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Thread: Piracetam?
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04-13-2004, 08:42 PM #61
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04-13-2004, 09:08 PM #62
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04-13-2004, 10:09 PM #63
I always like to have "crossover" in my supps, so that i can take care of my drug habbit as cheap as possible
I noticed that B5 was mentioned to increase the effectiveness of choline. I also saw some other daily things that I already pop: alcar/ala.
So if the stack looked like this, what would it be missing:
Piracetam
ALCAR 2g/day
R-ALA (ratio w/ alcar)
alpha-GPC
how is that for a bare bones stack? Is L-tyrosine required here? What could i add that is cheap and synergistic, or is this going to be worth the $$ as is, assuming that it has an effect on me.
People say that i could be really smart or really stupid, but they're not sure. I have an amazing ability for comprehension but no memory whatsoever. For example, i'm a biochemical engineer and it is second nature to me (because the concepts follow fundamental laws, and we use references), but my toughest subjects are anatomy and such. My best friend from k-12 grades referred to me as the dumbest genius alive, or the smartest idiot ever (i don't remember, of course). either way, i would beat the snot out of him for that. in college i did fine but it was obvious that i was usually lost, didn't know where any class or building was (the day i graduated i could name maybe 1 or 2 buildings). i'd really like to see what i could do with a memory...
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04-14-2004, 05:39 AM #64Originally posted by Window Licker
I, too, am interested in where you're finding alcar for $70/kg.
Originally posted by stabmaster
So if the stack looked like this, what would it be missing:
Piracetam
ALCAR 2g/day
R-ALA (ratio w/ alcar)
alpha-GPC
how is that for a bare bones stack? Is L-tyrosine required here?
in my personal experience l-tyrosine is not required - you could try it and see if it adds anything for you though. it's good preworkout and may act as a slight stimulant, but you have to be careful not to overdo things either. if you take too much **** you may overstimulate yourself to the point where you can't concentrate anymore - just keep a good balance.
-5
edit: some people also rave about how rho is synergic with the basic stack above. you could try it - i also did but have not noticed a noticeable effect yet. i'd suggest you start with the basic stack and then just add one component at a time to it if you wish, so you can see if the extras actually add anything for you.Last edited by Number 5; 04-14-2004 at 05:51 AM.
I'm not selling out, I'm buying in...
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04-14-2004, 09:14 AM #65
yeah i was thinking that l-tyr might be overdoing it. from what i recall it's a seratonin precursor (or some ****). i'm already taking SNRI, SSRI, and dopamine agonist.
and i drink an awful lot of green tea, but the ECGC is not super orally available. my dad has a subscription to these green tea patches which provide transdermally equivalent to like a few hundred cups of green tea per day. i swipe a few per week from him. freebies are always good
oh also- number 5- i appreciate you going to the added effort to email me sicnce apparently you couldn't get me on PM. i don't know what the problem is. my inbox may have been full.
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04-14-2004, 09:50 AM #66Originally posted by stabmaster
yeah i was thinking that l-tyr might be overdoing it. from what i recall it's a seratonin precursor (or some ****). i'm already taking SNRI, SSRI, and dopamine agonist.
http://forum.avantlabs.com/?act=ST&f=41&t=8161&
in general, it's always a good idea for everyone who wants to take these supps to check that they have no adverse interactions with any meds they take.
-5I'm not selling out, I'm buying in...
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04-14-2004, 04:06 PM #67Originally posted by KillerATP
as for piracetam it may restores the availability and function of muscarinic and NMDA receptors, most probably through a modulation of the psychico-chemical properties of the neuronal membrane such as the membrane fluidity.
I know that some newer drugs work in one of two ways- either by amplifying AMPA receptor's response to glutamate and thus facilitating depolarization or by increasing CREB by inhibiting enzymes that degrade cyclic AMP
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04-14-2004, 05:52 PM #68
Can anyone compare the effects of substituting Aniracetam with Piracetam?
I know it's much more expensive, so I wonder if it is worth it?
I haven't done too much research into the mechanism comparison between the two. I imagine since they are both pyrrilidinone derivatives, that they work similarly?"Blood, Sweat, and Tears doesn't mean crying while you struggle to put your tampon in." ~dsade
ThermoGum...Just Chew It!
---ACCELERATED gains * increased MASS = unstoppable FORCE--- Know your physics for maximum performance.
"Don't you know there ain't no Devil, there's just God when he's drunk" -Tom Waits
"The only question is...which is to be Master? That is all." - Lewis Carroll
"Who is John Galt?" - Ayn Rand
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04-14-2004, 06:01 PM #69
Maybe I can use it to help with lifting and to improve my SAT scores. I really need help on the second one more.
Everyday when I look at myself in the mirror, I get pissed of because I want to be bigger and I dont like my body. I train, eat, sleep, wake up the next day and start over again. I need to grow!
CF PM Log: http://www.forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3543177#post3543177
Satur8/CF Log: http://www.forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=275709
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04-15-2004, 09:26 PM #70Originally posted by dsade
Can anyone compare the effects of substituting Aniracetam with Piracetam?
I know it's much more expensive, so I wonder if it is worth it?
I haven't done too much research into the mechanism comparison between the two. I imagine since they are both pyrrilidinone derivatives, that they work similarly?
Again PRAM IS THE WINNER.
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04-16-2004, 01:00 AM #71
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04-16-2004, 01:06 AM #72
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04-16-2004, 01:08 AM #73
3) Be respectful of the other members. Racism, bigotry & sexism will not be tolerated. We do allow frank discussion with the other members, and like to have a laugh, but some things are not appropriate. In the supplements forum, we are here to discussion nutritional and sports supplements. This is not the place to discuss politics, sex or religion. Repeatedly flaming, insulting and attempting to cause fights with other members will not be allowed and can result in a ban. Please be respectful to the board, the members and moderators. We are all here to learn and teach others what we know. There is a misc and a sex forum for off topic posts and topics unrelated to supplements. If you have a problem with another board member, please PM a moderator about it.
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04-16-2004, 01:11 AM #74Originally posted by dsade
Can anyone compare the effects of substituting Aniracetam with Piracetam?
I know it's much more expensive, so I wonder if it is worth it?
I haven't done too much research into the mechanism comparison between the two. I imagine since they are both pyrrilidinone derivatives, that they work similarly?David Tolson
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04-16-2004, 01:11 AM #75
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04-16-2004, 01:12 AM #76Originally posted by KillerATP
3) Be respectful of the other members. Racism, bigotry & sexism will not be tolerated. We do allow frank discussion with the other members, and like to have a laugh, but some things are not appropriate. In the supplements forum, we are here to discussion nutritional and sports supplements. This is not the place to discuss politics, sex or religion. Repeatedly flaming, insulting and attempting to cause fights with other members will not be allowed and can result in a ban. Please be respectful to the board, the members and moderators. We are all here to learn and teach others what we know. There is a misc and a sex forum for off topic posts and topics unrelated to supplements. If you have a problem with another board member, please PM a moderator about it.David Tolson
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04-16-2004, 01:17 AM #77
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04-16-2004, 01:24 AM #78
Aniracetam
CHEMICAL FORMULA C12H13NO3
Aniracetam is a nootropic, developed by Roche Pharmaceutical, which acts on the central nervous system (CNS). It has a reputation for increasing intellectual activity, improving immune function, increasing resistance to infection, and generating feelings of health and well-being, particularly in the elderly. The recommended aniracetam dosage is usually 1500 mg per day, taken in two 750 mg doses, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. It is sold in both tablet and powder form, generally of 750 mg each. Some users experience insomnia from an afternoon dose of Aniracetam. These users may find it better to take both daily doses in the morning rather than taking the second dose after noon. Any usual side-effects should be discussed with your doctor.
NAME : Piracetam
CHEMICAL FORMULA C6H10N2O2
Piracetam is similar in molecular structure to the amino acid pyroglutamate. Piracetam and pyroglutamate have the same base chemical structure, the 2-oxo-pyrrolidine, but they differ by a side chain. Pyroglutamate is 2-oxo-pyrrolidine carboxylic acid, and piracetam is 2-oxo-pyrrolidine acetamide.
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04-16-2004, 01:40 AM #79
Re: DMAE
Sorry, I know this is pretty O/T, I disagree with a lot of this
Originally posted by RippedUp
1. What are they and where do they come from?
DMAE - Dimethylaminoethanol - is an antioxidant and a precursor of the neurotransmitter Acetycholine (ACh).
Acetycholine is responsible for feelings of well-being and relaxation. It plays an important role in the onset of a dreaming state. DMAE is available in supplement form. It can be consumed orally, or used as a cream topically.
2. What does it do and what scientific studies give evidence to support this?
Although the science has not yet reached a conclusive, supportable, position on the exact function(s) of DMAE, anecdotal evidence suggests that DMAE supplementation is very beneficial. For example, anecdotal evidence indicates that DMAE may be appropriate for cosmetic purposes, due to its ability to reduce facial sag. DMAE may be helpful in improving memory and learning ability.
DMAE supplementation has been known to increase energy levels, as well as alleviate the symptoms typically following the consumption of large quantities of alcohol. Supplementing with DMAE can also offset the symptoms associated with long-term use of antipsychotic drugs.1 It may also have positive benefits for dreaming and mood stabilization.2,3
Regarding tardive dyskinesia (the "symptoms of antipsychotic drugs" being referred to), after the initial open studies, it was quickly realized in placebo-controlled studies that DMAE did not have an effect, and may even worsen the condition.
3. Who needs it and what are some symptoms of deficiency?
There are no known symptoms of deficiency. Everyone can benefit from supplementing with DMAE. Populations that may benefit most from the supplementation of DMAE include: The Elderly, Athletes, persons on antipsychotic medication, children suffering from down syndrome and attention deficit disorder (ADD), and individuals who wish to use DMAE for its cosmetic applications.
Elderly persons are at an increased risk of developing depression. The onset of depression in elderly populations can be caused by a number of factors. DMAE can help alleviate or prevent symptoms of depression because of its ability to stabilize emotions and increase energy.
Increased energy levels are something that athletes require. High-intensity physical activity is very demanding. By supplementing with DMAE, athletes may notice shorter recovery times and improved athletic performance. DMAE also plays a role in muscle contractions (by being a precursor to ACh).4
Person suffering from psychiatric conditions, children with attention deficit disorder and persons with down syndrome, may find that, due to its ability to stabilize moods and improve behavior, DMAE is a worthwhile substance to add to their treatment programs.
4. How much should be taken? Are there any side effects?
DMAE is non-toxic and is safe for human use.
Numerous side effects from DMAE treatment have been reported in the literature. These include gastrointestinal disturbances, bad body odor, drowsiness, sedation, retardation, confusion, increased blood pressure, depression, and hypomania; some of these are causes of frequent withdrawal [20, 31-33]. Airborne DMAE is associated with a variety of adverse events (some of which have been reported in humans exposed to high concentrations in a label printing plant), primarily visual disturbances (blurry, halo, and blue-grey vision, corneal opacity, and decrements in visual acuity and contrast sensitivity) and skin irritation [34-36]. However, it is doubtful that oral supplementation will lead to these effects. DMAE also has potential teratogenic effects due to the fact that it inhibits choline uptake [10]. In one study, rat pups fed a choline-deficient diet containing DMAE died within 36 hours of birth [37].David Tolson
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04-16-2004, 01:45 AM #80Originally posted by KillerATP
Aniracetam
CHEMICAL FORMULA C12H13NO3
Aniracetam is a nootropic, developed by Roche Pharmaceutical, which acts on the central nervous system (CNS). It has a reputation for increasing intellectual activity, improving immune function, increasing resistance to infection, and generating feelings of health and well-being, particularly in the elderly. The recommended aniracetam dosage is usually 1500 mg per day, taken in two 750 mg doses, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. It is sold in both tablet and powder form, generally of 750 mg each. Some users experience insomnia from an afternoon dose of Aniracetam. These users may find it better to take both daily doses in the morning rather than taking the second dose after noon. Any usual side-effects should be discussed with your doctor.
NAME : Piracetam
CHEMICAL FORMULA C6H10N2O2
Piracetam is similar in molecular structure to the amino acid pyroglutamate. Piracetam and pyroglutamate have the same base chemical structure, the 2-oxo-pyrrolidine, but they differ by a side chain. Pyroglutamate is 2-oxo-pyrrolidine carboxylic acid, and piracetam is 2-oxo-pyrrolidine acetamide.David Tolson
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04-16-2004, 01:49 AM #81
Sorry dont know how or see the quote botton?
Aniracetam is an analogue of piracetam, it can improve memory recall, reaction and detail. Like all of piracetam's analogues less aniracetam is required, (i.e. milligram dose to Kilogram body weight). But like piracetam, aniracetam has been found to be virtually non-toxic, with very few side effects and contraindications.
In tests, aniracetam has proven to be one of the most potent nootropics currently available, this is because of its ability to protect AMPA brain receptors and nerve cells.
http:www.imminst.org/forum/index.php...T&f=6&t=237&s=
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04-16-2004, 03:46 AM #82
Piracetam is similar in molecular structure to the amino acid pyroglutamate. Piracetam and pyroglutamate have the same base chemical structure, the 2-oxo-pyrrolidine, but they differ by a side chain. Pyroglutamate is 2-oxo-pyrrolidine carboxylic acid, and piracetam is 2-oxo-pyrrolidine acetamide.
Basically, Piracetam is Pyroglutamate analog, which is side-product of
Glutahtione synthetic pathway. Glutamate is a neurotransmitter, but in
overdose it's a horribly toxic one. In brain injury from seizures and
hypoxia it's probably the neurotranmitter most responsible for neuronal
death (glutamate sensitive channels let too much calcium into neurons,
which wrecks their mitochondria). Not something I personally would
fool with too much, for too long.
Also Piracetam is contraindicated in patients with kidney problems.(Creatinine
clearance <20ml/min)
In one case, concomitant use with t3 and t4 thyroid hormones has caused
confusion, irritability, and hearing problems.
Stay away from alcohol with it too.
And yes the LD50 is higher than that of Nacl. So in that sense PIR is safer than salt.
BUT STILL I think its best to "cycle" it.
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04-18-2004, 12:12 PM #83Originally posted by KillerATP
Correct, however piracetam is a bit faster acting. Aniracetam effects may be noticed after 60 days of use, becoming more pronounced after 4 months.
Again PRAM IS THE WINNER.
http://www.erowid.org/smarts/anirace...m_basics.shtml
Do you ever say anything that isn't just ripped from somewhere else?David Tolson
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04-18-2004, 04:23 PM #84
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04-18-2004, 04:31 PM #85Originally posted by shpongled
As far as I know they have similar mechanisms but aniracetam will concentrate in different areas and it has a shorter half-life. It also has some additional effects, related to AMPA modulation. It definitely has a more pronounced effect than piracetam. I am working on an article on this, I should have it done within a week or two, hopefully in time for the next M+M.Aniracetam/Pyritinol/Pikamilon
http://home.comcast.net/~axiombiologicals/
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05-14-2004, 10:26 AM #86
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05-14-2004, 10:43 AM #87
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08-18-2004, 09:23 AM #88
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08-18-2004, 11:42 AM #89
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08-23-2004, 07:50 AM #90
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