not 14 anymore. Your body has matured and the bone structure is fixed. No fudge factor anymore. Chomping on the bit like you are isn't going to make you heal faster, but it will give you sore teeth. ;-)

    To the best of my somewhat limited knowledge, there is no radical way to make things heal faster. I doubt if things like IR irradiation or electro-stimulation therapy will be of much use. Keeping your diet clean is, IMHO, one of the best things you can do. Possibly supplementing with Calcium might, I repeat MIGHT help things along, a little. High protein diets have been documented as helping the healing. Combine the clean diet with the Therapy exercises and get a good pump into the damaged areas is probably the best thing you can do. You need to feed the tissue around the damage. Good diet and the pump are the best ways to do it.

    Sorry folks, I know everyone would like to cut the recovery time to about 4 weeks and get back to the gym and life in general. The pain now is worse than what it was before the surgery. But, like many of the good things in life, there are no short cuts. You're going to have to wuss out and nurse the shoulder. No way around it. You're going to have to be patient and approach it with a cold, methodical determination. Just like you take a hard look at your build, and then plan a strategy for the gym, you need to do the same thing here. Plan it out, realistically.

    If you go into many search engines and look for "Clavicular Resection Recovery Time", it will toss out a few pages. Same for "Shoulder Surgery". But, what few that give some real idea of time and needs, all say about the same thing. It's 12-15 weeks and it's going to be sore. They also tell you that at the 12-15 week time frame, you have mobility and about 80% of your strength. They say something like "Limited Discomfort". This applies to day to day stuff, not throwing around a 250lb Barbell. The average person does not put their bodies through what we do. They also can't see their belt buckle.
    ;-)

    Being somewhat senior to most of you, I remember a Builder named Dave Draper. I think a few of you may have heard of him. ;-) If my memory serves right, he broke a collar bone sometime during his Bodybuilding career. Now, if he can heal from it and look like he did, and still does, I think that there's a bit of hope for us.

    I am, on the average, about twice as old as most of the people on this thread. It took me a little over 26 weeks to get to the point that I can throw some SERIOUS stress on my shoulder without pain. I also had an Acronial Resectioning along with the DCR. Hopefully, you youngsters will heal somewhat faster than I did. I did Inclined Presses with 40lb dumbbells for weeks. I dug them in deep, pulling the elbows back and in to stretch the shoulder joint. On occasion, it hurt like Hell. The idea was to bust loose the scar tissue that had formed in the wrong areas and get maximum mobility in the joints. Anything more than that and the shoulder simply could not get over the leverage at that angle and I couldn't make the lift. For me, the best thing to do was to work on the mobility. The power would return by itself after the mobility was established and the area fully healed. Apparently, it seems to be working. When I got past the pain barrier a couple of weeks ago, the power started coming back. I can do the same exercise now, with a pair of 60's. There is still some discomfort. But, this is from taking them deep and stetching the joints, not directly from the injury. I could probably push 80's if I did cheater sets. But, it was some time after the surgery that I could move past the little girlie weights and get back into the gym. Even after that, it was probably about 4 months Post Op that I really started getting into anything heavier, involving the shoulder.

    Have patience, youngsters, life will get better. At this point in recovery, your Ice Pack is your best friend. And, I still haven't gotten any handles on this soap box. ;-)
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  16. #136
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    I notice if I take my two fingers (index and middle finger) of my other hand and I tap on the bone part of the AC joint that was cut it is very sensitive to the tap. Why is that? Does that means something is wrong or is that natural to feel at 6 weeks post op?

    Another thing that hurts is if I take my bad arm and reach over and scratch the front part of my good shoulder. That KILLS!!!

    Basically anything I do that compresses or activates the AC joint kills my shoulder. I guess that's normal for 6 weeks post op. Is it?
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  17. #137
    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    Yep

    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    I notice if I take my two fingers (index and middle finger) of my other hand and I tap on the bone part of the AC joint that was cut it is very sensitive to the tap. Why is that? Does that means something is wrong or is that natural to feel at 6 weeks post op?

    Another thing that hurts is if I take my bad arm and reach over and scratch the front part of my good shoulder. That KILLS!!!

    Basically anything I do that compresses or activates the AC joint kills my shoulder. I guess that's normal for 6 weeks post op. Is it?

    Yep. Normal. Sorry.You've got deep bruising. Gonna be sensitive for quite awhile longer.
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  18. #138
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbrunner00 View Post
    Yep. Normal. Sorry.You've got deep bruising. Gonna be sensitive for quite awhile longer.
    Yeah but it's been 6 weeks. Should it still be sensitive like this?

    I'm starting to think I'll never be able to hit a heavybag again.
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    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    Yeah but it's been 6 weeks. Should it still be sensitive like this?

    I'm starting to think I'll never be able to hit a heavybag again.
    I swear you're an old woman at heart. You're going to be OK, if you don't do anything stupid. Let it rest. It will take several months for it to heal to where you can do what you want to. You keep asking the same questions hoping for different answers. These are the only answers you're going to get. If you are that concerned, go talk to your surgeon. But, I'm willing to put lunch on it that he'll tell you the same thing you've been getting here. It's going to take some time. You need to heal. It was close to three months before I could get back to doing a bit of what I wanted. Now, at 6 months out I could wail on a heavy bag with no pain to my shoulder. Use your Ice Pack and kick back. If you are really sweating this, talk to your Surgeon. He has far more knowledge of this than anyone in this thread, unless we have a shoulder specialist lurking.

    And, with that note, I'll be bowing out of the thread for the next couple of weeks. I'm taking my daughter on vacation and I can assure you that I'm not taking this laptop with me. ;-) I will now stow my soap box for future usage. ;-)
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  20. #140
    Registered User dwhite1230's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    I notice if I take my two fingers (index and middle finger) of my other hand and I tap on the bone part of the AC joint that was cut it is very sensitive to the tap. Why is that? Does that means something is wrong or is that natural to feel at 6 weeks post op?

    Another thing that hurts is if I take my bad arm and reach over and scratch the front part of my good shoulder. That KILLS!!!

    Basically anything I do that compresses or activates the AC joint kills my shoulder. I guess that's normal for 6 weeks post op. Is it?
    Are you kidding me? Why in the world would you ask that question on an internet forum.... your 6 weeks post op, hmmm maybe you should ask the doctor that did the surgery!!?
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    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dwhite1230 View Post
    Are you kidding me? Why in the world would you ask that question on an internet forum.... your 6 weeks post op, hmmm maybe you should ask the doctor that did the surgery!!?
    I have asked my doc. He says I'm still early on with this. But I've heard alot of horror stories from people who have had DCRs who are worse off after the surgery than before. That scares me.
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    My clavicle is clicking and popping like crazy when make a circular shrugging motion...........wtf?
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  23. #143
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    ATTN. grebnehtor

    Hey grebnehtor, we are about 6 weeks post op. I still feel discomfort when I rub my fingers into the area of the AC joint that was cut off. It is very tender to the touch when I rub and massage the area of the clavicle that was cut off. Do you feel the same thing?

    I really don't think that is normal for 6 weeks post op.
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  24. #144
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    Hey guys don't mean to try and hijack your thread but those who have had a Type II AC Separation thread, were you able to bench press normal again after it healed?
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  25. #145
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    I just went to a specialist this morning because I have had this new pain in my left shoulder since June 9th. Doc told me I had Osteolysis of the Distal Clavicle and gave me a cortisone shot. Previously I could move my shoulder and only certain movements would bring pain. Now that it has been 7 hours since the shot my shoulder hurts worse and has "frozen" up. My hand is tingling a little like it was asleep.

    Is this normal? Also want to follow the progress of the two guys that have just recently had the surgery as that was mentioned as an option by the Doc.
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  26. #146
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    Six weeks post op

    Greetings everyone, I am now six weeks post op. I have complete range of motion, although I think some scar tissue within my joint is causing some clunking to occur throughout the joint. I am still a little depressed because I haven't been able to perform at the level that I have wanted to perform. I have been doing light weights, and that has helped a little.

    To answer Crusher's question, yes, my joint is still slightly tender to the touch. It doesn't feel painless like my right shoulder's AC joint. I guess this will go away in one and a half months.

    The other day at the gym, I did 10 painless, no pain at all, pull ups. Afterwards I did some flys with some dumb bells. This caused some inflammation in the joint, which I felt the next day.

    I also notice that when I don't get enough sleep, my joint begins to hurt and feel painful the next day.
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  27. #147
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    grebnehtor, 6 weeks post op is kind of soon for you to be lifting weights, don't you think? I'm gonna give it 6 more weeks (which will be 13 weeks post op) and than I'm gonna start some LIGHT weightlifting. Hopefully 6 weeks from now my shoulder will be feeling alot better than it is now.
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  28. #148
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    I am only doing rotator cuff strengthening exercises and bicept/ tricept exercises. I don't think I am doing anything crazy. I am seeing my orthopedist on Monday, so I'll ask him.
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  29. #149
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    Crusher

    It is good to hear you finally practicing some restraint. Everyone heals at a different rate. With everything you had done in the last year, I am glad you decided to take a little time. Greb, I am glad you are progressing well. I remember how great it felt when I reached your point in recovery. It felt pretty good to hold a weight in my hands again. I wish you both luck.
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  30. #150
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lcamino View Post
    I wish you both luck.
    Thanks bro. I'll keep you posted.
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