Some people say, don't drink milk for cutting? Why not?

[ko_kidd]

Title says it all.

[Tractortje]

Your skin will get thicker and it will make you look less defined. I think this only counts for tight ass bodybuilders who want to go to 5 a 6 % BF. If you aren't such a person, don't worry too much about the milk and your skin gettin thicker

[TeamRamrod]

Milk contains alot of sugars and sugars EQUAL insulin spikes. Insulin spikes EQUAL fat gain. You do not want this while cutting. Ditch the milk

~TR

[thejumpoff]

actually, milk is fine for you.

it does say 12 g sugar per cup... but it's slower digesting than oatmeal!

go with skim and don't worry about it... i drink 2-3 cups a day.

[TeamRamrod]

Originally posted by thejumpoff
actually, milk is fine for you.

it does say 12 g sugar per cup... but it's slower digesting than oatmeal!

go with skim and don't worry about it... i drink 2-3 cups a day.

WHAT??

Who cares how slow it digests, why should anyone want to ignore 12g of sugar in only one serving of milk? Except for pwo nutrition, i dont think people should have 12g of total sugar in the rest of their diet. Drinking skim milk will give u an insulin spike as a previously stated. Do some research on this(controlling insulin), its crucial to dieting and very underlooked.

~TR

[rmatic1]

the sugar in milk(lactose) dosent effect your insulin like other sugars do, do some research your self. Many people use it as a pre-bed meal because of this , and mainly because of the casein protein (slow digesting)

[DeezGst]

IMO <----notice

Unless you are trying to cutt down a very low BF. DRINK IT. Hate to break the news but a little sugar isn't going to kill you and Milk has a lot of great tributes as well. There is a great article on the main page about Milk. Some people are waaaay to hardcore about what you can and can not eat, this turns normal people away from a proper diet all together....If you eat this I say you will gain 10 million lbs..*slight exaggeration* Yes I agree it's not the best thing but telling someone it's just horrible because of this or that scares the avg person who just wants to loose a few lbs.

I agree cutting out sugar and processed foods are best..and if you are trying to compete then you should be more vigilant about what goes in your mouth, however for a normal dieting person yes you can drink Milk even with the 12G of sugar (god forbid). Your not going to contract some sort of illness or gain 10lbs overnight from 1 glass of Milk. Just do it in moderation. KEY WORD MODERATION. Don't down a whole jug, have a glass and make sure to add it in with your totals for the day. Over induldging on processed foods and sugar is what causes fat gain not a lonley 12G of sugar. Yes there are things that are better for you but god forbid someone drinks 1 cup of milk they are gonna gain 1lb....in fact this is not the case... unless they are over thier maintiance level for the day. Just make sure you add it in with your totals for the day and don't over induldge. The problem is when people drink 3 glasses but only count 1...this is where measuring and portion control come into play. But then again this is just my opinion...it's been a bad day..sorry it's just a vent. :-)

Derek

[bakers11]

So what insulin spike are you refering too?

GI RATINGS

Glucose, the food most rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream, has the highest GI value: 100. Generally, the lower the value of a food, the better. High GI = 70 or more; medium GI = 56-69; low GI = less than 55.



Cherries — 22
Grapefruit — 25
Skimmed milk — 32
Dried apricots — 33
Porridge oats — 42
Baked beans — 48
Banana (ripe) — 54
Popcorn — 55
Orange juice — 57
Honey — 58
Pizza — 61
Bagels — 72
Ryvita — 75
Brown rice — 76
Cornflakes — 77
Jelly beans — 80
Baked potatoes — 85


GI rating of 32! All sugars are not created equally, lets all say this together now, all sugars are not created equally. Lactose is the sugar found in milk, milk also contains a good amount of protiens. The combination of these protiens and Lacotse provide a base for a very low GI food. Its GI is less than some oatmeals, how many people on this board would say stop eating oatmeal? Do your own research and do not just criticise a food because it has the dreaded sugar in it. They are quite different and come in different packages.

Jelly beans = NO
Skim Milk = YES

[TeamRamrod]

It has been researched that GI ratings are not to ALWAYS be followed. II (Insulin index) is becomming alot more popular.

And I quote "... foods like yogurt and milk had relatively low-glycemic indices, but very high insulin indices. White and brown rice, on the other hand, had high-glycemic indices, but low insulin indices." -John Berardi

Note how milk was listed here as having very high insulin indices. Notice also that brown rice was on the list has high GI, but brown rice is one of the best complex carbs u can consume for ur first pwo meal.

I would like to see a link to a technical article were milk gets the exception of not causing insulin spikes.

~TR

[porkpie]

Originally posted by TeamRamrod
And I quote "... foods like yogurt and milk had relatively low-glycemic indices, but very high insulin indices." -John Berardi

bump.

[Gloggy]

Aaargh. I must admit, I have always been a very strong proponent of drinking milk. My successes using milk have been pretty good. I have generally viewed the Glycemic Index of milk as a good indicator that drinking milk was good for me. So, when I read the replies above, I thought I'll find a bunch of studies that disprove what you were saying about my favourite beverage. Unfortunately, I didn't. I found the reverse. In fact, I found several studies that seem to indicate that milk produces a *MASSIVE* insulin response. So massive that we're looking at the equivalent of eating white bread. We all know what spiking insulin does. Other than post workout, it's damn bad! I'm not going to stop drinking milk just yet. I have phenomenal results with milk and attribute a lot of my gains to drinking it. However, the evidence does seem to be stacking up in terms of the insulinemic response to drinking milk .

Here are the studies:

http://www.lub.lu.se/luft/diss/tec_6...8_transit.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entre..._uids=11641749

[porkpie]

Originally posted by Gloggy

Here are the studies:

http://www.lub.lu.se/luft/diss/tec_6...8_transit.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entre..._uids=11641749

Good links. Thx.

[ViolatorJF]

I have a small amount of milk with my cereal in the morning, but after sleeeping for 6-8 hours it's not that bad. Then I have a cup before lifting and a cup after, each mixed with protein. If you drink milk at certain times, it's fine.

[bakers11]

So basically we can all find some type of scientific method, GI rating/insulin index that shows one thing or another. Basically, I have used skim milk as part of my diet every day for 10 months now and have seen tremendous gains as well as losing 105 pounds. I have to say that if milk provides such huge insulin spikes I would not have had the weight loss I have experienced as I typically drink skim milk 3 times a day. This would mean I would be setting up my body for fat storage everytime I down a glass of skim milk. I just do not believe that to be the case. I agree there is contradictory information out there and we all have to make up our minds on it. For me skim milk and fat free milk products in my diet have done wonders, try it on yourself and see. Then make your own decision.

[TeamRamrod]

Originally posted by bakers11
So basically we can all find some type of scientific method, GI rating/insulin index that shows one thing or another. Basically, I have used skim milk as part of my diet every day for 10 months now and have seen tremendous gains as well as losing 105 pounds. I have to say that if milk provides such huge insulin spikes I would not have had the weight loss I have experienced as I typically drink skim milk 3 times a day. This would mean I would be setting up my body for fat storage everytime I down a glass of skim milk. I just do not believe that to be the case. I agree there is contradictory information out there and we all have to make up our minds on it. For me skim milk and fat free milk products in my diet have done wonders, try it on yourself and see. Then make your own decision.

You lost all that weight and its great, I highly commend you. BUT, when ur that much over weight, anything can produce great results ( ex. not drinkin regular soda ). When i reply, i am talkin to people who are truly below 17% ( what i mean by truely is either have an accredited professional due a 7point caliper test or water displacement ). THIS is when little things like insulin spikes from milk matter. The lower in bf% u go, the more and more it becomes important. Hell, when i was over 20% bf, all i cared about was calorie defecit. Now that I got to a lower bf and stopped losing weight, i started doin massive research, re-structured my thought on nutrition and the fat is peeling off again.

~TR

[thejumpoff]

Originally posted by TeamRamrod
WHAT??

Who cares how slow it digests, why should anyone want to ignore 12g of sugar in only one serving of milk? Except for pwo nutrition, i dont think people should have 12g of total sugar in the rest of their diet. Drinking skim milk will give u an insulin spike as a previously stated. Do some research on this(controlling insulin), its crucial to dieting and very underlooked.

~TR

yes, but remember... cals in vs. cals out


milk is definitely ideal for prebed meal to give your muscles some slow digesting protein


an insulin spike is not the end of the world... there are certain things that spike your insulin that have benefits that are too good to ignore such as fruit.. orrrr milk.

[thejumpoff]

Originally posted by DeezGst
IMO <----notice

Unless you are trying to cutt down a very low BF. DRINK IT. Hate to break the news but a little sugar isn't going to kill you and Milk has a lot of great tributes as well. There is a great article on the main page about Milk. Some people are waaaay to hardcore about what you can and can not eat, this turns normal people away from a proper diet all together....If you eat this I say you will gain 10 million lbs..*slight exaggeration* Yes I agree it's not the best thing but telling someone it's just horrible because of this or that scares the avg person who just wants to loose a few lbs.

I agree cutting out sugar and processed foods are best..and if you are trying to compete then you should be more vigilant about what goes in your mouth, however for a normal dieting person yes you can drink Milk even with the 12G of sugar (god forbid). Your not going to contract some sort of illness or gain 10lbs overnight from 1 glass of Milk. Just do it in moderation. KEY WORD MODERATION. Don't down a whole jug, have a glass and make sure to add it in with your totals for the day. Over induldging on processed foods and sugar is what causes fat gain not a lonley 12G of sugar. Yes there are things that are better for you but god forbid someone drinks 1 cup of milk they are gonna gain 1lb....in fact this is not the case... unless they are over thier maintiance level for the day. Just make sure you add it in with your totals for the day and don't over induldge. The problem is when people drink 3 glasses but only count 1...this is where measuring and portion control come into play. But then again this is just my opinion...it's been a bad day..sorry it's just a vent. :-)

Derek

good post.

i agree, many people are way too anal about what they eat. if you're competing, then yes... following your nutrition to a t is important... but if you're not competing... something like an insulin spike from skim milk will not make or break you... hell, if you're working out hard you'll see results... regardless of if you decide to spike your insulin once a day or not.

[simplecanibus]

the sugar in milk (lactose) isn't that bad for you, but the pastuerization process changes the lactose in milk into beta-lactose, which digest a lot faster than raw milk, which i'm sure non of you drink. but besides that, if you're cutting, why not maximize results? set goals and follow. don't try to make excuses so you can reach your goal a little easier. do things the hard way, and do things to the point where you have the exact results you want. don't cut half ass. once you get to about 8%bf you need all the edges you can get, and cutting out milk is one of them. and if you're trying to cut, milk before is not a good choice. a slow digesting protein supplement would be ideal, but not milk if you're cutting. no way. don't tell me you don't have the will to cut milk out of your diet for a mere 8-10 weeks.

[user34566548717114]

i'm at like low 7% bodyfat and i drink at least 3 cups a day of milk

Milk is getting a bad name like fructose now lol





carbs = friend

just be more active

[hachigo]

Originally posted by dvv
i'm at like low 7% bodyfat and i drink at least 3 cups a day of milk

Milk is getting a bad name like fructose now lol





carbs = friend

just be more active

I'm gonna listen to this guy cuz i saw a pic of his abs

[TeamRamrod]

Originally posted by dvv
i'm at like low 7% bodyfat and i drink at least 3 cups a day of milk

Milk is getting a bad name like fructose now lol





carbs = friend

just be more active

cals in vs. cals out is outdated IMO. Not all calories are created equal

Do you have pics with a time stamp on them to prove it??

[thejumpoff]

Originally posted by simplecanibus
the sugar in milk (lactose) isn't that bad for you, but the pastuerization process changes the lactose in milk into beta-lactose, which digest a lot faster than raw milk, which i'm sure non of you drink. but besides that, if you're cutting, why not maximize results? set goals and follow. don't try to make excuses so you can reach your goal a little easier. do things the hard way, and do things to the point where you have the exact results you want. don't cut half ass. once you get to about 8%bf you need all the edges you can get, and cutting out milk is one of them. and if you're trying to cut, milk before is not a good choice. a slow digesting protein supplement would be ideal, but not milk if you're cutting. no way. don't tell me you don't have the will to cut milk out of your diet for a mere 8-10 weeks.

dude, drinking milk will not keep you from getting to 8% bf...

lol@milk no way if you're cutting... an insulin spike from milk won't do jack **** to hinder your gains... it might, but it won't be noticeable... cals in vs. cals out... be active, etc...

if i were a die hard bodybuilding is life type of guy, maybe i'd cut milk, because it will make a difference ON STAGE... but i'm not, so i'll keep my milk...

[simplecanibus]

lol, remember, some people are ecto's and can eat whatever. but, as long as you don't drink milk as your liquid source at meals, it's not bad. most people just drink milk with all their meals, forgetting milk as an actual food too, not just a drink. this is what needs to be remembered most of all.

[E-Sizzle]

I drink a little bit of 2% milk for breakfast (the water at my cafeteria tastes like ass) and a small amount of skim for my protein shakes. It has more sugar in it than water. One thing I find that can help is dilute the milk also. If you need 16 oz of fluid for your drink, pour in ~8 oz of milk and 8 oz of water. I do this and barely notice the difference.

Just a suggestion. I will cut off milk entirely when I'm done with my ON Whey. Chocolate protein + water = **** in terms of taste.

[ko_kidd]

SORRY!!!

Forgot to say I was talking about SKIM milk, edited...

[user34566548717114]

Originally posted by TeamRamrod
cals in vs. cals out is outdated IMO. Not all calories are created equal

Do you have pics with a time stamp on them to prove it??

you talk alot of smash


i've been posting my progress on bber.com for over a year and i am a bio chem major, specific towards metabolism regulation.....you can play up in the clouds where milk and carbs are bad for you, when you have some pics to back up your talk, i'll pay attention to what you have to say

go look up my pics if you really wanna see i just posted a quad shot not 2 weeks go

[TeamRamrod]

Originally posted by dvv
you talk alot of smash


i've been posting my progress on bber.com for over a year and i am a bio chem major, specific towards metabolism regulation.....you can play up in the clouds where milk and carbs are bad for you, when you have some pics to back up your talk, i'll pay attention to what you have to say

go look up my pics if you really wanna see i just posted a quad shot not 2 weeks go

How is talkin "smack" defined by someone stating their differing opinion and asking someone to back up theirs? I am very new here, but I thought forums are for people to discuss topics that not they might not agree on so everyone can benefit from reading and learning.

I asked for your picture, because It always seems to be people mistake what their real bf% is. I as a matter of fact, did go look at your pictures, and you are nice and cut.

I base sharing my opinion on things ive personally researched and tried that worked. For instance, I am on my first solid cutting cycle (natural) that started late jan. I was never an athlete, all i cared about was drinkin hardcore and some other bad things my road led me down, SO when i started cutting the first time, I just did calorie deficit and cardio. I lost hella weight, but lost the little muscle i had in the first place from never lifting since i never really played sports, except baseball which was a joke at our school. SO when i started researching for this cuttin cycle i am on, I wanted to lose fat as quick as possible with retaining all my muscle so i dont lose any more. I am still on my cutting cycle (hopefully for only another 3-4 weeks) but I can tell you, it has been a success in my eyes, but dropping almost 30lbs of fat in these couple months without losing muscle. How do i know this, because I first started lifting when i begain this cuttin cycle in january and all my lifts havea went up tremendously. THEREFORE, when i am giving my info, which i agree tends to go against some peoples opinions, im givin it from the standpoint of people who were never in the best shape to begin with, so they need to take every little detail in account to lose their unwanted fat.

I will, as a matter of fact post pictures when I am down to a body fat I am happy with so i can begin my first bulk. If you want me to see my progress pics thus far, i will happily send them to you.

[TeamRamrod]

BTW, im not tryin to be a d*ck just cause i question peoples theory behind their thoughts. It what helps me learn. If someone comes back at me with their theory, and Im like man, thats some good sh*t, ive just learned somethin new and ive benefited. No one should take what other people have to say for granted without questioning it atleast alittle.

I questioned your diet progress and you came back at me with ur response. Thats how it works. Talkin smack has nothing to do with it. You definately had to put in alot of hardwork and dedication to get where u are. But for extreme dieting, I still hold my own opinions thus far on the topic.

~TR

[user34566548717114]

it was just the way you asked like "do you have a pic with a time stamp on it" which i felt was hostile but i see there is no problem here


i respect your thoughts i just feel that certain foods get a very bad rap when in reality they are quite beneficial for you


in the end it all boils down to whatever works for the person there is no argueing that i do many things against the common dieting style

[TeamRamrod]

Agreed.

The reason I asked for a timestamp, lol, is because ive seen people busted out on just jumpin to other bodybuilding forums and snatchin some pics sayin its them. You, obviously arent one of these people and you showed ur proof. Thats all I ask is for people to back their stuff up, which u did.

~TR