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  1. #61
    Registered User grebnehtor's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lcamino View Post
    I had my clavicle resectioned after multiple ac seperations. They took off upwards of an inch. In my case, I was back in the gym within about a month. Over time the front of my delt actually elongated a little to take the pressure off the joint. I lost a little range of motion, but was eventually able to return to competitive rugby and judo. They say I am in the 99th percentile in terms of positve result from the surgery. Before the surgery, I could not raise my arm above 90 degrees. They had to scoop out all the calcified ligaments beneath the clavicle. If you have to have a surgery this one isn't so bad. Be smart about coming back to the gym and pushing it too hard. Listen to the body, it will tell you how much is too much.
    Now unfortunately, I am trying to hold off a neck surgery because of a bulging disk, bone spurs and pinched nerve.
    An Inch!? You must have injured yourself terribly! My doctor took less than a cm off of mine!


    As of now I have full range of motion w/o hardly any pain. The popping and crunching noise is at a minimum too. However, it still hurts at the joint - it has only been three weeks today since my surgery. The doctor recomends that I wait three months total before going back to the gym or swimming. I am debating weather to cut my recovery time short and go back to the gym or just wait until I'm 100% pain free.
    Last edited by grebnehtor; 05-31-2007 at 06:28 AM.
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  2. #62
    Registered User lcamino's Avatar
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    It still pokes out a little.

    An entire inch and it still doesn't lay flat. As an athlete you are probably at an advantage for recovery. Your body is used to adjusting to varying levels of stress. You will adapt to it. Take it slow, don't rush back. Think of your body like a suspension bridge, a lot of things pulling and pushing in several directions at once. Any change requires finding a new balance. Let your body come to it naturally, don't force it. In the long run, you'll be happier that way.
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  3. #63
    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    FINALLY Recovered??!!

    Just came across this thread, for all of you youngsters. ;-) I'm 52 and had an Acronial and Clavicular Resectioning in Nov'06. I had developed bone spurs in the shoulder joint and worn down the bursa segment in the Clavicular Acronial ligament. So, the clavicle was banging into the Aconium and generating the spurs.

    The surgery was a mix of arthroscopy and open. They had to go through the top of the shuolder to really get to the claviculr bursa. The bursa in the shoulder was four times the correct size and ripped to shreds, so they removed it.

    I was back to work in two weeks, with some serious limits. I was a good boy and did all of the therapy exercises they threw at me. However, being male and having probably a bit too much testesterone for my common sense, I pushed it. The pain let me know when I went too far. I think the pushing it a bit helped. I was up to about 80% in about 4 months.

    Two nights ago, I felt a bit froggy and tried some incline dumbbell presses. Last timed I tried was about a month ago. I quit at 30lbs becuase of the pain. I threw three sets of 50lbs WITH NO PAIN.

    So, bottom line, it took about 6 months to really heal. Now, I can start to get a bit more serious about the chest work. And, I still do some of the therapy exercises, though quite a bit heavier than when I started. I don't need to go through this one, again.
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  4. #64
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    Hey dbrunner00 could you check out this post I posted the other day on here:

    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    I had some bad luck. The other day I was working security and did my absolute best to avoid any possible physical scenario. Well sure enough I had to physically restrain someone to stop them from assaulting a female staff member. Could not be avoided at all. I had to wrestle around and it lasted a couple of minutes. Immediately thereafter I felt my AC joint was EXTREMELY SORE AND INFLAMMED. Right after the incident I took the day off and went right to my doctor. He said all I probably did was cause the AC joint to become inflammed. He doesn't think I did any permanent damage and he doesn't think I did anything that will prevent me from returning to weightlifting or boxing one day. In fact he said there is no way I could've done permanent damage because he didn't repair anything when he did the last surgery. He said the reason why it was inflammed is because I used the arm very aggressively too soon (only 3 weeks post op). He said at this time there is no scar tissue present where the excised AC joint was so therefore the raw bone is rubbing up against the acromion with no cushioning in between. Also there is still raw bone there from where he cut.
    He said it takes a couple months for that scar tissue to form.

    Is my doc right...Did I just irritate and inflame it, or do you guys think I did permanent damage? What do you think?
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  5. #65
    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    Best two outta three??

    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    Hey dbrunner00 could you check out this post I posted the other day on here:
    Bad job to have with a bum shoulder, Crusher. I replied to your Private a bit earlier. But, From what I went through and what I know of skeletal anatomy, I'd have to agree with the Doctor. You're going to be a shoulder wimp for some time. It takes weeks for the shoulder to heal, completely. As far as structure, it's one of the most versatile joints you have, but it also takes more abuse. While a knee will take a pounding from running and such, it normally only takes it in one or two directions. The shoulder takes shots from every concievable angle. And, on the average, none of us are too gentle on it. Bench Presses and delivering a straight right come to mind.

    I'm assuming that you're going to therapy on this. The exercises seem wimpy, at first. But, when you start doing three sets of 50, it adds up really fast. Take your time. Let it heal, correctly. It's rough on the ego, I admit. But having your shoulder give out when you have an 80lb dumbell straight up is rough on your skull. Set priorities. ;-)
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  6. #66
    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    Talking Just another bit to add

    Been scanning through the previous posts. Most of us seem to have a similar link. Heavy contact sports. I have a history of Wrestling, Rugby, 5 styles of martial arts and 8 years military. I've blown the right knee, had a hernia and took out the shoulder. I can't blame the sports, but I also had a massive heart attack Aug '04 and a quintuple bypass. I'm 72" and 230lbs, down from 260, and 52. 'Course, looking at the track record of a few of you, I can't complain. A couple of you guys sound like rolling train wrecks. ;-)

    But, just to add to the mix, at my age, I know that I have to slow a bit. It's quite irritating. But, I have learned patience. Healing joint injuries takes patience. You need to put your ego in your back pocket and leave it there for a bit. You can't lift for a while, period. Crusher is really concerned about recovery time. Patience son, patience. I was somewhat concerned myself. But, healing is like bodybuilding. Set the goal, figure the plan and approach, set the schedule and execute. Since we're all active in this little passtime of ours, we all have a distinct advantage. Our metabolisms are ramped up, expecially compared to the average couch potato. We all heal much faster than the average, IF WE LET IT HAPPEN!! Building our joints takes time, just like building muscle.

    The pleasure we get from lifting makes us all anxious when we can't do it. We get tense and irritable. If something looks like it might keep us from our joy, we get antsy.

    Just to add another bit. Look to your diet. I had really good luck working with a high Protien, low Cal diet. Jack up the calcium and complex carbs. Stay away from the sugar and salt. I've learned to really listen to what my body tells. I developed a real taste for cold milk and tuna/pasta salads. ;-) May not help, but at least you eat well. ;-)

    OK, I'll stow the Soap Box. I'm several months ahead of most of you. Have patience. It will all come back.
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  7. #67
    Registered User lcamino's Avatar
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    Wisdom comes with age.

    I am not calling you old, only wise. Well said.
    If you have to be bald, don't be bald and fat.
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  8. #68
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    good thread


    Michael: Bros before hoes. Why? Because your bros are always there for you. They got your back after your ho rips your heart out for no good reason. And you were nothing but great to your ho, and you told her that she was the only ho for you. And that she was better than all the other hoes in the world. And then suddenly...she's not yo' ho no mo'.


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  9. #69
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    2 things:

    1) Would taking Glucosamine containing Chondroitin and MSM help with my recovery at all (would it possibly help with the formation of strong scar tissue where the excised AC joint was)?

    2) In the below diagram (that the poster above so-kindly displayed for us), can someone explain to me what they mean by "false joint"?

    [/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Crusher80; 06-02-2007 at 06:05 PM.
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  10. #70
    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    Still Here

    I'll take a shot at it. Anyone knows more feel free to take a whack at it.

    If I'm reading this right, the "False Joint" is the Acronialclavicluar ligament. It's attached between the Acronium and clavicle and is actaully tubular, or hollow. There is a small gel filled packet between the clavicle and acronium, inside the ligament. When the Clavicluar Resectioning is done, the ligament is split lengthwise and about 1cm (1/2") is removed. This has to be done because it's banging into the Acronium and causing aggrivation. In my case, it was helping form bone spurs in the shoulder. The ligament is then sewn back together and allowed to heal. The strength of the joint is actually in the ligament. Once it healed, I've found no difference in the shoulder motion or strength. Mine was dense enough that the Doctor couldn't really get to it by arthroscopy. He had to go through the top of my shoulder. Ugly scar, but the Vitamin E seems to be taking care of it. The bone spurs that are pointed out are not unusual. I believe the condition is called Acronial Arthrosis. Man, is my Latin getting good or what? It happens quite often to those of us that have more shoulder than ass. It's the condition that put me into surgery. We're used to heavy lifting and this action aggrivates the joint, so the condition is not uncommon.

    Good image, Fleshka. Very definitive and not too complicated.

    As far as the Glu/Cho/MSM, I eat a fair amount of it. I have Basal Joint Arthritis in my right hand. The thumb joint is literally dissolving. I'll need to back under the knife to get that one repaired, as well. Train Wreck, anyone? Getting old is a pain in the ass. Try to avoid it in the future. ;-)

    Anyway, back to the Glu/Cho/MSM. I'm fully aware that this is not going to cure my condition. However, I'm convinced that it's buying me some time before the scalpel. If I stop using it, my hand starts to flare up and scream at me in about two weeks. I tried changing to a different brand(one with shark cartlidge) and my hand started screaming, again. I went back to the NOW brand and the pain stopped in about two weeks. There is a lot of discussion among the differenet medical groups as to whether it works or it's a placebo. I'm in the corner that thinks it works. Being an engineer, by trade, I work with data. I stop using it or change brands, I get pain. I go back on the NOW brand and the pain goes away. I call that pretty clear data. ;-) Biased, but hey, I'm good with it. ;-) Some people I've talked to have had similar experiences with other brands and mixes. I think you may have to experiment a bit to find which one works with you. As I said, I've have good luck with the NOW brand and I use it 2 caps in the morning and two in the evening. The suggested dosage is one cap, three times a day. I may have to raise mine a bit. I'm doing a lot of yard work and it occasionalt flares up on me. I can take Naproxeme Sodium, but I try to keep that to a minimum. If you get one that works, I think will help with the healing.

    Anyway, getting to be a long winded old goat, aren't I? ;-) So, Crusher, get your Ice Pack, yet?

    And, for general comment, I'm about 35 miles West Of Boise, Id. The high today was 102, in my front yard. I'm too young to fry. (Sorry, bad pun, but I had to take it)
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  11. #71
    Registered User grebnehtor's Avatar
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    We have enough information on the AC Joint to write the most through orthopedic text book ever. Anyway, update on my condition - three and a half weeks since surgery and I have range of motion. My condition is still sore, but I'm thinking it will take months for me to get better. There is still stiffness in my movements and somewhat joint noises.
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  12. #72
    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    Better

    Originally Posted by grebnehtor View Post
    We have enough information on the AC Joint to write the most through orthopedic text book ever. Anyway, update on my condition - three and a half weeks since surgery and I have range of motion. My condition is still sore, but I'm thinking it will take months for me to get better. There is still stiffness in my movements and somewhat joint noises.
    Yeah, I went through the same thing. IMHO I think this is caused by some deep level swelling in the joint. You're still forming the scar tissue. Once the joint fills out and the deep swelling goes away, I think the sound effects will stop.

    I had the surgery in mid Nov'06. I was pretty sore for the first month. Then, I got really sore if I pushed too hard. And I did, quite often. My Ice Pack got to be my best friend. I even took one in my travel bag. I'm a Field Engineer so I get a fair amount of hotel time. Had the hotel freeze it up, if there was no fridge in the room. Also let them keep my food refridgerated. I got pretty sick of eating out after the first year. Rather carry my own and eat in the room with a bit of TV or a good book.

    Gonna do a little testing, today. Headed down to the Gold's out here. It's a Chest day. I think I may grab a spotter and try a little benching, just to check for pain. Nothing too crazy. I'm still a bit paranoid about the shoulder. If I can make it to 205 with no pain, I'll be ecstatic. But, I'm going to start at about 135. I'm crazy, not stupid. ;-)
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  13. #73
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    Also, have any of you fellas who have had this surgery ever trained in boxing or MMA after your surgery? Basically what I'm asking is, will I ever be able to throw a punch again pain free? Will I ever be able to train in boxing again? That means throwing lots and lots of punches on a 150 lbs. heavybag 5 days a week. Will I ever be able to do that again? If my surgery was on May 7, 2007, what month will I be able to go back to full speed ahead-no holding back-balls to the wall boxing training?
    Last edited by Crusher80; 06-03-2007 at 12:19 PM.
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  14. #74
    Registered User grebnehtor's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbrunner00 View Post
    Being an engineer, by trade, I work with data.
    Neat - I chose that major as my undergraduate studies as well. I however, work in a factory. Today I went swimming (only 150 yards which is nothing at all) and I didn't stress or feel pain-pain. It was still unconfortible to swim and I didn't gun it either. I am only 20 and I hope this joint fills with the scar tissue!

    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post

    [/QUOTE]

    Crusher - I really think this image is over exagerated. I believe the area of bone removed is much, much smaller than that diagram reperesnts.
    Last edited by grebnehtor; 06-03-2007 at 04:17 PM.
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  15. #75
    Doug B. dbrunner00's Avatar
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    Talking It's a Damned Good Day

    Just got back from the Chest Workout. Pressed 185 on the bench for 10. NO PAIN!!!! Got 5 sets of inclines with a pair of 55lbs. NO PAIN!!! Tried 60lbs but the shoulder didn't want to cooperate at the first 5deg of below parallel. NO PAIN!! NO PAIN!!! NO PAIN!!!! DAMN, I feel good!!!!

    Crusher, just a quick IMHO. I do an exercise that uses a motion similar to a Twi Kwan Do punch. I use a cables to resist on the punch and the withdrawal. Works well for me for Pecs and shoulders, but I use it mostly for core and hips. I can throw about 80lbs on this. I think you'll be just fine as far as punches. It will just take some time. Hell, you're still trying to finish off puberty. You've got plenty left on your calendar. You will heal. Just don't outsmart yourself and jump into it too quickly. If you do, you will still heal. But, you'll set yourself back when you tear something up and have to let the new injury heal as well.

    NO PAIN!!!! NO PAIN!!! NO PAIN!!!!

    Just keep stretching it, gently. Use the ice packs and be a wimp for awhile. You'll be fine.

    About 24 weeks Post Op.
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  16. #76
    Registered User grebnehtor's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbrunner00 View Post
    Just got back from the Chest Workout. Pressed 185 on the bench for 10. NO PAIN!!!! Got 5 sets of inclines with a pair of 55lbs. NO PAIN!!! Tried 60lbs but the shoulder didn't want to cooperate at the first 5deg of below parallel. NO PAIN!! NO PAIN!!! NO PAIN!!!! DAMN, I feel good!!!!

    Crusher, just a quick IMHO. I do an exercise that uses a motion similar to a Twi Kwan Do punch. I use a cables to resist on the punch and the withdrawal. Works well for me for Pecs and shoulders, but I use it mostly for core and hips. I can throw about 80lbs on this. I think you'll be just fine as far as punches. It will just take some time. Hell, you're still trying to finish off puberty. You've got plenty left on your calendar. You will heal. Just don't outsmart yourself and jump into it too quickly. If you do, you will still heal. But, you'll set yourself back when you tear something up and have to let the new injury heal as well.

    NO PAIN!!!! NO PAIN!!! NO PAIN!!!!

    Just keep stretching it, gently. Use the ice packs and be a wimp for awhile. You'll be fine.

    About 24 weeks Post Op.
    Congrats man! Don't do stupid **** to mess it up anymore!
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  17. #77
    Registered User Crusher80's Avatar
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    I still have some clicking when I do certain motions. Does anyone know if this is normal for 4 weeks post op?

    Also, I asked this question the other day:

    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    In the below diagram (that the poster above so-kindly displayed for us), can someone explain to me what they mean by "false joint"?

    I emailed my doctor and he said the "false joint" is simply scar tissue that fills in where the excised AC joint was. He said after a few months the post surgery inflammation will be gone, the raw bone where he cut off will be healed, and the scar tissue will be formed and firm. He said after the scar tissue forms it will no longer hurt when I do activities with the shoulder (like punching, wrestling, weightlifting, etc.). He said the scar tissue is relatively harmless and should cause no complications (inflammation, irritation, etc.).

    Do you guys that have had this procedure done agree with the doctor?
    Last edited by Crusher80; 06-03-2007 at 05:00 PM.
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    Agree completely with the Doctor. It's the same procedure that most of us on this thread just went through. The clicking is normal, believe it or not. Like my last post, I'm finally past the major pain. I did the benches this morning. I have a little soreness already. But, I expected this. I haven't done the exercise in over a year. I could have gone more, but I was quite happy to stop at 185. No need to push it, yet. The main thing is to maintain the mobility. Use form and function, worry about power and endurance, later. It will come by itself. My surgery was Nov 20,'06. It's taken this long. However, the pain I had before was quite dibilitating and nearly crippling. It's been a bit of a pain, but I'm quite happy I had it done. As of now, I have no inflamation, irritation or real pain. My strength is quickly coming back. I hope to be back up to benching 245 by mid August.
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    dbrunner00 I might have asked you this before but I'll ask you again: Could you do a boxing workout right now? I'm talking hitting a 150 lbs. heavybag 5 days a week. Could you do that PAIN FREE right now or would that not be possible? I'm just trying to set some realistic expectations as to if I'll ever be able to box again PAIN FREE.

    I realize I'm always going to feel it a little bit, but I would really like to get back to boxing training one day with relatively no feeling of shoulder irritation or discomfort. Is this possible?
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    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post

    I emailed my doctor and he said the "false joint" is simply scar tissue that fills in where the excised AC joint was. He said after a few months the post surgery inflammation will be gone, the raw bone where he cut off will be healed, and the scar tissue will be formed and firm. He said after the scar tissue forms it will no longer hurt when I do activities with the shoulder (like punching, wrestling, weightlifting, etc.). He said the scar tissue is relatively harmless and should cause no complications (inflammation, irritation, etc.).

    Do you guys that have had this procedure done agree with the doctor?
    That's exactly what my doctor says. He also said the integrity of the scar tissue may be compromised or take longer to form correctly if you try to do harsh things too early.
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    A Good Right

    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    dbrunner00 I might have asked you this before but I'll ask you again: Could you do a boxing workout right now? I'm talking hitting a 150 lbs. heavybag 5 days a week. Could you do that PAIN FREE right now or would that not be possible? I'm just trying to set some realistic expectations as to if I'll ever be able to box again PAIN FREE.

    I realize I'm always going to feel it a little bit, but I would really like to get back to boxing training one day with relatively no feeling of shoulder irritation or discomfort. Is this possible?
    OK, I'm a bit old and damaged. But, I do have a backround in Tai Kwan Do, Jeet Khun Do, Wing Chung, Moi Tai and Kali. No belts, but enough to hold my own. If I were to try right now, cold, I could drive my bare fist through several boards, easily. And, the only concern I would have would be splinters.
    I'm old and wrinkled, but I'm still functional. ;-) For me, the concern wouldn't be my shoulder, but my wrists. But, I think that depends on style. A straight, deep right, starting in the supine by the ribs and twisting to contacting at head level would cause me no pain in my shoulder. Missing the target and over extending would be my concern. But, then again, I'm not 25 anymore.

    Jokes aside, I think you'll be fine. The "False Joint" is created by strenghtening the existing ligament and filling it with scar tissue. By the by, I think that drawing we saw earlier is actually pretty acurate as to how much material is actually removed.

    The ligament is what gives the joint it's strength. It comes back thicker and heavier because of the trauma and scarring. IMHO, I think your main concern if MMA and boxing are in your goals, is to keep it limber. Do the stretching exercises for the entire joint, not just the AC Damage. And, do it on BOTH shoulders. That is unless you would like a matching scar on the other side.
    ;-)

    Bottom line...Don't stress. It will come. Have patience and do the therapy exercises, religiously. Watch your diet and eat clean. And, don't expect to be completely pain free for at least 5 months. It took six months for me, but I've got a few years on you and my metabolism isn't as fast as yours. That's provided you're eating clean. I would guess, and I am not a Doctor, but I would guess that you could start on the heavy bag at about 15 to 18 weeks out. But, I would suggest working the speed bag, first. But, not until at least 8 weeks out. Doing the speed bag is less stress on the shoulder, but since you have to hold the arm up, it will help work the Delt region. And always remember that the Ice Pack is your closest friend, next to your physical therapist. I've pushed the shoulder a couple of times to the point that I could not move it without pain, at all. It actually swelled up. 30 minutes with the Ice Pack and I was functional, again. The recovery gets faster with better healing.

    What kind of exercises does your Therapist have you doing, anyway? I wasn't allowed to lift anything over 2 lbs for quite a while. And, with what they had me doing, that was quite enough. After 40 or 50 Reps, that hurts!!!!!
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    Originally Posted by grebnehtor View Post
    He also said the integrity of the scar tissue may be compromised or take longer to form correctly if you try to do harsh things too early.
    grebnehtor, I asked my doc about that and here was his response in an email I got from him:

    "The scar tissue may take longer to form correctly if you do harsh things too early. However I disagree with the statement that "the scar tissue may be compromised if you do harsh things too early". That is not true. It would be true if it were a repaired muscle or tendon (like a rotator cuff or pec repair) that had to be formed in a way that is consistant with the repaired muscle or tendon. Doing harsh things too early will only cause more inflammation and it will make the scar tissue take longer to form. But when the scar tissue does form, it will be formed and healed just as firm and strong as if it was formed on time. So basically, if you do harsh things too early it will take (just for example) 6 months to form instead of 3 months."

    What do you guys think? Is my doc right or is grebnehtors doc right? I would like to know the answer to this.
    Last edited by Crusher80; 06-03-2007 at 07:23 PM.
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    Terminology

    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    grebnehtor, I asked my doc about that and here was his response in an email I got from him:

    "The scar tissue may take longer to form correctly if you do harsh things too early. However I disagree with the statement that "the scar tissue may be compromised if you do harsh things too early". That is not true. It would be true if it were a repaired muscle or tendon (like a rotator cuff or pec repair) that had to be formed in a way that is consistant with the repaired muscle or tendon. Doing harsh things too early will only cause more inflammation and it will make the scar tissue take longer to form. But when the scar tissue does form, it will be formed and healed just as firm and strong as if it was formed on time. So basically, if you do harsh things too early it will take (just for example) 6 months to form instead of 3 months."

    What do you guys think? Is my doc right or is grebnehtors doc right? I would like to know the answer to this.
    I think it's a matter of terminology. If there is no further damage, the healing rate is stable. However, if you re-injure it, you have more damage to deal with or the damage that has healed is damaged, again. Let it heal, thoroughly and correctly. You're not really doing new damage if you stress it, you're re-damaging the area that has already done some healing. You're basically undoing all of the healing you've accomplished.

    Let's face it, we're our own worst enemies. We want it back NOW. If we push it, we undo what we've accomplished and get the schedule for healing pushed back.

    Take your time. You'll be fine. By Christmas you'll be either back in the ring or the DoJong and throwing punches, just like before.
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    Originally Posted by dbrunner00 View Post
    I think it's a matter of terminology. If there is no further damage, the healing rate is stable. However, if you re-injure it, you have more damage to deal with or the damage that has healed is damaged, again. Let it heal, thoroughly and correctly. You're not really doing new damage if you stress it, you're re-damaging the area that has already done some healing. You're basically undoing all of the healing you've accomplished.

    Let's face it, we're our own worst enemies. We want it back NOW. If we push it, we undo what we've accomplished and get the schedule for healing pushed back.

    Take your time. You'll be fine. By Christmas you'll be either back in the ring or the DoJong and throwing punches, just like before.
    OK, I'll cut to the chase. I have done some foolish things with the shoulder since my surgery 4 weeks ago. And when I tried those things, needless to say, it hurt! I didn't tear a rotator cuff or a pec or anything. My doc says I just inflammed and irritated the area of the excised AC joint. I just want to know if because I did those things will I no longer be able to heal as good had I NOT done those things? That's what I want to know. Is there still hope for mother nature to still build quality firm scar tissue where that excised AC joint was...or am I screwed?
    Last edited by Crusher80; 06-03-2007 at 07:49 PM.
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    Foolishness???

    Foolish things. I wouldn't be surprised if all of us did something stupid or foolish while we were healing. If we haven't yet, we probably will. We're Male. :-)

    Anyway, you have to look at the work that was done to understand it. If you had a Clavicular Resectioning, nothing was ever moved out of place. The AC joint is actually a tube. It's a ligament, but it's hollow. It wraps around the Clavicle. The Clavicle is not directly attached to the Acronium. It's linked with the ligament. The procedure opens the ligament. It gets split open along the side. The ends of the ligament are not disconnected. The section of bone that was removed was attached inside the ligament. So, when it's pealed back, there is damage and trauma. But, there is still a good chunk of ligament that is left attached. If your surgery was like mine, they also removed the packing. There is a part called a Bursa, in the shoulder. I don't know the term for the part in the ligament. It might be the same. Mine was destroyed, so it was removed. This is more like a shock absorber than anything else. It's part of what the scar tissue replaces.

    The incision can get torn. I don't think mine was stitched together. I think the Doctor used Super Glue. I'm serious. There were no sutures. The entire area has been cut up. When you stress it, you pull apart the areas that have been healing. This causes swelling and pain. And, it has to become knitted, again. This prolongs the healing. Now, if you repeatedly damage the ligament, I think it may cause thin areas in the ligament. I think these will heal as well. But, it will take longer and the ligament may be a bit weaker than it's supposed to be, for awhile. If you can still move the arm, IMHO, I don't think you've done anything irrepairable. You're going to be OK. You've simply re-injured the incisions. So, they've swelled a bit and they hurt. Use the Ice Packs. This will force the lymphatic fluids out of the area and reduce the swelling, reducing the pain and discomfort. If you had actually torn something or it had become disconnected, you'd know it. We would be talking extreme pain and inability to move the arm.

    Put the Macho on the back burner. Baby that shoulder for a bit. I got lucky. I'm right handed and the work was on my left shoulder. Listen to what your body is telling you. If it hurts, don't do it. If it's a therapy exercise, you will need to eventually succede. Work into it.

    You've got goals and you feel that this is putting them at risk. I understand that. But, you're going to be OK. It will take time. Once the shoulder heals, it may very well be stronger than it was, in some cases. But, it will be stiff if you don't take care of it. Continue to stress it and re-injure the incisions and there may be too much scar tissue. This may limit motion and drastically slow your forward punch. Follow the Therapists and your Doctor. Listen to your body. You can't push the injury. Keep it to a gentle but firm nudge to move things along. Force the healing through the exercises, but not to the point of re-injury.

    You know, I really need to put a handle on this Soap Box I keep getting on. It will be much easier to carry. ;-)
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    So you're saying I should be OK? Well, that's comforting. Maybe I'm worrying a bit too much.

    They removed my bursa too becuase, just like yours, it was inflammed. How long from the day of surgery until it grows back? And when it does grow back, will it be inflammed again?

    Here is what I use to ice my shoulder:

    http://www.wisdomking.com/product70223.html
    Last edited by Crusher80; 06-03-2007 at 09:31 PM.
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    Not coming back

    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    So you're saying I should be OK? Well, that's comforting. Maybe I'm worrying a bit too much.

    They removed my bursa too becuase, just like yours, it was inflammed. How long from the day of surgery until it grows back? And when it does grow back, will it be inflammed again?

    Here is what I use to ice my shoulder:

    http://www.wisdomking.com/product70223.html
    As I understand it, the Bursa does not grow back. This is one of the things that the scar tissue back fills. It's also one of the reasons that the shoulder hurts and feels like it's grinding. You're doing a bit of bone on bone. Mine was inflamed and ripped to shreds. The entire Acronial socket looked like it was filled with black sand. It's supposed to be bleach white. The Doctor showed me pictures of it. It looked like shredded scallops with red sauce and too much pepper. Really ugly. At least I found out that I'm very photogenic, internally. Lord knows I'm too burly on the outside. ;-)

    The Bursa is a form of Shock Absorber. The scar tissue will work, but not as well. So far, I haven't noticed any real difference in either form or function. Especially since I finally crossed the point where there is no pain. My shoulder rotates and flexes just as well as it used to. And I'm pretty agile for an old fart.

    And, for drill, I used an item called a MediWrap. Rite Aid carries several different types. I looked through thier site and didn't see the one I use. Most any drug store will carry them. But, yours ices a specific area, or you can keep moving it around. The wrap pretty well covers the entire shoulder, front and back. This allows deeper penetration of the cold and helps reduce the deeper inflamation. Mine has a pack about 6X14". It comes with a cloth bag that has velcro straps. I can slip it on and just leave it, as long as I don't move around. Besides, if it hurts enough for the pack, I really don't feel like moving much. ;-) I normally put it on and sit down with my laptop and check E-Mail, sites, news, etc. After about 30 minutes, I'm good. Mine ran about $16.00. For me, it was far more effective. It might be something to look into. You're going to need it for the first few months.
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    Wink Ice Packs

    Did a little digging. Go to www.walgreens.com an search under cold pack. I found one that is about the same as what I used. I think this one may even have the velcro straps.

    http://www.walgreens.com/store/produ...id=prod1426832
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    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post

    What do you guys think? Is my doc right or is grebnehtors doc right? I would like to know the answer to this.
    At this point, we get to medical opinion... It's difficult to say if anyone has a definitive answer. I realized the somewhat impreciseness of prediction when researching this procedure.

    Originally Posted by Crusher80 View Post
    OK, I'll cut to the chase. I have done some foolish things with the shoulder since my surgery 4 weeks ago. And when I tried those things, needless to say, it hurt! I didn't tear a rotator cuff or a pec or anything. My doc says I just inflammed and irritated the area of the excised AC joint. I just want to know if because I did those things will I no longer be able to heal as good had I NOT done those things? That's what I want to know. Is there still hope for mother nature to still build quality firm scar tissue where that excised AC joint was...or am I screwed?
    I would just sit back man and let things heal. It should take you about 12 weeks before you start "testing" ****.
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    Originally Posted by dbrunner00 View Post
    As I understand it, the Bursa does not grow back. This is one of the things that the scar tissue back fills.
    My doctor told me the bursa DOES grow back. I'll ask him again when I see him.

    Also, I have 3 questions for you guys:

    1) During my distal clavicle resection 4 weeks ago my doc removed my bursa. My doc said that the bursa grows back. However, dbrunner00 said the bursa doesn't grow back and scar tissue fills where the bursa was. What is the real story with this? Does the bursa grow back? And if it does, is it grown back by now (at 4 weeks post op)? If not now, how long until it grows back? If dbrunner00 is right (that scar tissue replaces the bursa), will the scar tissue do just as a good job as the bursa?

    2) In 4-6 weeks I will start doing my RC/scap training exercises. Is there any exercises I can do that specifically target the AC joint area so that I can strengthen the scar tissue that will be formed where the excised AC joint was? Is their any way to strengthen that area so I can firm up the scar tissue?

    3) For the next 4-6 weeks I will completely baby the arm. I will no longer do anything foolish. I will not get into scuffles or pick up dumbells or throw any punches. I will ice the shoulder many times throughout the day and I will continue to take Motrin during this time. I'm hoping by doing this that this will enable all the post surgery inflammation to subside, the bone to heal, the bursa to grow back healthy, and for scar tissue to lay down and firm up where the excised AC joint was. In your professional opinion, if I do this for the next 4-6 weeks, will I than be able to start my RC/scap training exercises relatively PAIN FREE? Is there a chance if I do this for the next 4-6 weeks that alot of my discomfort will be down and alot of healing will have happened?

    I could really use the help fellas.
    Last edited by Crusher80; 06-04-2007 at 03:00 AM.
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