Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 33
  1. #1
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline

    DOMS/AMS/Lactic Acid Build-Up

    Muscle Soreness

    I'm sure many of you know delayed onset muscle soreness (Has an acronym - DOMS), acute muscle soreness (AMS), and the burning sensation that you feel through/during the exercises.

    What causes muscle soreness?
    In very simple terms, in order to build strength you must overload the muscle. By overloading the muscle you cause micro-tears, when the muscle heals it becomes stronger. Movements that cause muscle soreness have been shown to produce localized damage to the muscle fibers. Chemical irritants such as histamine are released from damaged muscles and can irritate pain receptors in the muscle. Also, muscle damage often causes a slight swelling in the muscle tissue which creates enough pressure to stimulate these pain receptors. However, it has been shown that some swelling may persist even after the muscle soreness has disappeared. So, it is thought the pain receptors either gradually adapt to the swelling or to some other factors present.
    Also it was shown that muscle soreness happens during eccentric part of lifts (negative lifts). An example would be when you do bicep curls, you stretch out (lengthen) your muscle while contracting it.

    What causes DOMS?
    Although scientists aren't 100% sure about it, it is said (This was shown as a valid statement) that delayed muscle soreness is due to microscopic tearing of the muscle fibers. People who are new to exercise or carry out an exercise programme which is more intense than they are used to, more often than not, suffer from DOMS. But not only beginners, a person of any other fitness level can suffer from DOMS too. This can be due to drastically changing your workout routine, or over-loading the muscle with the weight.
    In addition to microscopic tearing, swelling may take place in and around a muscle, which can also contribute to delayed soreness. Such swelling increases pressure on the neighboring structures, resulting in greater muscle pain and stiffness. Eccentric muscle contractions tend to cause both microtearing and swelling.
    Although your muscles hurt experiencing the delayed soreness, there is no permanent damage associated with DOMS. DOMS ususally happen within 12-48 hours after the workout, and exceeds for 3-5 days. In extreme cases, if that soreness doesn't go away within 7 days and/or exceeds 7 days, contact the doctor.

    Some people say that muscle soreness is when your muscles grow. This statement is false. Muscle soreness doesn't in any way have relationship with protein synthesis (muscle growth).

    So, should I train while my muscles are sore or/and experiencing DOMS?
    If the muscle soreness is minor, then you can train. In any other cases when your muscles hurt when you contract them, you should not train, if you do - this might cause over-training. For all of those who want to know what overtraining is, read Travis Stenerson's article on it at http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...=overtraining.

    What causes AMS?
    Acute muscle soreness (Has an ancronym - AMS) is experienced during the "pump" of the muscles. It usually disappears within a couple of hours after a workout. It is due to blood over-flow in the muscles. It usually makes our muscle a bit bigger but our muscles take its normal shape after the AMS is over. AMS doesn't have any relationship with protein synthesis neither.

    What causes lactic acid build-up?
    Lactic acid build up is most commonly associated with the intense burning pain felt in your muscles after an intense effort. Recently, a lot of attention has been focused on reducing lactic acid build so you can exercise at a higher intensity for a longer time and improving performance. For more info on lactic acid build-up, read my article at "Post Your Own Articles" Section of those boards called "Carbohydrate Process 911". You'll find it there.

    For those of you who didn't figure it out yet, lactic acid build-up also doesn't have any effects on protein synthesis.

    How can I eliminate the DOMS?
    • Stretch - there's not a great deal of physiological support for stretching as a way to eliminate the cause of soreness or repair the tissue damage, but it may make you feel better temporarily. The goal is not to increase flexibility, but to take the muscles through a comfortable range of motion.
    • Move - physical activity tends to temporarily eliminate the muscle soreness after a workout. It may be difficult to begin, but you'll feel better while you're doing it. Keep the intensity low.
    • Massage - muscle massage has received a great deal of support as a way to help muscles recover.
    • Hot tub it - another popular method for recovery, this brings not only relief but a feeling of relaxation as well.
    • Evaluate your program - occasional discomfort after a workout is not uncommon. However, severe pain, or intense soreness on a regular basis may indicate that your workout is inappropriate for your body's adaptation capabilities. Back off on intensity if necessary to ensure you don't over-train or get injured.

    Conclusion
    I'll repeat it again, muscle soreness doesn't have any effects on protein synthesis. And for all of you who has been scared of muscle soreness can forget about the fear. Muscle soreness doesn't have any negative effects on you unless this soreness exceeds for a long time. An example would be when you need to contact your doctor is when DOMS surpasses 7 days. And you're not supposed to be training while your muscle are sore, unless it is a minor soreness.

    Sincerely,
    Jean
    Last edited by Jean Schernoff; 04-21-2002 at 05:29 PM.
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    Moderators please make this a sticky so when newbies come with questions about muscle soreness, they can see this thread and figure out for themselves.
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Registered User Mossma's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2002
    Posts: 245
    Rep Power: 224
    Mossma has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Mossma is offline
    Nice post.......simple and clear. Just the way I like it.
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    Thank you. It will be in Post Your Own Articles Section soon.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Registered User Big H's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Posts: 8,723
    Rep Power: 20784
    Big H has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Big H has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Big H has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Big H has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Big H has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Big H has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Big H has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Big H has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Big H has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Big H has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Big H has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    Big H is offline

    Cool

    Your wish is my command Jean.
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    Thank you Big H.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    PM me any questions that you have, and then I'll create a Q&A Post in here answering your questions. If I don't get enough questions, I won't post it.

    Edit: Any stupid questions or questions that have already been answered in the article will be ignored.
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Physiotherapist Fresch's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2001
    Location: Wollongong, NSW, Australia
    Posts: 4,682
    Rep Power: 6211
    Fresch is a name known to all. (+5000) Fresch is a name known to all. (+5000) Fresch is a name known to all. (+5000) Fresch is a name known to all. (+5000) Fresch is a name known to all. (+5000) Fresch is a name known to all. (+5000) Fresch is a name known to all. (+5000) Fresch is a name known to all. (+5000) Fresch is a name known to all. (+5000) Fresch is a name known to all. (+5000) Fresch is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Fresch is offline
    I have to find another article showing that lactic acid buildup does not appear to be a cause of muscle fatigue. It is some just published research from Australian scientists who were able to peel the membrane of cells and check what was in there! I'll add when I can.
    The science is out there!
    www.movementandperformance.com.au
    https://www.facebook.com/the.gym.physio/
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    Thanks Fresch!
    I will be glad to see it.
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    Member aztman's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2002
    Age: 43
    Posts: 291
    Rep Power: 226
    aztman has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    aztman is offline
    I believe Fresch is correct. The current understanding is leaning towards lactic acid being helpful as an energy source rather than a harmful byproduct of traning.
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    Registered User RetiredMod's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2001
    Posts: 0
    Rep Power: 0
    RetiredMod is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) RetiredMod is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) RetiredMod is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) RetiredMod is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) RetiredMod is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) RetiredMod is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) RetiredMod is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) RetiredMod is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) RetiredMod is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) RetiredMod is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) RetiredMod is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    RetiredMod is offline
    First nice post Jean.
    Originally posted by Fresch
    I have to find another article showing that lactic acid buildup does not appear to be a cause of muscle fatigue. It is some just published research from Australian scientists who were able to peel the membrane of cells and check what was in there! I'll add when I can.
    Do you mean muscle fatigue or why people stop a set? I've always had a theory of my own that lactic acid is just sort of a warning to the body to stop doing the exercise but has no bearing on whether or not you can proceed really, it's just that there is discomfort so most people when lactic acid buildup gets bad they stop, hence why mental discipline is a big advantage so you can push through this barrier.
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    Thanks everyone. I never said lactic acid is harmful, aztman.
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    Member aztman's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2002
    Age: 43
    Posts: 291
    Rep Power: 226
    aztman has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    aztman is offline
    Jean,
    My comment in regards to lactic acid was more directed towards most people's perception of the metabolite. Not anything you directly said.
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    Originally posted by aztman
    Jean,
    My comment in regards to lactic acid was more directed towards most people's perception of the metabolite. Not anything you directly said.
    Oh, okay. Sorry - I was confused.
    Reply With Quote

  15. #15
    Member Travis Stenersn's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2002
    Location: Ontario
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,798
    Rep Power: 1031
    Travis Stenersn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Travis Stenersn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Travis Stenersn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Travis Stenersn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Travis Stenersn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Travis Stenersn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Travis Stenersn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Travis Stenersn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Travis Stenersn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Travis Stenersn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Travis Stenersn is a jewel in the rough. (+500)
    Travis Stenersn is offline
    I'm interested in hearing more about the lactic acid thing from Fresch and Aztman! Please point me in the direction of further reading!


    Nice post Jean! This question has gotta come up every couple of days=)
    Reply With Quote

  16. #16
    Member big rob's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: USA
    Posts: 414
    Rep Power: 0
    big rob is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) big rob is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) big rob is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) big rob is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) big rob is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) big rob is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) big rob is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) big rob is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) big rob is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) big rob is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) big rob is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)
    big rob is offline
    great post jean!

    but i have a question, should i expect the soreness i've been getting to eventually stop over a long period of time? I'm not completly sure, but i think you wrote that doms is caused in part by the pain receptors not being used to the workout. So maybe after a while, they will get used to it and the soreness should probably stop right?
    i'm talking about being 20 steps ahead of everybody in this world... i'm talking about only being 25 years old, just on point and game tight, like making my $200,000 a year legally, then hustleing out another $50,000 in my spare time, i'm talking about the first impression you might get of me is me rolling up in $2000 suits with 20" arms straight benching 400, with rolexes, 20's on the escalade, just on point and game tight..
    Reply With Quote

  17. #17
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    They will get adapted to it after some time, but if you over-load yourself, soreness is going to be felt in the muscles again.
    Reply With Quote

  18. #18
    Registered User healthy n_fit's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2002
    Location: United States of America
    Posts: 3,049
    Rep Power: 4615
    healthy n_fit is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) healthy n_fit is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) healthy n_fit is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) healthy n_fit is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) healthy n_fit is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) healthy n_fit is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) healthy n_fit is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) healthy n_fit is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) healthy n_fit is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) healthy n_fit is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) healthy n_fit is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    healthy n_fit is offline
    Great article!
    Reply With Quote

  19. #19
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    Thank You!
    Reply With Quote

  20. #20
    Member WestideIron's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: California
    Age: 33
    Posts: 77
    Rep Power: 224
    WestideIron has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    WestideIron is offline
    Nice work Jean. Very professional.
    "Pain is only weakness leaving the body"
    "Failing to plan is like planning to fail."
    "The foundation of success is intense desire."
    "Sometimes, less is more."
    "Better to take a chance and lose, than to wonder what might have been."
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."
    "You'll always miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
    "It’s lack of faith that makes people afraid of meeting challenges, and I believed in myself."
    Reply With Quote

  21. #21
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    Thnak you, thank you, thank you.

    Whoever posts again, thank you so I don't have to say thanks again.
    Reply With Quote

  22. #22
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    When I post new article, will this one be unstickied? I care less. But thanks for making this one a sticky too.
    Reply With Quote

  23. #23
    MISC SUPERVILLAIN DYnomyte001's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2001
    Location: Margaritaville
    Posts: 3,839
    Rep Power: 2631
    DYnomyte001 is just really nice. (+1000) DYnomyte001 is just really nice. (+1000) DYnomyte001 is just really nice. (+1000) DYnomyte001 is just really nice. (+1000) DYnomyte001 is just really nice. (+1000) DYnomyte001 is just really nice. (+1000) DYnomyte001 is just really nice. (+1000) DYnomyte001 is just really nice. (+1000) DYnomyte001 is just really nice. (+1000) DYnomyte001 is just really nice. (+1000) DYnomyte001 is just really nice. (+1000)
    DYnomyte001 is offline
    I'll leave it up, it does not matter to me. It matters what the people say ( if there is too many stickies).
    Eternal Creatures are not so prudent.



    Member since Nov 2001
    Reply With Quote

  24. #24
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    Okay, people decide.
    Reply With Quote

  25. #25
    Banned Jean Schernoff's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: In a world beyond you.
    Age: 37
    Posts: 1,792
    Rep Power: 0
    Jean Schernoff has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Jean Schernoff is offline
    Someone unsticky it.

    It gets on my nerves.
    Reply With Quote

  26. #26
    Banned milkl0ver's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2002
    Location: above the hoop
    Age: 37
    Posts: 817
    Rep Power: 0
    milkl0ver has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    milkl0ver is offline
    But how come I experience a gain in strength and vertical leap, after I experience DOMS?
    Reply With Quote

  27. #27
    Registered User works4dreams's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Location: Canada
    Posts: 22
    Rep Power: 0
    works4dreams has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) works4dreams has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) works4dreams has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) works4dreams has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) works4dreams has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) works4dreams has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) works4dreams has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) works4dreams has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) works4dreams has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    works4dreams is offline
    DOMS are usually experienced due to emphasis on eccentric movements, but new studies have shown that experiencing DOMS can prevent further DOMS for 6-9 months. there might be some potential for using eccentric training for pain prevention in my opinion, i ve started to apply it alot it my routine now
    Reply With Quote

  28. #28
    Raw Nats 2014 comeatmebro DDon1996's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2010
    Posts: 16,455
    Rep Power: 18840
    DDon1996 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) DDon1996 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) DDon1996 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) DDon1996 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) DDon1996 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) DDon1996 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) DDon1996 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) DDon1996 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) DDon1996 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) DDon1996 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) DDon1996 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    DDon1996 is offline
    Originally Posted by works4dreams View Post
    DOMS are usually experienced due to emphasis on eccentric movements, but new studies have shown that experiencing DOMS can prevent further DOMS for 6-9 months. there might be some potential for using eccentric training for pain prevention in my opinion, i ve started to apply it alot it my routine now
    Epic bump, you derphead.
    Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159714881&p=1213186101

    PowerliftingtoWIN.com




    "All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

    -- Paracelsus
    Reply With Quote

  29. #29
    Please, stay safe. Wiley87's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2009
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 3,682
    Rep Power: 2816
    Wiley87 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Wiley87 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Wiley87 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Wiley87 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Wiley87 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Wiley87 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Wiley87 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Wiley87 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Wiley87 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Wiley87 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Wiley87 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    Wiley87 is offline
    9 year bump?

    Sh!t's old as dinosaurs.
    Photochops on the Misc are my highlight.

    I'm 18, do I have potential? (Not srs)
    Reply With Quote

  30. #30
    gotta can VanKid's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2010
    Posts: 2,643
    Rep Power: 129
    VanKid has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) VanKid has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) VanKid has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) VanKid has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) VanKid has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) VanKid has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) VanKid has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    VanKid is offline
    I don't think DOMS is what you want. I think DOMS is a sign of damage yes. obviously it is. To repair a road you either tear up the whole road or you patch it...both do the same **** but one takes less time and doesn't disturb everything right? I have noticed that when I work out to the point that I get DOMS, I am also very much weaker for a while afterwards and yeah. its about stimulation not destruction. I don't believe your muscles tear and then get repaired/bigger. A toddler turns into a lil kid and then a teenager right? sometimes you get growing pains but nothing liek doms right? I think the whole micro-tears= growth is straight broscience
    Im a nutbag and have a screw loose but im sstill not as bad as you
    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts