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  1. #991
    Registered User bluehendrix's Avatar
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    Thank you for your response. It gives me hope that I can also recover without surgery. I am certain mine is the result of heavy bench press / weighted dips. At first I thought it was an AC joint sprain, as that also seems to be a dip/bench related injury, but the fuzzy clavicle end on the X-Ray confirmed DCO. I'm willing to give up dips, but I'd like to keep bench press in my routine (once I'm recovered). It's a discouraging injury because it's not debilitating but takes forever to heal. I'm about 5 months out. So far it still aches and I know if I were to do some pushups or bench it would flare up and then the ache turns into a prolonged burn.

    Either it heals on its own, or I'm getting the surgery. The plan right now is no upper body lifting. Only legs.

    I'll update this thread along the way.
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  2. #992
    Registered User hajdugabor's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bluehendrix View Post
    Thank you for your response. It gives me hope that I can also recover without surgery. I am certain mine is the result of heavy bench press / weighted dips. At first I thought it was an AC joint sprain, as that also seems to be a dip/bench related injury, but the fuzzy clavicle end on the X-Ray confirmed DCO. I'm willing to give up dips, but I'd like to keep bench press in my routine (once I'm recovered). It's a discouraging injury because it's not debilitating but takes forever to heal. I'm about 5 months out. So far it still aches and I know if I were to do some pushups or bench it would flare up and then the ache turns into a prolonged burn.

    Either it heals on its own, or I'm getting the surgery. The plan right now is no upper body lifting. Only legs.

    I'll update this thread along the way.
    Good luck to you! Be patient. What you really have to do at this stage is to rest it & eliminate all problematic lifts from your routine. With time you wil be able to reintroduce them, gradually. I got to the stage for a few months now that I don`t think about it on a daily basis as it doesn`t hurt all all. It`s like out of sight out of mind. But I still know I have to be careful and if I see/feel that certain movements might aggrevate it I stop and take them out for a time. I don`t think it was a surprise at all that I had my issues in the middle of the pandemic as I had set up my home gym shortly before and with the limited equipment available, I started doing heavy strength training without proper rotation of different phases and I had no specilty bars let alone machines. I now have more bars available and the difference is astonishing! Football bar for instance has been great as it puts less stress on my shoulder, I remember I used it for weeks on end when I couldn`t bench press with a straight bar. What I`m trying to say is that with access to a proper gym with different equipment, recovery could be a breeze! You could try different bench press & row machines. I do miss the gym environment in this sense and I do venture to say I would never have had my issues in the first place, had I still have access to a gym during the pandemic. The limited equipment limits you and that`s when the issues start..
    Last edited by hajdugabor; 06-04-2021 at 06:33 AM.
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  3. #993
    Registered User Goldengoal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hajdugabor View Post
    Hey, very similar story here, I`m 39 and after 20 years of lifting I developed DCO on my right shoulder, quite mild discomfort, I take a minimal amount of joint support which is standard anyway. It started worse about 4-5 month ago but got much better to the point where I have full pain free range of motion now. Basically, it only affects me if I try to bench press the same way I did before albeit with some modifications ( close grip instead of wide for instance) I`m still able to do it but with less volume. I also went to one of the best Orthopedic surgeon in London and after a couple of X rays he told me that he definitely doesn`t recommend keyhole surgery as he said he had seen worse cases with no symptoms before.
    I`m also in the same dilemma as I read a few cases where someone was having pain 1-2 years post op which I definitely don`t want to risk. But then I also realized most of these people had an actual injury, a major trauma to the A/C joint where they were in constant pain to begin with. So for now I`m leaning in the direction to be patient and see how it goes in the next few months although with Covid now I`m working from home so I`m in a perfect spot to recover.
    Happy to discuss it in details, perhaps we can learn from each other?
    Hey bud, I live in London as well and have the same issue. Out of curiosity, which surgeon did you see? I’ve seen two so far (Dr. Tony Kochhar and Dr. Andrew Wallace) both saying my case was mild so basically it was a toss up if I wanted to pull the trigger on surgery.
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  4. #994
    Registered User hajdugabor's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Goldengoal View Post
    Hey bud, I live in London as well and have the same issue. Out of curiosity, which surgeon did you see? I’ve seen two so far (Dr. Tony Kochhar and Dr. Andrew Wallace) both saying my case was mild so basically it was a toss up if I wanted to pull the trigger on surgery.
    Dr Simon Owen-Johnstone at the Shard. I chose him because he is speciliasing in upper limbs.
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  5. #995
    Registered User bluehendrix's Avatar
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    hajdugabor,

    Did you have any popping, crunching or slipping in your joint? My pain has mostly subsided and I'm thinking about easing into workouts again, but I have some slipping going on that was not there prior to the onset of osteolysis.
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  6. #996
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    Originally Posted by bluehendrix View Post
    hajdugabor,

    Did you have any popping, crunching or slipping in your joint? My pain has mostly subsided and I'm thinking about easing into workouts again, but I have some slipping going on that was not there prior to the onset of osteolysis.
    Yes I had popping and crunching. Not sure about the slipping. I am now back to lifting and as the shoulder get stronger I have less and less abnormal sounds and pain has greatly diminished. I'd like to say to zero, but when I load a back squat the first one can be a bit painful, but the rest get better.

    Don't do what I did -- I started back with a number of isolated movements only to find just how weak all of my supporting muscles were, then injured my forearm. I've primarily switched to compound movements and generally feel better. Working back in some lighter isolated movements.
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  7. #997
    Registered User TrustTheScience's Avatar
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    Since this is the offical DCR thread, has anyone had a "mini" mumford where they take out minimal bone vs the usual operation?
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  8. #998
    Registered User hajdugabor's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bluehendrix View Post
    hajdugabor,

    Did you have any popping, crunching or slipping in your joint? My pain has mostly subsided and I'm thinking about easing into workouts again, but I have some slipping going on that was not there prior to the onset of osteolysis.
    I occasionally have some popping, had it pre DCO too. No slipping though.
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  9. #999
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    Originally Posted by hajdugabor View Post
    Hey, very similar story here, I`m 39 and after 20 years of lifting I developed DCO on my right shoulder, quite mild discomfort, I take a minimal amount of joint support which is standard anyway. It started worse about 4-5 month ago but got much better to the point where I have full pain free range of motion now. Basically, it only affects me if I try to bench press the same way I did before albeit with some modifications ( close grip instead of wide for instance) I`m still able to do it but with less volume. I also went to one of the best Orthopedic surgeon in London and after a couple of X rays he told me that he definitely doesn`t recommend keyhole surgery as he said he had seen worse cases with no symptoms before.
    I`m also in the same dilemma as I read a few cases where someone was having pain 1-2 years post op which I definitely don`t want to risk. But then I also realized most of these people had an actual injury, a major trauma to the A/C joint where they were in constant pain to begin with. So for now I`m leaning in the direction to be patient and see how it goes in the next few months although with Covid now I`m working from home so I`m in a perfect spot to recover.
    Happy to discuss it in details, perhaps we can learn from each other?
    so i haven't got the surgery yet. i had another cortisone shot done in December of 2020 and that helped a lot. come about March 2021 and i started feeling the pain in the back of my shoulder for some reason. went to the doc, did another MRI, what do you know, i have a labrum tear now.. meanwhile, MRI shows that my clavicle is healing up and surgery most likely wouldn't be needed, but labrum tear doesn't heal on its own, so surgery will most likely need to be performed. doc said if i opt for surgery, since he will already be in the shoulder he could just clean up the area around the distal clavicle. i did physical therapy for about a month an a half for the torn labrum (called SLAP tear) and it was making that area hurt more, the more exercises i did. i stopped for a couple weeks and the pain subsided. really considering surgery on the labrum since i'm almost 40 and don't want to risk it getting worse. doc said the recovery for that is long, about 4-6 months and i would be in a sling for about 3-4 weeks right after surgery, def not looking forward to that. i think i'll go back to therapy for another month and get really on it see if the shoulder muscles strengthening will do the trick or make me feel better. really want to avoid any surgeries honestly.

    off topic: i don't get notifications for replies, is that normal?
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  10. #1000
    Registered User mtlcruisin's Avatar
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    I am going for my 4th operation on my right shoulder (labral tear 10 years ago, acriomioplasty/distal clavicle recession x 2 and now going to be 3). Unfortunately, my bones are still hitting and causing inflammation, so I need a 3rd bone recession. I had used an initial surgeon who left a piece of the clavicle and needed a new surgeon. During this journey, I have learned a lot about the shoulder. If a lot of you still have pain 12+ months after surgery, I would suggest looking at an MRI/Ultra Sound to see if you are still experiencing impingement. My MRI didn't show much aside from edema but an US where my shoulder was moved showed it. I am seeing a highly regarded surgeon (he did my last operation) so I feel confident this will be my last surgery!
    Last edited by mtlcruisin; 09-24-2021 at 05:29 AM.
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  11. #1001
    Registered User ncp237's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mtlcruisin View Post
    I am going for my 4th operation on my right shoulder (labral tear 10 years ago, acriomioplasty/distal clavicle recession x 2 and now going to be 3). Unfortunately, my bones are still hitting and causing inflammation, so I need a 3rd bone recession. I had used an initial surgeon who left a piece of the clavicle and needed a new surgeon. During this journey, I have learned a lot about the shoulder. If a lot of you still have pain 12+ months after surgery, I would suggest looking at an MRI/Ultra Sound to see if you are still experiencing impingement. My MRI didn't show much aside from edema but an US where my shoulder was moved showed it. I am seeing a highly regarded surgeon (he did my last operation) so I feel confident this will be my last surgery!
    Can you describe the symptoms of your lingering pain 12+ months post surgery?

    I am currently at 10.5 months post surgery, and still consider myself worse off than before. My shoulder hurts during normal, every day activities now that never used to bother it, eg: leaning on it in a chair, sometimes even walking from the swinging. I would describe it as a dull ache. Interestingly I do not seem to have any sensitivity to pressure on the top of the joint however, so I am beginning to wonder if these new symptoms are now a separate issue from before and were introduced from surgery. I have had an xray which indicated a successful procedure from an anatomical perspective, but have not had any other imaging.
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  12. #1002
    Registered User mtlcruisin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ncp237 View Post
    Can you describe the symptoms of your lingering pain 12+ months post surgery?

    I am currently at 10.5 months post surgery, and still consider myself worse off than before. My shoulder hurts during normal, every day activities now that never used to bother it, eg: leaning on it in a chair, sometimes even walking from the swinging. I would describe it as a dull ache. Interestingly I do not seem to have any sensitivity to pressure on the top of the joint however, so I am beginning to wonder if these new symptoms are now a separate issue from before and were introduced from surgery. I have had an xray which indicated a successful procedure from an anatomical perspective, but have not had any other imaging.
    So, believe it or not, I've had a total of 6 surgeries (both sides labral tear), and I am due for 2 more (revision DCE R and bone cyst removal L). So, on my left side, when I had an acromioplasty, I still had a sharp pain on cross body/overhead movements and slight burn. The revision was done and that issue is gone, but my original surgeon did not address my bone cyst (hence I am with a new surgeon who is highly regarded in NA and has experience with that). On my right side, after my first surgery there was part of the DC still left. My new surgeon removed the hook and I am 75% better but I still have burning and my joint is still slightly sensitive. The burning occurs when I lean on things, cross body, overhead (slight pinch too on the joint). Xrays can not tell sufficiently on the spacing. You would need an MRI at minimum. So, my new surgeon also had me do an US where my shoulder was manipulated and they saw that my bones were still touching when my shoulder went cross bod. Do you have any burning at all away from the acromion and on your DC? That's usually a sign of inflammation/edema. You would need a surgeon to review the actual MRI images, maybe you have a bone spur that grew but you are the only one who can gauge your discomfort and what plan you want to take.

    I would say 10.5 months post op and still discomfort for a DCE is time to start exploring your options. I can't recommend my new surgeon enough, he is in the baseball field and was able to pinpoint all my issues that many top Canadian private surgeons couldn't find. He was a bit conservative in my 2nd revision but that's because it works for 95% of patients and apparently I have highly elastic bones which require even more space. Revision surgery is not uncommon as much as it sucks having to go under the knife again.
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  13. #1003
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    I am just 10 days shy of one year mumford procedure post op.

    I am worse off than prior to surgery, and don't believe I have shown any improvement in the last six months, so I am not hopeful that any healing is left to be made.

    Things that caused pain prior to surgery included weight lifting, carrying heavy backpack (I was into mountaineering and backpacking), and prolonged stress on the joint like when snowmobiling. I was otherwise able to live a pain free life, as normal activities did not bother the shoulder in the slightest.

    I now have regular ache in the joint on a daily basis. Leaning on it aggravates it, as does any real motion in the arm like running. It is tolerable and I've learned to live with it, but it is a life-changing disappointment to be saddled with.

    I have had an X-ray that shows a successful procedure with no anomaly, along with an MRI that was compared to the MRI pre-procedure that also indicates improvement. Sadly reality is a different, unexplained thing.
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  14. #1004
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    Are you still able too flat bench after 3 years?

    Hi, I recently had some degenerative changes in my shoulder from what my MRI said, I am 22 years old. From what I've heard I don't really think it's going to get any better by just waiting. Powerlifting is basically my favorite thing to do, I just really need to know whether or not I will be able to still flat bench 3 years after the surgery. I am in no way afraid of going under the knife if it means I can preserve some hope for my future in powerlifting.
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  15. #1005
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    Originally Posted by Revivalarc View Post
    Hi, I recently had some degenerative changes in my shoulder from what my MRI said, I am 22 years old. From what I've heard I don't really think it's going to get any better by just waiting. Powerlifting is basically my favorite thing to do, I just really need to know whether or not I will be able to still flat bench 3 years after the surgery. I am in no way afraid of going under the knife if it means I can preserve some hope for my future in powerlifting.
    Shop around. The best surgeons have 4 month wait lists. Technology might be better later too. You don't want to wait till it gets so bad you can't wait for a good surgeon. Many surguries and especially surgeons can be risky or have bad outlooks. Not rare for people to end up worse depending on the surgury.
    Novice lifter who sticks to the basics 3x per week but likes to theorize about improvements while recovering.
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  16. #1006
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    Originally Posted by ncp237 View Post
    I am just 10 days shy of one year mumford procedure post op.

    I am worse off than prior to surgery, and don't believe I have shown any improvement in the last six months, so I am not hopeful that any healing is left to be made.

    Things that caused pain prior to surgery included weight lifting, carrying heavy backpack (I was into mountaineering and backpacking), and prolonged stress on the joint like when snowmobiling. I was otherwise able to live a pain free life, as normal activities did not bother the shoulder in the slightest.

    I now have regular ache in the joint on a daily basis. Leaning on it aggravates it, as does any real motion in the arm like running. It is tolerable and I've learned to live with it, but it is a life-changing disappointment to be saddled with.

    I have had an X-ray that shows a successful procedure with no anomaly, along with an MRI that was compared to the MRI pre-procedure that also indicates improvement. Sadly reality is a different, unexplained thing.

    Interesting how the image does not match the condition. I wonder if it is someone else's image, or if images just don't show a different kind of new issue caused by the surgery.

    I bet the surgeons know about the possible outcomes. Definitely sounds to me like a last resort type of thing, or one where you must trust not only the skill but also the intent of the surgeon.
    Novice lifter who sticks to the basics 3x per week but likes to theorize about improvements while recovering.
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